The Affirmative Action of the Wealthy?

Why don't we hear criticism against that other AA? Legacy, which boosts the chances for a student enrollment if he has a family member who attended the college.

Legacy is practiced at Duke, Univ. of Texas, Univ of Verginia, Harvard and Yale. Blacks were not even allowed to attend these schools until a few years ago, so how can't very well qualify for legacy. Is this fair?


MT

What do you consider "a few years ago" to be?

a few years ago? LOL

Seriously.

1) I think legacy only applies to frats and the like. I don't think it has anything to do with admission

2) So your saying all those who go to college are rich? What about those poor minorities who we allow in due to lower admission standards. do their offspring get the legacy benefit the same as a rich person?

I just happen to be involved with an online university, providing written lectures and writing lab paper reviews for students. Admission standards are very relaxed. Literally, everyone has a shot at earning an accredited undergrad degree. However, the price for completing an undergrad degree is around $35,000 USD.

When I attended a state university in the early 1970s, the cost to me was $8,000 for four years. I could earn the money for school during the summer. Today, students need to take out loans to earn a degree. However much I support higher education and the curriculum of this particular university, I think it is wrong that new grads are strapped with enormous debt. This debt is never forgiven, as in personal bankruptcy, unless unsecured commercial credit cards are used.

One of the selling points is that the degree will increase income. Statistically, this is true; however, in reality, there are no guarantees. I also happen to believe that gaining economic advantage is a poor reason to earn a degree. Thinking, learning, speaking, writing, and organizational skills are much more important, along with a sense of ethics that seems never to have been acquired by certain business leaders of recent interest.

Most people will agree that if you come from a wealthy, influential family, your chances of going to a prestigious college are greater than for those from the middle class. So yes, membership in the elite has its privileges. But this point needs to be made as well: Such privilege can be frittered away, as GWB almost did with his substance abuse. Just as a state university graduate can rise far above expected potentials, the privileged folks can also never come close to their potentials.

A quick explanation DP

For centuries black Americans were denied educational opportunity -- even forbidden by law to learn to read .

Affirmative action program was designed to boost black students' chances for enrollment, giving a lift to black students who, though their test scores are slightly lower, are still able to do college work.

A lawsuit challenging affirmative action policies at the University of Michigan has made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Legacy is the admissions policies that boost the chances for a student's enrollment if he has a family member who attended. Call it an affirmative action program for the wealthy.

Legacy is all the more objectionable when you consider this: Two generations ago, black students were prohibited from attending the University of Texas and the University of Virginia. So they could not provide legacy seats for their children.

It seems no one objects when the playing field is tipped to help the wealthy.


MT

I'm all for moving out of the past, and concentrating on the present/future.

Yes, minorities were denied college entrance. Terribly sorry. Thats awful. I hate it as much as the next person.

But racism exists all over, in all forms, tword all kinds of people...even today.

- South Africa. White people are being forcefully removed from their homes and land, and having that given to black people. White people are being beaten and killed. But you don't hear much about that in the news do you?

- Isreal/Palestine

- Pakistan/India

Yes, it's terrible what my ancestors did to black people. But that is in the past. Let's move on tword a brighter future where "all men are created equal". As it stands now, black people and white people are on the same playing field. Neither are denied college entrance because of their skin color. And both are accepted equally on their own merit.

The black peoples plight 200 years ago, is no worse and no better, than what goes on today, for many many races of people. There are too many problems today, to worry about what went on yesterday.

--cheers

I would hope that there were no reasons other than performance used as an admissions standard. yes people skills matter, but things like that can be gained during your years at college. And so can most other skills.

Ok ok, First, why shouldn't blacks today be held to the same test score standards as whites? Back to where we left off MT, you say they're equal, but for some reason still believe they should recieve special privledges...

The Legacy thing, why do you say "for the wealthy"? I thought you were speaking of whites in general, not wealthy whites particularly. As AuthorMusician said, you needed not be wealthy to attend college in the past generation or so.

The words "Two generations ago" disprove your entire thread in my opinion. My parents are only one generation above me, therefore I'd get the "legacy" treatment as well. For the record, I'm 18, college age.

If this specifically only applied to whites, no question, I would have to object.

Forgot to say, this isn't a government program anyways, it's in place by a private school. Real affirmative action is a government program. If you don't like the legacy policies a school uses, don't go there! Take your money elsewhere!!

This thread is about Legacy, not affirmative action. That subject has already been discussed on another thread which has been closed. I mentioned AA only because DP asked about minorities and lower admission standards.

Also, I am referring to Blacks (not other minorities ) who two generations ago were prohibited from attending the Univ. of Tx and the Univ. of Va.

Given the astronomical tuition at prestigious universities such as Harvard and Yale, I think that one can safely assume that those in attendance are children of the wealthy.

Should college admission be awarded on the basis of parentage?

MT

MT, I know what you're talking about, you just put "Affirmative action of the wealthy" to describe the thread, so I addressed it.

Again, 2 generations ago is at least 40 years or so, so legacy can be passed in that time no problem.

Univerisity of TX and VA cannot be compared to ivy league schools such as Harvard and Yale, and Harvard and Yale weren't included in the schools that didn't allow blacks anyways, right! And as I pointed out in my previous post, AuthorMusician said that you didn't need to be "wealthy" to attend college in the past.

What does "astronomical" mean in the way you used it, I've never seen it used before in that way, quite confusing...

Bottom line, what a private college chooses to base admissions on is their perogotive, as long as the government isn't forcing it, then I'm for whatever they want to use. This may be looked at as some sort of special privledge, it is, however since it is a private school, then nothing can or should be done! Why not just apply elsewhere?

Most selective schools, both private and public, set aside slots for family members of graduates. Legacy is practiced at the Univ. of Tx and the Univ of Virginia.

The Univ of Georgia dropped it's legacy admissions policy after its Affirmative Action was struck down by the court.

"Given the astronomical tuition at prestigious universities such as Harvard and Yale, I think that one can safely assume that those in attendance are children of the wealthy."

I suppose I could have said. Given the huge tuition cost etc.

or given the very high tuition cost etc., but I think astronomical says it better.

MT

Does it matter to you that these are private schools and not public at all? This has absolutely nothing to do with the US government.

The University of Texas and The University of Virginia are PUBLIC institutions.
Also, The University of Georgia, one of the few PUBLIC universities that has discontinued it's Legacy admissions policy.

MT

Legacy admissions are wrong
The case for changes in the admissions process.
By Aaron Page
Cornell University

Legacy admissions, a remnant from the days when Jews, Blacks, and Catholics were admitted only under an implied quota system, has actually managed to endure and prosper in today's supposedly more egalitarian society. Most amazing about its survival is that individuals on both sides of the political spectrum should, by all logical standards, oppose it.

Liberals, so intent on pushing for an economically and racially diverse community through affirmative action and financial aid, should realize the profound regressive repercussions of a policy that rewards people for having rich, white parents who went to the same school. For example, how many minority students benefit from a legacy admissions policy at Duke, which until thirty years ago did not accept African-American students? Meanwhile, since conservatives mandate that people should be evaluated solely on merit (in opposing affirmative-action), they should also contest legacy admissions (which utilize a decidedly non-merit-based criterion).

I agree that someone should not be given more consideration in admission if their parents attended the college. I also don't agree with denying a more qualified applicant admission and letting a less qualified minority into the school, simply because they are a minority. I don't pretend to have all the answers, I just don't agree with that particular policy. Legacy admissions could also work the other way around at "historically black" colleges. More than likely a black student will get a better chance of admission because since it is a "black" school, then odds are that a white applicant did not have parents who attended the school. I know those schools are few and far between, but just some food for thought.

Funny, I thought all colleges were actually private, considering you must pay tuition and the deans and so forth set their own rules, classes, and admission and graduation requirements. Colleges are private, or else they'd be free like grammar school.

Also, do you agree that two generations is long enough to have children??

Colleges and universities are not all private. Public universities have to meet standards that are set by the state. The goal is to reduce the cost of education for students, increase the quality of education, and make the credits more easily transferrable. Each system has its advantages, but public universities, being state run, should be judging applicants on merit not who their parents are.

If these are public, then yes, but I don't think they are for some reason...

If you don't think so go into a search engin and type "public universities."

MT

BringIt, The Universities that Madtown mentioned are in fact public. If you need to verify it, than please do so. This is a good starting point:

Yahoo Directory of Public Universities

Ok then, well I agree that it shouldn't be done for public schools. Private is different.