I have been very jealous of those who have taken their positions as to the rightness or wrongness of US involvement in Iraq. Myself, I never have been able to take a clear stand. Overall I hoped we were doing the right thing and that some good would prevail. In the end I still don't believe we can truly assess the US action in Iraq till history is written.

I have heard on numerous occasions that American public opinion is swayed on the day to day events. I frequently find myself in such a position. I am constantly reminding myself that I shouldn't do that, to try and stay as objective as possible.

Recently my efforts to keep daily events in check are becoming increasingly difficult. When the photo's of abused Iraqi prisoner's surfaced, I felt shame and sadness. Not just for the fact that American soldiers and civilians committed these acts but for those prisoners. There is no justification for such action. America has apologized and promised that the perpetrators would be prosecuted. Today it has been reported,Video 'shows US man beheaded', where one of the Islamic terrorists say’s this:
I still have tears in my eyes. I am, by nature, an empathetic person. Stories such as this make me extremely upset. The actions of these terrorists have served their purpose in making me sick to my stomach but I realize that running away is not the answer. My clearer mind reminds me that we can not act as Osama notes in his Declaration of War


Question for Debate

Now that the terrorists have taken the ammunition provided by the torture of Iraqi prisoner’s and used that to justify their even more atrocious acts of violence what can we as a nation do? Can we fix the wrong without caving into these terrorists?

I do not feel that these people needed any ammunition.

This type of activity has happened and will continue to happen no matter what we do and or say.

Unfortunately there are several examples, such as the civilian contractors, Daniel Pearl, the PLO police in Hebron, today in Gaza, etc.

The fundamentalists need no excuse to murder. Pulling a Clinton (running away) is no option at this point. Acting like they do is no answer either. We have to find a way inside and hunt the animals down and string them up like the rabid monsters they are

You really think they needed ammunition?

This is not the first time this, and other groups have beheaded innocents. They have flown airplanes into buildings killing 3000 plus innocents. They have placed bombs in trains killing hundreds

Fix what?

I don't want to sound insincere, but I can not beleive, after the recent news of the Woman and her 4 children being brutilly killed by this same type of pond scum, that we would even being exploring "a fix".

Do you think that those with this mentality want this "fixed". The only "fix" acceptable to these types is the fall of the Western world.

No, I am not willing to offer "the fix"

Red

I agree that the terrorists do not need any ammo but we certainly don't need to provide them with any. Are you suggesting that we ignore their reasoning or excuse? While killing an innocent person is beyond reproach is it ok, for example, that our country only resorted tying a dog leash on a naked man? Are court marshals, reprimands, Presidential and Rummy apologies enough to show that we don't condone such behavior? Don't you think we should address our own acts of inhumanity? We certainly can't claim the moral high ground.

Now that the terrorists have taken the ammunition provided by the torture of Iraqi prisoner’s and used that to justify their even more atrocious acts of violence what can we as a nation do? Can we fix the wrong without caving into these terrorists?

Yes.

Its as hard as anything America has ever attempted, and the shoddy leadership of the USA has only proved to be a shackle about the nations legs, but that is the nature of conflict and war.

America can fix Iraq. It can do so by supporting the people of Iraq, and most especially those democratic forces which will come to the fore if given the opportunity. Punish those who violate the innocent. Take heed from your ancestors and uphold the democratic tradition.

As truly awful and cruel as this decapitation was, do not let it influence you into thinking that the venture is a lost cause. 25 million people depend on America having the will to continue. Don't let that man, and all the others have died in vain. If anything is worth fighting for, then this is what it is. Freedom from terror. Freedom from persecution.

War is not won by hardware, or courage, or strength. War is won by will power.

America IS stronger than the forces of disorder who have ranged themselves against her. Don't let this rabble with their lost cause win yet another victory over you.
Take heart from the strength you all have and follow your convictions.


editted to add



Yes you can.

If America succeeds, Iraq will be a free nation. A democracy.

If al qaeda succeeds, the world will suffer for decades. The killing will never end.

Now that the terrorists have taken the ammunition provided by the torture of Iraqi prisoner’s and used that to justify their even more atrocious acts of violence what can we as a nation do? Can we fix the wrong without caving into these terrorists?

Islamofacist scum need no ammunition. They have proven time and again that they will commit barbarous acts for any reason, real or imagined.

And they know that they have apologists in strategic locations, ready on one hand to explain away their behavior, yet claim on the other that they're not subhuman slime.


You must not have seen the entire video..........

We can't:

In process:

Court Marshalls

Criminal Investigations.

Changes in proceedures

When crimes are committed and arrests and court actions are taken AGAINST OUR OWN, that is the "moral high ground".

Man on leash vs. Beheading a civilian

Just a reminder, it was Geogie's dad Bush Senior that ran away from them last time. Clinton was always hard at work.

Fixing the wrong?
We need to fix what we screwed up and get the heck out of there. Repair their infrastructure, establish some sort of leadership, grab our tails, and run like the wind. That will solve this.

Now that the terrorists have taken the ammunition provided by the torture of Iraqi prisoner’s and used that to justify their even more atrocious acts of violence what can we as a nation do?

The escalation by radical islamic elements was to be expected as a reaction to this situation.

I believe that many Iraqis and arabs in general hold resentment towards the United States for what was done to those prisoners and publicized. However, most of them probably wouldn't let it effect their daily lives or act upon it.

The goal of these terrorists is to make this incident the battle cry for the islamic world. I don't think they'll succeed but that is their goal.

Can we fix the wrong without caving into these terrorists?

There is no need to cave in to the terrorists. They don't want us to do anything per se anyway. They are trying to stir things up in Iraq amongst other arabs.

I would think the only way to proactively handle this is to make the criminal proceedings against these soldiers as open and transparent as feasible. The trial and punishment aspects of this have to come off leaving the impression with Iraqis that we will in fact prosecute wrong doing, regardless of how high it goes. If this comes off looking like a bunch of backroom deals were made, then we are going to have problems.

Don't forget there are charges pending against the guards at Abu Ghraib on several prisoner deaths. Just because they weren't any of those pictures aired (except one that I know of) doesn't mean it is any less horrible.

And it's proof of the cultural differences that we see it that way-sexual humiliation is hardly comparable to a beheading. In the Muslim world, they probably see sexual humiliation as worse. Strange, but there it is.

What I do think is that the actions at Abu Ghraib have most likely made extremists out of some Iraqis who were fence-straddlers, and also most likely, has extended this disaster until who-knows-when.

For GM was referring to Somalia, which was Clinton, not the Sr..

Why the heck should the American taxpayer pay to fix their infrastructure, they have more than enough resources to pay for themselves?

Dream,

In no way am I belittling the angst I'm sure you experienced in hearing this news. It is disturbing to no end. However, the "ammunition" you refer to existed long before the news coming out of Abu Ghraib. These are opportunistic cowards, nothing more, nothing less.

The logical extension of this is not that we should idly dismiss the acts that took place. I think its pretty clear from the hearings convened and investigations begun that there (at least I hope) will be a full accounting of these events. I believe we will acknowledge the shortcomings, correct for them and make some degree of amends for what has transpired.

Ironically, it is that very act that separates us from the less than human beings that perpetrated this execution. You will never hear a word of remorse uttered from their mouths, never an expression of horror at what their comrades have committed. The debate on these boards is very much a testament to that hope of humanity. We DO strive for better, even when we take a step back in places like Abu Ghraib.

I do feel that addressing this hatred requires a better understanding of its inspiration. It also requires supporting an alternative worldview of Islam that returns it to its core, of love not of hate, of compassion not conflict. Right now that worldview is in the minority it would seem. Making amends for the "Abu Ghraib"s of the world is a step in the right direction hopefully.

Doc

Loreng59



Because you won't ever defeat terrorism in any other way.


Doclotus



How do you know this? Do you read Arabic? Do you frequent Arabic debate sites?

I've seen Arabs and Turks debate such issues as these on MBT's English subtitled shows, and often they express the very same attitudes as we do in the west. Many times I've seen Muslims, especially Turks and Egyptians taking the 'western' attitude towards such things.

The difference between them and us, is they've never had the chance of freedom that we've had. They don't live in nations where its alright to speak your opinions without fear of retribution.

Daffy Girl:

Man on leash will live on. He may "say" it is worse to be on the leash, but offer him the choice, and I don't care where he lives, he will take the leash over the beheading.

There are some differences, but the reality is most often the same (see: kamikazee pilots ditching zero's)

Red

Dis is true. And there you have the weird rationale of the Arab world.

Apparently, the US MPs involved in torture of their prisoners were using revenge for the killed US soldiers/contractors as ammunition/justification. If folks in this discussion are arguing that the beheading would have happened anyway, I'm inclined to agree. However, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that revenge is being used as the justification.

Revenge can only be satisfied with more revenge unless and until there is rule of law. Well, rule of law cannot be established in a war zone: there are only "conventions". Once one side violates those conventions -- no matter how insignificant -- the other side reciprocates with an escalated response. This should not be surprising to anyone.

Now, we could get into a "who started it argument"; but, again that doesn't matter either. It doesn't matter because escalation builds upon escalation. By the time it is recognizably reprehensible, both sides already have a long history of mutual recriminations.

I think also it is dangerous to treat terrorist networks or insurgent campaigns monolithically. I see redliner1989 doing just that. Not all bad guys have the same agenda, tactics or strategies. More importantly, if a thoughtful person on this forum can see Iraqi insurgents/Al Qaeda terrorist cells/etc. as one entity, then why should it be surprising if people see the actions of a few as being the modus operandi of the entire US military?

My view is that there is no fix for this situation. If you don't want things like this to happen, then you will have to remove yourself from the situation. In other words, take it as a given that mayhem/torture/death in horrendous fashion will continue. Take it as a given the the US military will also participate in this cycle of revenge. Take it as a given that insurgency/terrorism will escalate if the US remains in Iraq. Now, I'm not arguing that we should pull out, I'm arguing that this is only the beginning.

Moif Have to see proof of that statement. If every terrorist group takes American taxpayer money to the tune of 80 billion dollars to stop, I'm willing to bet the American taxpayers will demand another solution be found.

Seems to me that the British managed to end terrorism in Malaya without resorting to buying the terrorists off.

Yes read them daily. The Egyptian sites are particularly blood thirsty and pro-terrorist

Loreng59



I see what you mean, but I think we are saying much the same thing regardless. The British tactic was to win the hearts and minds of the population. What I think must be done in Iraq is much the same thing.

I don't know about the 80 billion dollars though. That is a very steep price. I can only answer, that money is only a means to end and if the end is just then the money is well spent.
Its up to you and your fellows in the USA to decide for yourselves whether or not your prepared to pay the price for this war, both economically and in blood.




I've seen as well. But I don't accept that this is the voice of the majority. I think the vast majority of Muslims are sitting on the fence waiting to see which way the wind blows.

Moif

I think that we can agree on at least one issue

and I hope that you are right on the 2nd In the Arab world the press is in near lock step with the fundamentalists. I hope the a majority of the Muslims decide for peace

Apparently, you have your fact completely wrong.

The travesties in Abu Ghraib occured last year. They were uncovered in January and the investigation is only now getting into the public's "outrage zone" (due, largely to the release of the photos).

The killing, burning and mulitation of the US contractors in Iraq occured in March of this year. They could not possibly have been used to justify the abuses.

I find it unconscienable that this video is being used as a recruiting tool in Iraq. I can see the abuse situation being used for recruitment ("See what they are doing to your people?" type approach), but using cold blooded murder in order to gain recruits in simply evil, there is no way around that fact.



The only way to end these atrocities AND to end the prison abuses is to win this war. We must win. We must defeat these radicals who would decapitate a man and use it to praise Allah.

First I am not saying these acts are equal. Please be clear on that. As I am not Arab I can not speak to whether death is better then being humiliated. To be perfectly honest, I am not sure if I would choose life over certain acts of violence while in captivity. Unless I am in that situation I really don't know.

Again for all I agree that they don’t NEED ammunition they are going to do what they want anyway, but we don’t need to give them ammunition. Since we did give an easy excuse, we need to be concerned about those potential terrorists that will be recruited because of our actions. Action against our mistakes needs to be swift and appropriate. As Cube Jockey pointed out, probably the best thing is for transparency in the proceedings against those responsible, including the higher ranks. Whether they knew about it or not, I find them responsible for the actions of their subordinates. Reprimands and discharge are not enough for me. I want and demand jail time. The Generals responsible for that prison are responsible for the actions of their subordinates.

Since the killers in this video directly cite the abuses at Abu Ghraib, I think we should ask whether it was worth it or not to reveal those photos publicly. Also, is it worth revealing further pictures? Is any further evidence of abuse needed, or will it simply be used as a further recruiting tool and justification for unimaginable atrocities?

The point has been made: abuses have occurred. Congress should definitely remain in the loop. Some third party oversight would be helpful here. Releasing them publicly, however, will probably be more harm (to everyone) than good.

Interesting point, but I am inclined to say that holding back what we have done would show that we are trying hide something. I don't think we should shield (censure) ourselves from our own culpability. The damage has already been done. Truth should prevail. If we are to keep the moral high ground then don't think that holding back relevent details would be hiding from our mistakes?

What useful purpose is served, though?

We already know about the abuses. We know about dozens more photos, and a video (but we haven't seen them). What is served by the public seeing it? Congress, of course, needs to see it. I am actually undecided on this, really, but it seems to me that it can serve no good purpose, besides being used as a twisted justification for atrocities.

If this were a murder in Chicago (for instance), would crime scene photos be released before the trial? There answer is : no way. Why is the protection of the soldiers' civil rights subverted in this case? They are just defendants at this point.

Does this change anything? The cynical part of me assumes that this will be used by dismiss or diminish our torture scandal. Moral relativism can be an intoxicating drug.

The optimist in me hopes that as outraged as we all should be over this, our expectations for our own behavior and for that of our military does not change.

as for me... I made the mistake of going and viewing this video (the sanitized version on the AP page)... I am going to take a long walk now

Jacabo

Ok, I can understand that. So yes, before they are tried I could agree that no more should be shown. I don't think, though, that there would be case for not releasing them after the trials are done.

Amlord Posted on May 11 2004, 06:12 PM


Prior to this incident I advocated full disclosure, not quite sure what I was thinking, oh yeah my intrinsic belief in common sense. Because, if the tables were turned and it was our soldiers on the receiving end, as long as the offending nation was remorseful, conducted a transparent investigation and proper punishment were dished out, I would have been satisfied. Well silly me, I neglected to consider the obvious. I stand corrected and now fully conform to Amlords view. I really don't want to know any more cause If I know, they will know. The saddest part of my change in position is, in a way the terrorists won another battle against freedom, a citizen of an open and free society no longer wants the open aspect

So if the investigations do not go "high enough" for you, then they will not be satisfactory?

I say, everything is being handled by the "checks & balances" in place, making ANY assumptions, including how high up the chain of command the investigation leads is exactly what this beheading was ment to induce.

Amlord



Because this is not a murder in Chicago. The fate of whole nations hangs in the balance.

The fact of these images of US troops abusing Iraqi's is that those troops took those images themselves. They were not caught. They gave themselves away and these images are the instrument of their undoing.

I am glad that the press publicized these pictures. To hell with what the Islamic extremists think! Its our own self perception that is at stake. If we carry on believing every lie the politicians throw at us, then this cycle of violence will never end, regardless of what Muqdr Al what ever his name is thinks or does.

The Islamic terrorists cannot threaten us nearly as much as we can hurt ourselves.

I can't beleive that I agree with this but I do.

No doubt that "for profit" entities publishing these photo's is a threat, but we will deal with the end result. In many cases, the enemy does come from within.

Red

I just want to address this one point first: there was not a SINGLE Iraqi on the planes that flew into the world trade center. fact is the FBI is unsure of the "terrorists" IDs

now I see what these people did as legitimate resistance. the torture photos probably just fueled their anger. we invaded THEIR country.

just out of curiousity, would there be as much outrage if the Iraqis simply shot nick? I highly doubt it. but the beheaded him. it's more brutal and frankly, I understand why they did it: "you continue to torture iraqis this happens to you"



I would like to remind you what sr said at the end of gulf war 1:


george bush sr may have been corporate right wing puppet, but at least he was prudent!

Now that the terrorists have taken the ammunition provided by the torture of Iraqi prisoner’s and used that to justify their even more atrocious acts of violence what can we as a nation do?

I would say would should swiftly deal out justice to all those responsible. (for abuse of Iraqis) the abuse that led to this beheading is not a single incident. according to the red cross, it is widespread. Iraq abuses widespread: Red Cross

this may mean top officials heads might roll, including bushes (if milosevic is guilty so is bush!)

Can we fix the wrong without caving into these terrorists?


lopophage said what I was thinking almost to a tee:

except I DO argue we should fully and totally withdraw from Iraq. the war is illegitimate. there is no moral nor legal ground for it to stand on. we should not have been there to begin with, and we shouldn't be there now.

Ahh, but we can. For we are taking a stance against these actions, determining those reponsible, and punishing them. For the Iraqi's (or Muslims in general) to claim any 'moral' high ground, they would then have to do the same. First and foremost, this would start with outrage at the act. Obviously, one cannot decry the actions against the prisoners while standing by acts such as these--a fact many of those in the Middle East seem unable to grasp. Secondly, there would then have to be action taken to determine who was responsible, and bring them to justice. Of course, I don't think either of these is likely to occur--that is what the statement as to losing the moral high ground is not true.

I will be angry if the people running that prison get off easy! But I am not going to lock myself in my bedroom and throw a tantrum if I don't get it. If we don't prosecute the people who had ultimate control over that prison then we are doing an injustice to the Iraqi people. I don't care what the terrorists want but we do have responsibility to the people of Iraq. We also shouldn't be blinded by the fact that terrorists are using our actions as a recruiting tool and forget the overall importance of doing right by the Iraqi's. Don't you think we need to diminish the terrorists power of using our abuse against those prisoners?

unabomber wrote:



1. The outrage would be less. Per the account of Nick's (you could at least CAPITALIZE HIS NAME!).

They sliced his throat 3 times and yelled "God is Great" until his screams stopped and his neck snapped, they sliced twice more when his head was severed.

You don't find THAT a bit more barbaric, more repulsive, then a quick gunshot???

Can't help ya.

And you understand this thinking?

The geneva convention is a ghost huh?

Perhaps so, but that "moral high ground" won't have any credibility with anyone else but ourselves. We could have had the high ground if we worked within the paramaters of the U.N. and had not been in such a rush for war. The international community did not feel that an invasion was a matter that was imminent, only we did. We kept rushing and pushing, only to find ourselves in quicksand and belatedly asking for help from others. Say what you want about the U.N., but it's nice to have an aura of credibility, especially since we don't possess it right now among the people of Iraq.

We all know that the entire military is corrupt, unabomber, but Taguba has already hinted that the "top end" of the command chain that was derelict is at the Battallion level.

Besides, Bush is not presiding over the extermination of the Iraqi people, at least not in the view of anyone close to mainstream America.

Like, what nebraska? Take Saddams oil money as it appears that several highly moral members of the United Nations Security Council did.

Interesting how outraged you are about these abuses, when, if the UN food for oil story is true, it is the United Nations members, who blocked the resolution, that created the situation (Saddam not relenting under the sanctions) that lead to the invasion

If true, are you going to be OUTRAGED that this war WAS "Blood for Oil", only it is American Blood to pay for oil $$ to Russia and France?

I don't trust the UN and its actions. Therefore even if we had the UN blessing I don't think that should change who we are as a people. Whether one was for the war, not for it, or like me unsure the fact of the matter is we are there. We, as a nation, proclaim ourselves to hold the rights of individual (ok that is diminishing) above the right of the state. While Iraq is a combat zone our good will and basic values should follow. We shouldn't be showing ourselves as torturer's and at the same time providing ammo for the terrorists. We claim that the terrorists are scared of our values and of our freedom but then turn around and treat people like this. It certainly doesn't condone their (the terrorist) behavior but I feel we need to move quickly in order to show that justice for the Iraqi's can and will occur. We need to soften the blow as soon as possible so that the perception that this type of behavior is something we do not condone.

This is a good point. We can't very well blame the enemy for lumping all of us together if we are doing it with them.

The damage is done with the misconduct of the prison soldiers. Swift and appropriate judgement and punishment are the best thing to do, and certainly do not restrict it to the lower ranks. It needs to go as high as can be demonstrated that orders were given allowing these prisoners to be mistreated to "soften them up" or that there is evidence of a laissez-faire attitude about the conduct of the MPs (and whoever else was there) toward their Iraqi prisoners.

There is an old Aesop's fable: A lamb is drinking water from a stream. A wolf comes up and says, "You there, you're fouling the water I'm trying to drink!" The lamb says, "How is that possible? I am downstream from you." Then the wolf says, "Weren't you the one who ran my little cubs off last year when they were but three weeks old?" The lamb says, "It couldn't have been me--I'm only 2 months old!" The wolf growls, "Then it must have been your father!" He grabs the lamb in his jaws. But before the lamb dies, she cries out, "Any excuse will serve a tyrant!"

So it is with the reprobates who beheaded the American. Those who would do it anyway merely found another excuse to do their dirty work.

I may not have worded my statement very well. After a quick Googling, here's a link: Iraq abuse was revenge for Jessica. I'm suggesting that revenge is being used as a justification on all sides.

I really don't think we fully realize the gravity of what happened today.

A group of individuals kidnapped a civilian and savagely cut his head off!

All Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and and coalition civilians have but one option if confronted. Fight to the death. Being taken captive is no longer an option.

Fight to the death, or endure a death that none of us could imagine!

Redliner, I certainly empathize with you. Having a child over there makes the losses of others that much more poignant, especially when an atrocity is committed against one of our own people.

The people in this culture kill their own wives and daughters for the sake of their "honor" if the women or girls are defiled by a man or men. It is therefore not surprising that their eye-for-an-eye attitude would carry over for the sake of those whom they see as their countrymen or fellow believers who suffer "at the hands of the infidel" (us).

It was an evil act to behead this man, to televise it, to exult in the taking of the life supposedly for the glory of their god. I cannot comprehend how the cheapening of human life, anyone's human life, can glorify any god. It is bloody revenge, an act of pride and anger, and nothing better than that.

My prayers go out to the man's family.

I think that is bogus. They didnt need any ammunition. As if the abuse turned them into the type of maniacs that would make them make that poor man name his family and then decapitate him and parade his head in front of the camera. Thats like Hitler saying if critics wouldnt have ridiculed my art I wouldnt have exterminated 11 million people. These people were animals. They have been animals and they will continue to be animals. They would have used any variety of reason to kill him because the US wouldnt answer their demands.

Just to flame the cynicism, I fully expect even worse, more unspeakable acts to occur. I expect such terrorist groups to do things so horrific, to enflame our anger so much that we will commit terrible acts in kind. And you are absolutely right, redliner, death is far more preferable.

Remember Redliner that after the capture of Saddam-- Bush claimed we were taking the war to terrorists in order not to fight it on our own turf? Iraqis are not Al Qaida. Eye for an eye is going to do noone any good.

!0,000 or more Iraqi civilians have died and if you've been reading or seeing the pictures, much of it was indiscriminate sniping, cluster bombs and entire families killed by bombing houses trying to kill people we didnt manage to get. These were not pretty deaths either, especially when it was children.
http://www.independent.org/tii/news/040511Higgs.html

In Abu Graib a few detainees were not only humiliated but beaten to death.

A beheading is certainly ghastly. Its horrible. These are terrorists, the ones we are supposed to be fighting, not Iraqi civilians. Im sure they too are horrified, believing that this will cause much backlash against them as we presumed the torture photos were going to us . This escalation is getting really gruesome. I think we need to keep relatively calm right about now if we arent going to see the whole thing turn into a full blown bloody sadistic mess.

We turned Iraq into a battle ground and Ive said it before that most Iraqis are just pawns. In the Iraqi torture thread many claimed we should not all be held responsible for the behavior of a few, and that applies as well right now.

Artemis:

Your point are well spoken, and taken.

There is a problem however. The enemy we fight wears no uniform, prefering to "blend in" with the civilian population.

When this happens, and has happened, we have no choice but to look with suspicious eyes on all, until, the fence sitters get wise and give up those terrorists within their ranks.

In war terms they are no different then spies, and spies are to be treated differently then Soldiers or Civilians.

Would you not agree?

Red

Let's remember, a little over 2 years ago, Daniel Pearl was also beheaded by Islamic extremists...on tape. Beheading is not so unusual in the Arab world. It is still the form of capitol punishment used in several Arab countries.

This is a culture that view violence differently than Americans do. This is a culture that sees nothing wrong with mutilating women's genitals. This is a culture that sees nothing unusual in stoning women to death. We will never understand this kind of savagery. And in turn, they will never understand western "decadence". I found this site, and it provides a tiny ray of hope that maybe the cycle of violence can change.

Am I naive to believe that a culture inured to violence will never respond positively to violence?

A quick word on Spies under Article 46 of Protocol 1 to the Geneva Convention. Someone is only considered a spy if we capture them while they are engaged in espionage. Traditionally, espionage is the practice of clandestinely obtaining secrets (spying) from rival governments or enemies for military, political, or economic advantage. A spy is the agent employed to obtain such secrets. Although they don't wear uniforms and they try to hide among the populace, we can not routinely treat the individuals in question in Iraq as spies under the Geneva Conventions.

Another perspective on the "spy" issue:

"There is no uniform. It should be mentioned that under the rules of the Geneva Convention, soldiers who were captured in enemy territory, such as spies and "agents provocateurs", who were out of uniform, such as those combatants during the Second World War, lost their rights to the protection of the Geneva Convention, and were very often summarily executed."

This is true enough, but I think it's safe to say that the insurgency is largely motivated by terrorists that are also not Iraqis.

I saw on NBC news that the man who performed the decapitation was none other than Abu Mussab al Zarqawi, Al Qaeda's top man in Iraq who is also suspected of over 100 deaths of US forces in various bombings.

Video shows beheading of American captive in Iraq



What gives with this statement though? "the leader of an Islamist terrorist group"? Why did they not say "Al Qaeda"? They did last year:
Sources: Senior al Qaeda official may have been in Iraq


The BBC has also linked this guy to many major attacks around the globe: Profile: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi


The guy seems to be a bin Laden wannabe...who knows the real story. NBC reports that he is an "associate of Osama bin Laden"
Islamic Web site claims revenge killing


One thing is clear: al-Zarqawi is not an Iraqi.