Thanks, but... only my mom calls me Quarkie!

I am concerned about the reasons for Fade the Butcher's censoring. I hope it was because the comments violated the rules of debate. I have not read the whole discussion strand.

When I went to the University of Alabama in the mid-1990s an organization formed called the Southern League (it subsequently had to change its name to the League of the South because of a threat of a lawsuit from a local professional baseball league). This organization advertised a program that emphasized southern heritage and attacked the role of the federal government in our society.

There were some points of their agenda that clearly resonated with a good portion of their student body. Two members of my academic department and one graduate student actively and publicly supported this organization.

I fretted about the impact of what I perceived to be civil (meaning politely presented) hate words. Being from outside Alabama and knowing its heritage on race (including a continuing segregation of their Greek system thru 1999) I honestly was loathe to see the outcome of an honest debate.

The Southern League briefly became quite popular and much of that popularity came from what it was able to describe on the organization's right to exist and to exercise freedom of speech. (It even got national attention in the New York Times.)

After the victory of this organization on freedom of speech issues, its members then proceeded to use their freedom of speech to express views that equated to a celebration of the values and practices of antebellum southern society.

Questions and accusations from individuals of the University of Alabama student community in the student newspaper led to more explicit and ignorant comments from officers of the organization. Their comments undid their support and free speech won out in letting this organization silence itself by its own actions.

So I hope that this is a forum where indefensible views can be expressed. Because sometimes people making these offensive statements turn out to be William Lloyd Garrison.

Eeyore

Eeyore, it is not censorship.

FTB received three strikes and has been restricted for violations of the Rules of this forum.

I think it would be improper to further discuss someone else's account with non-staff members of America's Debate.

Is it not odd that usually it is the same people who debunk multi-culturalism that promote Southern heritage?

Hugo,

I think that is an interesting odd point. Paradox?

Of course you would find problems with Rush Limbaugh, Jerry Falwell and George W. Bush. They are respected by most Americans. They have earned their good fortune through good living and belief in freedom. But wait, did I say I disliked liberals on a personal level. No, I dislike their ideas, because they are wrong and have been proven wrong since Franklin Roosevelt was president. Why don't you stray a little from the liberal program and offer some original thought instead of trying to be cool and regurgitating my clever post.

Er - what exactly is "clever" about that which is hypocritical and totally fatuous? I ask merely for information. And if you believe that "most" Americans respect Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Falwell - or even George Bush as an individual - you are living in Cloudcuckooland and are PERSONAL ATTACK PREEMPTIVELY DELETED BY THE ORIGINAL POSTER.


Perhaps, when you have a spare moment, Heather, you could expand upon your unfounded blanket statement regarding how "wrong" liberalism has proved to be for the past seventy years.

You should have left out the Cuckooland part also Wertz. That is SO unacceptable I'm ashamed I even have to tell you that

I'm not sure it's all that odd. I suspect most of those who promote "Southern Culture" feel it should be the only culture - which would align perfectly with a rejection of multi-anything.

"Cloudcuckooland" is a literary reference (to Aristophanes' The Birds). In his satire, it is a land in which the lofty speech of the inhabitants disguises their base ideas. I felt that, in elevating people like Rush Limbaugh and Jerry Falwell to the position of good living, respected believers in freedom, it was a perfectly apt reference (from my point of view). If that's way out of line, I'll retract it.

We're just not as smart as you, Wertz. Not everyone gets such "lofty" references...even this humble admin

Admittedly, the reference is fairly obscure for those who lack either a classical education or a theater background - which is probably most people here. I'll try to be a bit less "elitist" in future. But, hey - now you know a bit more about Greek comedy - I'll bet that's made your day!

I continually see comments that Rush is a bigot or disrespects freedom. I would like to see some quotes of Rush to back this up. Or, is it the contention that all conservatives disrespect freedom?

1. My "regurgitation" was simply satire, friend. I was plugging people's names in because the statement is bereft of much in the way of logic. Your tacit assumption that "black leaders" do or should represent "black" people is an example of the fundamental racism this topic is about. The very idea that "black leaders" are mere mouthpieces for some blanket "black" thought is a situation NOT created by them, but by the larger (white) culture. It pigeonholes them and allows their views to be merely condescended to.

2. Liberal ideas are wrong, and have been proven wrong? That's a pretty big statement to make! In partisan politics, both sides tend to use the same tired arguments, plugging in their own side's names. I would similarly expect an uninformed liberal to do the same thing, and say that "conservative" ideas had been proven wrong. It's a much more engaging task, and a more difficult one, to delve into the truth. One of the reasons I have so much respect for Chomsky, for example, is that, unlike someone like, say, Rush Limbaugh, he is scrupulous about referencing and researching his facts. It's easy to say whatever you want; Rush is a clever orator and I'm sure he is very convincing as a speaker. But he engages in really no research, and never backs his opinions up with source data that comes from unpartisan sources.

3. I do not follow any "liberal program." I don't even know what that means. What's my political affiliation? I usually vote for the Green Party, because I think they are a voice of reason, and I would love to see this country come out from under the republicrat two headed beast. I am, more personally, however, a socialist I suppose. However my political views are informed mostly by my study and practice of Zen Buddhism. I don't know about a liberal program, and I've never personally seen one.

4. I think that it would also be safe to say that our nation was founded by liberals, and that their foundation has not been proven wrong. In striking against monarchism, our "founding fathers" had pretty reactionary, liberal ideas about the importance of individuals constructing a society together. They weren't perfect, but they were certainly liberal when compared to Britain's system at the time.

More generalizations Madtown? Don't you ever get tired of grouping people together in little categories and slapping a label on them?

Republican != racist (!= PHP programming for: does not equal)

Not all Rebublicans are racist, not all racists are Republicans. In fact, there is no such thing as a group of people who ALL share EXACTLY the same belief or traits...especially when it comes to politics.

.............
I read and reread your post.
I did NOT say one word about Republicans being racist.

It is not an assumption, but a fact that white people have had more advantages than black people and because of this have a higher standard of living than most Blacks.

So, where are the generalizations and stereotypes?

Madtown