According to this article, a lawyer defended his black client from a murder by abuse charge because of a theory called "Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome". The lawyer claimed that since slave masters beat slaves, the defendant was justified in beating his son.

The judge rejected that claim, but according to the article:


My questions for debate are:
Is Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome a mental disorder or simply another excuse for bad behavior?

If you see this as a mental disorder, do you think the lawyer will be able to show Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome as an accepted mental disorder by the defendant's trial date in September?

I think the only mental disorder on display here would be in the minds of any judge who accepted this codswallop in thier courtroom, or any jury that bought it.

Effectively, if accepted, this could be used as a get-out-of-jail-free card by every black American criminal or potential criminal. Steal something? "Well, the slave owners stole our land and freedom and didn't allow us to own anything as slaves". Kill someone? "Well, many black slaves were killed by slave owners." Don't want to work? "Well, white America benefitted hugely from the free of charge work of my slave ancestors, so they should support me now in my indolence."

There is a flaw, though - if it exists who is to say that such generational trauma ever stops? So the white Americans could pass the blame onto the British, Spanish and French colonial oppressors. Who could in turn blame the Italians for their subjegation under the Roman Empire. Who could in turn blame the Greeks, who could blame someone else. In fact, let's cut to the chase and sue Eve for that damned apple.

Better still, given the omniscience that allowed all this and more to happen, let's just blame God and be done with it. Doubt He'd show up in court, though.

Seriously, this is dangerous nonsense and I thank the God of whose existence I am doubtful that the British legal system does not permit such stupidities and concentrates instead on wearing wigs, a heredtiary monarchy and the merits of tea drinking - sensible stuff like that.

sounds like another mental health "expert" trying to drum up more business for the "profession" by creating diseases and syndromes.

Adds more credence to the expression, "there are no psychiatrists who are not at least a little bit crazy and no lawyers who are not at least a little bit crooked".

If this comes to pass perhaps I can sue the Germans government since my paternal grandfather was dragged off to be a slave worker in Germany.

In all seriousness though, I agree with Julien. This is a dangerous precedence that if accepted would give one ethnic minority a dangerous edge over another.

American slavery is a historoical fact, and as such should stay in the past.

Our court system is in an even sadder state of affairs than I believed if this defense even sees the light of day in a trial. If you follow the PSU's professors logic, the following defenses would be legitimate:

- Post Traumatic Internment Disorder - A defense for Japanese-Americans who should find themselves accused of illegally imprisoning someone.

- Post Traumatic Genocidal Disorder - A defense for Native Americans if they should atttempt to wipe out an entire culture.

- The Chewbacca Defense (just kidding)

Please excuse me if the examples are a tad repugnant, but by drawing this line of reasoning out, those absurd conclusions are what follow (sans the Wookie defense, which is still viable! )



Doc

This is another pathetic "excuse" to try to outwit the law. I can't believe this judge would consider it in the actual trial. And what the Court Appointed said here:

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There is no justification for this! You are trying to get a confessed child abuser and a murderer off the hook on some made up disorder

This is gonna be as bad as the "Twinkie Defense" or maybe worse

This sounds like a defense The Biscuit would have tried on Ally McBeal. It ranks right down there with the Twinkie defense.

Of course, there is always (in theory anyway) someone else to blame for our own lack of self control. There will always be attorneys to spin an excuse into something semi-plausible.

That's why I have problems with the adversarial system sometimes. Despite the evocatively scary name, the inquisitional system does have its advantages.

The lack of personal responsibility in the US is appalling.

This lawyer is actually blaming events more than 150 years in the past for child abuse?

Honestly, one could maybe (just maybe) see if the guy had beaten to death a white guy who attacked him. What he is accused of, however is:


He caused brain damage and broke the neck of a 2 year old. He had whipped him over an undetermined period of time. He wants to blame this on something that happened to his great great grandfather?

Perhaps this "syndrome" has merits . In this case, it's bunk, pure and simple.

Exactly, this does not hold water.
From what I gather the courts are getting bogged down because of idiotic cases.

Just a few quick comments...

Firstly, using this so-called "Post-Traumatic Slavery Syndrome as an excuse for violent behavior is reprehensible at best.

That said, I have heard quite a bit on the idea that the use of physical/corporal punishment among African American households CAN be directly linked to the slave/master relationship. I can attest, both from personal experience and from research I've read over the years (most of which was in college, and I am sure I could dig it up if requested), that physical punishment is much more widely used in African American households than among white households. This is perhaps more statistically significant in recent years when more people are starting to steer away from all forms of physical punishment (i.e. spankings). Part of it is the idea of a cycle of abuse (masters beating slaves when they were "disobedient" - those slaves, in turn, beating their children when they were "disobedient", etc.) and part of it is a spiritual thing ("Spare the rod, spoil the child") - African Americans being, by in large, a spiritual people. I think the basis for this PTSS is the notion that ebcause masters beat their slaves, slaves began doing teh same to their "unruly" children - they gave what they got, so-to-speak. I don't think it's a valid excuse for someone phsycally abusing another human being, but the link makes sense.

I don't think you can blame the master/slave abuse relationship DIRECTLY, but I would certainly argue that it is indirectly related to the cultural practices of discipline found in many African American homes.

In my own personal experience (within my husband's family as well as other family friends' families), I have only known of one African American family who did not condone corporal punishment. Whether it sounds like a gross generalization or not, that has been my experience. I'm sure my husband's family thinks I'm a little looney because I choose not to use corporal punishment - some have vocalized their "concerns" to me that my form of discipline will not work - "you need to instill fear and set boundaries and the way to do this is through spankings/"whuppin's".

Do I think it's excusable? No, of course not - but I don't think one can separate history and the related experiences from the cultural norms that have developed over the years. That doesn't mean that I think the so-called PTSS has any merit or legal bearings (I don't) - but I do think there is a correlation between physical punishment/abuse and historical treatment of an entire "race" of people...we all know that cycles are extremely hard to break.

I remember that my (white) grandparents talked about being beaten by a cat-o-nines in their youth, they in turn had my father go and cut a switch himself from a tree; hence my fathers preferred implement was his belt and my mother, who was raised under strict military family, severe discipliarians, used anything she had in her hands, as well as kneeling on raw rice in the corner (this appears no big deal but actually hurts) , red pepper on the tongue and a myriad of previously learned child torture techniques. Nuns used to whack childrens knuckles with a ruler in my early days, soon to be looked badly upon. When I was young if a neighbor saw you doing something wrong and didnt give you a few whacks for it before turning you over to your parents they would be minimally admonished for why not in front of you, then believe me, you were in for a belt lashing ( pants down) and bed without dinner. And better not cry about it either or you got it doubletime.

Its not only blacks that got a raw deal where corporal punishment is concerned, it used to be widespread in white culture, especially in early immigrant households or in the poor or both. All the kids in my neighborhood got (belt) beat, it was the accepted norm, and that was middle america in the 1960's.

Its well known that abuse leads to abuse and we pass it down from generation to generation, but it's not race specific by any stretch. Many immigrants were abused in their coming to America but also carried with them a culture of child abuse from the old countries, as well as child slave labor as a given.

Yet somehow I dont beat my dog or abuse children and never would. Maybe had I had kids in my twenties I would have made some of these mistakes, I used to beat on my little brother... just like my parents did me.

We have been educated since then. There is no excuse today. I have noticed though that this still occurs more regularily in poor families where there is a shorter frustration fuse or chemical/alchohol dependancy.

I dont think there is a leg to stand on about ' PT slavery syndrome'. Its a pretty fantastical stretch of the imagination historically. The argument is lame.

There are other reasons, real reasons why the chain of abuse is hard to break. Lack of education and extended generational poverty a likely start.

Is Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome a mental disorder or simply another excuse for bad behavior?

I would say that this is yet another bogus affirmative defense in a long line of attempts by defense lawyers. They wouldn't be making the big bucks if they didn't try right?

If you see this as a mental disorder, do you think the lawyer will be able to show Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome as an accepted mental disorder by the defendant's trial date in September?

There is no way that this could be declared a mental disorder by the defendants trial date in September. It often takes years for new theories in mental health to become generally accepted in Psychology. The judge may or may not allow the defense to use this as an affirmative defense, but I highly doubt the jury would buy it.

I suppose there is always the possibility of this being an appeal issue if it does become accepted someday

An excuse for bad behavior, period.

I have always believed that one who is raised right (and that doesn't necessarily mean perfect), one who's parents told them the differences between right and wrong and the consequences of both, will ultimately live and do right by their fellow man.

If this man was beaten as a child, that might be a good explanation, not a defense. And even so, there are people all over this country (I know one myself) who had family members beat them when they were kids, only to grow up and never lay a finger on their own children.

In the end, it comes down to whether or not the parents instilled good ideals into their children, and whether or not someone has the personal discipline it takes to raise a child.

Why did the defense raise this defense? They have nothing else and hope the judge would make a mistake and they would have an appellate issue. The DC knew t had no hope at trial. He may have even done it to screw with the prosecutor to keep him off base. A feint as it were.

Why did the judge make the ruling he did? To make the defense counsel do the leg work and if (when) he brings nothing further up on the issue he forfieits the issue on appeal.

Nothing shocking on either behalf, just a crafty defense counsel countered by a craftier judge.


J

Post Traumatic Slave Disorder, is just a ploy on the part of african-americans. in case people like Malik Shabazz of the NBPP, doesn't recall it was africans that sold africans to the europeans that brought the slaves to America. Africans Also owned slaves for those of you that are un-informed.
In an Interview that Malik Shabazz gave to Fox News, he mentioned that blacks whipped their kids, because they were whipped as slaves. Does he not realize that slavery in the United States ended 139 years ago? He also brought up the fact that we "White Society" should pay them reparations. I didn't own slaves, nor has anyone else that is alive in this country, so that argument needs to die.
The bottom line is that some guy that beat and killed his 2 year old son, is trying to get away with it because of the way blacks were treated over 139 years ago. If this Judge allows this defense that isn't even recognized as a true mental disorder, then that judge should be disbarred. People need to take responsibility for their own actions, and not try to use a dumb excuse.

I really hate these kinds of defenses. "I beat my kid to death because my people were beaten over a century ago". "I beat my kid to death because I was beaten as a child". Etc, Etc.

What do these types of defenses say about all the people who grew up in the same circumstances that didn't become abusive or criminals? Are they just saps? Why live right and be responsible? After all, you have the perfect excuse to rob, rape, murder etc. You didn't have a perfectly happy childhood.

As human beings we have minds, and we have the ability to overcome adversity if we choose to do the work. We have free will. This "man" exercised free will and CHOOSE to beat his child to death.

There is no excuse for that, especially one a lame as that presented by the defense. In my opinion his punishment should include daily beatings while in prison, and he should never get out.

After all, how can you possibly calculate the loss suffered by society when someone takes a child's life? That child could have grown up to become the researcher who cures AIDs or cancer, the President that brings about world peace, or the inventor who creates the foolproof internet voting system and opens the doors for everyone, no matter how lazy, to vote. We will never know how much we lost at the hands of this "man".

I believe it's a mental disorder. Unless you've been a slave or the descendant of a slave, you have no right to say it's not a disorder. Try being beaten several times a day and forced to work everyday and see how you get along with "other kinds" of people.

So, exactly who are these people that have been beaten everyday and not getting along with "other kinds" of people? Know any?

You say we have no right to say it's not a disorder. Well, how do the people that never have actually been slaves have a right?

Are you suggesting that if my grandma said her life sucked, she was beat everyday because she was a woman, and violated by an abusive alcoholic husband, I should be carrying that "burden" throughout my life? Even if I wasn't personally affected by it?

That's absurd.

Actually, in America, we have a right to say whatever we want, thanks to the bill or rights and the First Amendment. And if what we have to say is grounded in common sense than all the better.

But the Twinkie Defense worked.

Dan White (armed with a gun) climbed through a basement window to avoid the metal detector at the entrance to San Francisco City Hall. He shot dead two men, the Mayor and a superviser. He had brought extra bullets and needed to reload his gun during the killings.

The jury found him "not guilty" of murder. He served five years, one month and nine days for manslaugther.

Soon after his release, he killed himself. Maybe he had eaten a Twinkie that day.