Full Version: "Soaping" teacher suspended
What do you think about this:
The questions are:
QUOTE
ROCHESTER, N.Y. - An elementary school teacher was placed on paid leave for washing a boy’s mouth out with soap after he shouted an obscenity at a classmate.
Lori Thomas, 48, who has taught for six years at inner-city School 22, said she was stunned when a 10-year-old boy directed “a vile, very nasty sexual reference” at a third-grade girl in March.
Thomas said she didn’t want the boy, who had frequently been sent home for unruly behavior, to earn another one-week suspension.
She took the boy to the nurse’s office, she said, “put a drop of soap on his lower lip, washed it out immediately and told him I never wanted to hear filth like that coming out of his mouth again.”
“Old-fashioned ways work,” she said unapologetically.
The boy behaved for the remainder of the day and didn’t complain to his foster mother, Thomas said. The boy’s brother told district officials what had happened, she said.
Thomas was suspended indefinitely. The district could either fire Thomas — even though tenure provides such teachers “a lot of protection” — or level “a lesser amount of discipline,” said Joanne Giuffrida, personnel chief in the 6,000-employee school district.
“I wish we could have handled this more expeditiously too,” Giuffrida said. She said an investigation will likely be completed within two weeks.
More than 40 relatives of children in Thomas’ class have asked for her to be reinstated.
Lori Thomas, 48, who has taught for six years at inner-city School 22, said she was stunned when a 10-year-old boy directed “a vile, very nasty sexual reference” at a third-grade girl in March.
Thomas said she didn’t want the boy, who had frequently been sent home for unruly behavior, to earn another one-week suspension.
She took the boy to the nurse’s office, she said, “put a drop of soap on his lower lip, washed it out immediately and told him I never wanted to hear filth like that coming out of his mouth again.”
“Old-fashioned ways work,” she said unapologetically.
The boy behaved for the remainder of the day and didn’t complain to his foster mother, Thomas said. The boy’s brother told district officials what had happened, she said.
Thomas was suspended indefinitely. The district could either fire Thomas — even though tenure provides such teachers “a lot of protection” — or level “a lesser amount of discipline,” said Joanne Giuffrida, personnel chief in the 6,000-employee school district.
“I wish we could have handled this more expeditiously too,” Giuffrida said. She said an investigation will likely be completed within two weeks.
More than 40 relatives of children in Thomas’ class have asked for her to be reinstated.
The questions are:
- Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
- If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
QUOTE(English Horn @ Jun 11 2004, 08:52 AM)
What do you think about this:
ROCHESTER, N.Y. - An elementary school teacher was placed on paid leave for washing a boy’s mouth out with soap after he shouted an obscenity at a classmate.
Lori Thomas, 48, who has taught for six years at inner-city School 22, said she was stunned when a 10-year-old boy directed “a vile, very nasty sexual reference” at a third-grade girl in March.
Thomas said she didn’t want the boy, who had frequently been sent home for unruly behavior, to earn another one-week suspension.
She took the boy to the nurse’s office, she said, “put a drop of soap on his lower lip, washed it out immediately and told him I never wanted to hear filth like that coming out of his mouth again.”
“Old-fashioned ways work,” she said unapologetically.
The boy behaved for the remainder of the day and didn’t complain to his foster mother, Thomas said. The boy’s brother told district officials what had happened, she said.
Thomas was suspended indefinitely. The district could either fire Thomas — even though tenure provides such teachers “a lot of protection” — or level “a lesser amount of discipline,” said Joanne Giuffrida, personnel chief in the 6,000-employee school district.
“I wish we could have handled this more expeditiously too,” Giuffrida said. She said an investigation will likely be completed within two weeks.
More than 40 relatives of children in Thomas’ class have asked for her to be reinstated.
Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
QUOTE
ROCHESTER, N.Y. - An elementary school teacher was placed on paid leave for washing a boy’s mouth out with soap after he shouted an obscenity at a classmate.
Lori Thomas, 48, who has taught for six years at inner-city School 22, said she was stunned when a 10-year-old boy directed “a vile, very nasty sexual reference” at a third-grade girl in March.
Thomas said she didn’t want the boy, who had frequently been sent home for unruly behavior, to earn another one-week suspension.
She took the boy to the nurse’s office, she said, “put a drop of soap on his lower lip, washed it out immediately and told him I never wanted to hear filth like that coming out of his mouth again.”
“Old-fashioned ways work,” she said unapologetically.
The boy behaved for the remainder of the day and didn’t complain to his foster mother, Thomas said. The boy’s brother told district officials what had happened, she said.
Thomas was suspended indefinitely. The district could either fire Thomas — even though tenure provides such teachers “a lot of protection” — or level “a lesser amount of discipline,” said Joanne Giuffrida, personnel chief in the 6,000-employee school district.
“I wish we could have handled this more expeditiously too,” Giuffrida said. She said an investigation will likely be completed within two weeks.
More than 40 relatives of children in Thomas’ class have asked for her to be reinstated.
Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
Yes. Teachers are not suppose to administer this sort of punishment. This calls for a trip to the principal's office and let him decide disiplinary action.
QUOTE
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
Detention. That's usually a way to go.
Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
Yes.
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
Parental fine. Its the parents responsibility to teach their children how to behave with regards to other people.
If a person finds themselves alone with a child and unable to cope, then that should be taken into account. But raising children is not just about stuffing a burger n fries into them.
A child who does not learn respect is never going to get any.
This teacher has the right idea, but it is not for her to administer this punishment. It is for the childs parent/s to do so. Should the parents fail to instill a healthy respect for other people then they should be made to do so by means of transferring the punishment from the child to the parents.
Its as simple as that. If a child commits a crime, then its the parents responsibility.
Yes.
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
Parental fine. Its the parents responsibility to teach their children how to behave with regards to other people.
If a person finds themselves alone with a child and unable to cope, then that should be taken into account. But raising children is not just about stuffing a burger n fries into them.
A child who does not learn respect is never going to get any.
This teacher has the right idea, but it is not for her to administer this punishment. It is for the childs parent/s to do so. Should the parents fail to instill a healthy respect for other people then they should be made to do so by means of transferring the punishment from the child to the parents.
Its as simple as that. If a child commits a crime, then its the parents responsibility.
Should she be suspended and fired?
Absolutely. Their are rules for the disciplining of children at school for a reason.
"Old fashioned ways work" now that is a laugher. They used to hang pickpockets. Old does not equal good.
How should she have dealt with the problem?
Probably with the approved disciplinary ways the school provides. The kid is in foster care, there is no telling what this kid has been through already before Ms. Neanderthal got to him.
J
Absolutely. Their are rules for the disciplining of children at school for a reason.
"Old fashioned ways work" now that is a laugher. They used to hang pickpockets. Old does not equal good.
How should she have dealt with the problem?
Probably with the approved disciplinary ways the school provides. The kid is in foster care, there is no telling what this kid has been through already before Ms. Neanderthal got to him.
J
QUOTE(Jagwease @ Jun 11 2004, 10:18 AM)
Should she be suspended and fired?
Absolutely. Their are rules for the disciplining of children at school for a reason.
"Old fashioned ways work" now that is a laugher. They used to hang pickpockets. Old does not equal good.
How should she have dealt with the problem?
Probably with the approved disciplinary ways the school provides. The kid is in foster care, there is no telling what this kid has been through already before Ms. Neanderthal got to him.
J
Absolutely. Their are rules for the disciplining of children at school for a reason.
"Old fashioned ways work" now that is a laugher. They used to hang pickpockets. Old does not equal good.
How should she have dealt with the problem?
Probably with the approved disciplinary ways the school provides. The kid is in foster care, there is no telling what this kid has been through already before Ms. Neanderthal got to him.
J
Well, I think we get carried away here a little bit. It's not like he was beaten with a ruler or anything like that.
My feeling is that approved disciplinary ways in public schools do not work. Most will just suspend the student for a day or for a week (now, when I was a kid, if somebody would tell me that I don't have to go to school for a week, would I consider it a punishment? No way!
More time to do fun stuff!). These disciplinary actions, designed to put as little strain on the school as possible, are partially the reason why public schools are such a disaster.
Was the kid hurt? No. Was he publicly humiliated? No. I may earn the "neanderthal" nickname here
, but I believe that this is one of those cases when the goal may justify the means.
Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
Yes, most definitely. That is not her child, she has NO business touching him. I would also like to add that if this was my child, the teacher's arms would be broken in a way that would make her elbows bend in the opposite direction.
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
This is too broad of question. "Unruly" could mean everything from throwing a paper airplane to inciting a riot. Every situation should be judged on its own. In this case, I honestly don't see the big deal. She should have either told the kid to not use that kind of language, or ignored it completely, and went on about her business. Let's get real, all the kid did was say a word that people don't like to hear. This is the epitome of a non-issue.
Yes, most definitely. That is not her child, she has NO business touching him. I would also like to add that if this was my child, the teacher's arms would be broken in a way that would make her elbows bend in the opposite direction.
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
This is too broad of question. "Unruly" could mean everything from throwing a paper airplane to inciting a riot. Every situation should be judged on its own. In this case, I honestly don't see the big deal. She should have either told the kid to not use that kind of language, or ignored it completely, and went on about her business. Let's get real, all the kid did was say a word that people don't like to hear. This is the epitome of a non-issue.
QUOTE
I would also like to add that if this was my child, the teacher's arms would be broken in a way that would make her elbows bend in the opposite direction.
...which would land you in jail for long enough time for your kid to grow up without a father. It's just not worth it. I would also hope that your child will not direct "a vile, very nasty sexual reference" towards another child.
QUOTE
Let's get real, all the kid did was say a word that people don't like to hear. This is the epitome of a non-issue.
I don't think so, he directed it towards another girl - who may have been traumatized more than this kid was by a drop of soap. What happened with discipline in school? I am not a proponent of a boot camp, but let's get real here - foul language should be punished.
I have two co-workers who grew up going to Catholic schools and they had their hands slapped with a ruler by nuns, etc. We are not talking about corporal punishment here, just a drop of soap!
It takes a village to raise children. The teacher should not be disciplined. If you are not of the belief that it takes a village to raise a child, then when your kid does something bad, you should be fined or punished in some way. You have a right to keep your kid untouched from the society you live in, but when your kid damages others, you should have to pay the consequences if you do not approve of the basic societal enforcements of the rules. Yes, I know this can be considered a slippery slope, but realistically, the general population can handle the basic disciplinary problems such as a child swearing, hitting others, or sticking his finger in an electrical socket. Most anyone with common sense knows an appropriate deterrent for the above actions. If you don't trust the basic caregivers in society, your kid should be home-schooled, and you should discpline him directly.
Don't force your paranoia on society just because you think there is a boogey man around every corner. If you are that distrustful of your fellow human beings, what are you doing letting your child out of your sight to begin with? I encourage any teachers, relatives, coaches, or neighbors to discipline my child when I'm not around. Heaven knows the kids need to know that someone other then their mother loves them.
Don't force your paranoia on society just because you think there is a boogey man around every corner. If you are that distrustful of your fellow human beings, what are you doing letting your child out of your sight to begin with? I encourage any teachers, relatives, coaches, or neighbors to discipline my child when I'm not around. Heaven knows the kids need to know that someone other then their mother loves them.
Some one please explain to me how detention has much at all to do with the young person in question mouth.
I would suggest some parents go to the schools and find out just how your darling little angels behave. Some of you might be very surprised.
I remember once years ago, I worked for the telephone company. A young man (probably about 8-10)keep calling the repair # and cussing out people and all other sort of things. What the young man didn't know, was that they could call his father at work and connect the two calls. Said father was shocked to hear his young son, and young son was more than dismayed that his father heard his behavior.
Why do parents always side with their children? This is insane. Do you have so very little faith in those you intrust your children to for the majority of their day? If you have so little trust, then take your children out of public school.
Detention is a waste of taxpayers money and our future. Go check out how children behave there.
The attitudes I have seen here, are one of the reasons that GOOD teachers become harder to come by every day. This is but one student, try having a whole class act like that(30-35 children). Yes, those who complain, should spend 1 Week as a teacher. And she how you like being treating like garbage.
I would suggest some parents go to the schools and find out just how your darling little angels behave. Some of you might be very surprised.
I remember once years ago, I worked for the telephone company. A young man (probably about 8-10)keep calling the repair # and cussing out people and all other sort of things. What the young man didn't know, was that they could call his father at work and connect the two calls. Said father was shocked to hear his young son, and young son was more than dismayed that his father heard his behavior.
Why do parents always side with their children? This is insane. Do you have so very little faith in those you intrust your children to for the majority of their day? If you have so little trust, then take your children out of public school.
Detention is a waste of taxpayers money and our future. Go check out how children behave there.
The attitudes I have seen here, are one of the reasons that GOOD teachers become harder to come by every day. This is but one student, try having a whole class act like that(30-35 children). Yes, those who complain, should spend 1 Week as a teacher. And she how you like being treating like garbage.
I can see both sides to this story. If my child was treated like this, I would be jumping up and down for the teacher to be fired. Had a teacher done this to me as a child, my father would have sent her flowers and a thank you card.
We ask a great deal of the country's educators, and provide them peanuts in return. I get the felling that the teacher cares about this student. What seems to be expected by posters here is that she should have displayed apathy toward her students, and let others deal with shaping them into proper humans.
We don't need an apathetic educational system. A pro-active one is a smarter solution. I bet this kid doesn't use that word again for awhile. Well done teach!
We ask a great deal of the country's educators, and provide them peanuts in return. I get the felling that the teacher cares about this student. What seems to be expected by posters here is that she should have displayed apathy toward her students, and let others deal with shaping them into proper humans.
We don't need an apathetic educational system. A pro-active one is a smarter solution. I bet this kid doesn't use that word again for awhile. Well done teach!
Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
I think she should be disciplined, but with a "slap on the wrist". From what we're told, it sounds like what she did is completely justified. However, I remember alot of times in school where someone was punished for something not their actual fault- from telling someone talking in class to shut up so they can hear to yelling at someone who hit them, etc.
I'm more worried about setting a precedent, giving any teacher carte blanche to immediately punish kids physically when they think a kid did something wrong. As a goody-goody and a friend to goody-goodies, I might not be as even-tempered today if some teacher was allowed to paddle me/soap me for yelling at the kid that just stabbed me with a pencil- often teachers are too busy and harried to halt class to see why some outburst happened, and we're abit hypocritical in telling kids to "just ignore" some kid bothering them. Physical punishment, right in the class room instead of in front of a principal that hears both sides, invites misuse. Teachers don't have the time to figure out what happened and shouldn't be allowed to inflict physical punishments at a whim.
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
This is a really good question. Ideally, punishment needs to be tailored to the specific student. Some kids can actually be reasoned with, although very few. "Time out" works for some, general sticks and carrots for others (some kids would do anything for a gold star. Never understood that.). And some, quite possibly, will only respond to corporal punishment. The problem is knowing which are which and not having everyone question why punishments are different for the same thing. What's more, I remember that consistently bad kids used to get punished less for the same thing as a kid that was usually well-behaved- teachers knew detention, etc. didn't work on the bad kid, but would still send the good kid. There's very little allowed and practical that seems to work on a real brat.
Basically, the important thing is to get things under control enough for a decent environment (really a question of getting the brats to behave) and not being so harsh as to "over punish" (like I said, I saw alot of kids being punished for things that any goody-two-shoes would approve of, but being yelled at by a teacher is much less likely to embitter a good student than being humiliated/hurt physically). This system will never be perfect, but I don't want a teacher be allowed to cause my child physical distress unless they're absolutely certain he did something as bad as the punishment- if he swore at someone who hit him, etc, he'd better not be paddled.
Finally, as much as I generally sympathize for teachers, there are some who are just angry, embittered types who chose the job because it's the closest they'll ever get to dictator. Most of my teachers were lovely people, even after years of dealing with brats, but there are some I'd never want to put in the position of being able to sadistically punish kids. Leave that (if necessary) to the principal, so that for each school there's only one person responsible to worry about.
I think she should be disciplined, but with a "slap on the wrist". From what we're told, it sounds like what she did is completely justified. However, I remember alot of times in school where someone was punished for something not their actual fault- from telling someone talking in class to shut up so they can hear to yelling at someone who hit them, etc.
I'm more worried about setting a precedent, giving any teacher carte blanche to immediately punish kids physically when they think a kid did something wrong. As a goody-goody and a friend to goody-goodies, I might not be as even-tempered today if some teacher was allowed to paddle me/soap me for yelling at the kid that just stabbed me with a pencil- often teachers are too busy and harried to halt class to see why some outburst happened, and we're abit hypocritical in telling kids to "just ignore" some kid bothering them. Physical punishment, right in the class room instead of in front of a principal that hears both sides, invites misuse. Teachers don't have the time to figure out what happened and shouldn't be allowed to inflict physical punishments at a whim.
If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
This is a really good question. Ideally, punishment needs to be tailored to the specific student. Some kids can actually be reasoned with, although very few. "Time out" works for some, general sticks and carrots for others (some kids would do anything for a gold star. Never understood that.). And some, quite possibly, will only respond to corporal punishment. The problem is knowing which are which and not having everyone question why punishments are different for the same thing. What's more, I remember that consistently bad kids used to get punished less for the same thing as a kid that was usually well-behaved- teachers knew detention, etc. didn't work on the bad kid, but would still send the good kid. There's very little allowed and practical that seems to work on a real brat.
Basically, the important thing is to get things under control enough for a decent environment (really a question of getting the brats to behave) and not being so harsh as to "over punish" (like I said, I saw alot of kids being punished for things that any goody-two-shoes would approve of, but being yelled at by a teacher is much less likely to embitter a good student than being humiliated/hurt physically). This system will never be perfect, but I don't want a teacher be allowed to cause my child physical distress unless they're absolutely certain he did something as bad as the punishment- if he swore at someone who hit him, etc, he'd better not be paddled.
Finally, as much as I generally sympathize for teachers, there are some who are just angry, embittered types who chose the job because it's the closest they'll ever get to dictator. Most of my teachers were lovely people, even after years of dealing with brats, but there are some I'd never want to put in the position of being able to sadistically punish kids. Leave that (if necessary) to the principal, so that for each school there's only one person responsible to worry about.
QUOTE(pennDerek @ Jun 11 2004, 02:06 PM)
Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
Yes, the administration pursued the right action. Hopefully they have documented this action among others(where there's smoke, there's fire) and initiate proceedings against her to get her fired. Although the kid was in the wrong, soaping out his mouth does not teach him WHY such a thing is wrong to do in the first place.
QUOTE(English Horn @ Jun 11 2004, 11:37 AM)
QUOTE
Let's get real, all the kid did was say a word that people don't like to hear. This is the epitome of a non-issue.
I don't think so, he directed it towards another girl - who may have been traumatized more than this kid was by a drop of soap.
Please. How many people do you know that have EVER been traumatized by being cursed at? From elementary school and on, basically everyone I know cursed. I am yet to see ANYONE get traumatized by it. I would like to take a look at some statistics about people getting traumatized by foul language.
QUOTE(EnglishHorn @ Jun 11 2004, 11:37 AM )
What happened with discipline in school? I am not a proponent of a boot camp, but let's get real here - foul language should be punished.
Discipline and choice of words are not mutually inclusive. Like I said, show me the harm.
QUOTE(perspective @ Jun 11 2004, 11:55 AM)
It takes a village to raise children. The teacher should not be disciplined. If you are not of the belief that it takes a village to raise a child, then when your kid does something bad, you should be fined or punished in some way. You have a right to keep your kid untouched from the society you live in, but when your kid damages others, you should have to pay the consequences if you do not approve of the basic societal enforcements of the rules. Yes, I know this can be considered a slippery slope, but realistically, the general population can handle the basic disciplinary problems such as a child swearing, hitting others, or sticking his finger in an electrical socket. Most anyone with common sense knows an appropriate deterrent for the above actions. If you don't trust the basic caregivers in society, your kid should be home-schooled, and you should discpline him directly.
If you want your kids raised by a village that is your right. I have quite an animosity to the whole concept, and that's MY right. My child will be going to school to learn how to read, write, add, etc. Half the time the teachers can't even get that right. His moral upbringing is none of the school's business, and they better stay out of it. Why should I have to homeschool my kid? This is the equivalent of you going to the doctor, and the doctor trying to tell you what your career choices should be. Hey, if you don't trust the basic caregivers in society, you deal with being sick on your own. Right?
Schools serve a specific function. Period.And of course, cursing, hitting people, and sticking fingers in electrical sockets hold similar consequences. Are you honestly trying to compare cursing to the other two?
QUOTE(perspective @ Jun 11 2004, 11:55 AM)
Heaven knows the kids need to know that someone other then their mother loves them.
Heaven knows the kid felt loved when he was getting his mouth scrubbed out with soap.
QUOTE(Looms @ Jun 12 2004, 01:45 PM)
If you want your kids raised by a village that is your right. I have quite an animosity to the whole concept, and that's MY right. My child will be going to school to learn how to read, write, add, etc. Half the time the teachers can't even get that right. His moral upbringing is none of the school's business, and they better stay out of it. Why should I have to homeschool my kid? This is the equivalent of you going to the doctor, and the doctor trying to tell you what your career choices should be. Hey, if you don't trust the basic caregivers in society, you deal with being sick on your own. Right? Schools serve a specific function. Period.
Schools serve a specific function. Period.I find it contradictory to have "animosity" to the idea of the village raising the child and yet conclude that sending one's child to public school is a no-brainer.
Sending your child to school means that your child will be spending more time with the teacher (and classmates) each weekday than with you. If you live under the delusion that the only thing being attended to during those hours is reading writing and arithmetic then you are sorely mistaken. As with any other social situation (your workplace perhaps) there are multiple levels of engagement between persons. I trust that, in your workplace, there is some focus on the job at hand. However there are countless other social mechanisms at work that have equal and sometimes greater importance in the lives of the people : Love interest, professional development, rumors, ladder climbing, etc...
It would be laughable to say that people go to work ONLY to do their work and to have no other interactions. Likewise, it is almost unbearable to hear a parent insist tha their child goes to school ONLY to learn the basic and get an education. So much more is happening there. Children are practicing skills they learn at home (and yes, often embarassing ones), they are learning social cues, they are learning about authority, they are making friends, they are finding enemies, they are playing.
If you don't want your child to learn any of life's lessons (aside from math and English lessons) while in the custody of another adult you should remove them from the public school system.
This is nothing like going to a doctor and having the doctor give you career choices. Teachers work with rooms FULL of children every day. Most ALSO have their own. Whether you like it or not they know a lot more than you do about how children develop. This is not to say that all teachers are good teachers, surely and sadly this is not true. However, sending your child to public school and yet insisting that teachers give them no moral, social, personal guidance IS like going to a doctor and then insisting that you will not receive any modern medical treatments.
Looms, from your statements it sounds like your child is not yet old enough to be going to school. I trust your understanding will change when you start to spend some time actually inside a school and see what is going on. You surely sound like a parent who will be active in your child's education.
As far as how this all helps me answer the basic questions at hand:
Do I agree with the School Board?
Probably not, but I understand their desire to make sure that there was nothing more to the incident than meets the eye. If they find there was a pattern of punishment or abuse directed toward that one student then it could be trouble.
However, the reality is that that kid most likely didn't mind the treatment at all. "At Risk" kids are at risk BECAUSE everyone (starting with their parents) has shuffled them off to the bureaucracy (send to principal, write report, give punishment) instead of giving them the attention they crave. And yes folks, kids don't mind negative attention sometimes!! Being chastized is never a bad thing to a child as long as there is opportunity for them to receive love and respect when they correct their behavior. Constant punishment with no relief of resolution IS a problem at home or in school.
What is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?"
This is a loaded question. Elementary school children acting out violence against women is a far cry from throwing a wad of paper at someone. It shocks me that people could argue that this child's cursing (mind you in a sexual nature) at a younger girl is not possibly damaging. Anyone who would argue that has yet to sit in on a workplace violence workshop at their job. This can be very damaging, in the same way constant bullying can be, to a young child. I will only bother getting the links to prove this if someone decides to argue the point, honestly I assumed it was commonly understood to be true.
Anyway, the child in question was clearly a victim of the bureaucratic system for some time. This system does not work. Attention to bad behavior, paid by authorities and peers alike, is the only method I know of to correct bad behavior. Sitting and talking, warning, setting up a system of rewards, and then finally penalizing is a basic outline all teachers know. (We don't know if the teacher inquestion did these things so don't bother arguing the point) Sadly, the bureaucratic system schools use is NOT designed simply for ease of use for the school. It is designed with litigious parents, horribly disruptive students, and outdated laws in mind. A long paper trail is the only way to defend against these things, unfortunately, because so many people, it seems, don't trust the application of human interaction to teach their children to become well-adjusted humans.
Well, although I did find it rather funny, I imagine it's up to the parents to discipline their own child in such a way. I used to cuss up a storm (and still do, not my folks fault but my own) but at 8, 9, 10 years old, I would never dream of yelling vulgar obscenities at a girl. My mom would, as she used to say, 'hang me by my toes'.
So should the teacher be severely reprimanded? No. She may have gone out of her 'jurisdiction', but at least she didn't slap the kid, as what would of happend a century ago. Verbal repremand, and a promise not to outstep one's bounds.
Now I don't know what else you could do to a kid who's already been suspended more than once. I'd say tell the parents to make sure his 'evil twin' didn't come to school Monday, and that he better be replaced by a more considerate kid, or the suspensions may continue, and if need be, expulsion.
So should the teacher be severely reprimanded? No. She may have gone out of her 'jurisdiction', but at least she didn't slap the kid, as what would of happend a century ago. Verbal repremand, and a promise not to outstep one's bounds.
Now I don't know what else you could do to a kid who's already been suspended more than once. I'd say tell the parents to make sure his 'evil twin' didn't come to school Monday, and that he better be replaced by a more considerate kid, or the suspensions may continue, and if need be, expulsion.
1) No, I don't agree. I think there should be more discipline in schools, and codify perhaps the soap treatment. Have another teacher present to make sure the codes are followed. American schools, daycares etc are out of control. Alot of this is because of the response we see right here on this site- this entitlement to public education with no consequence for the childrens or the parents actions while in those public schools.
I know where English Horn is coming from- in Russia, this of course would not be tolerated. I have a Russian friend who kept a report card from a 1rst grade teacher that said "needs more spankings"
2) Fine the parent a percentage of thier income. Perhaps even garnish thier wages and make them pay for thier kid in school. Amazing how money will make a parent become much more interested in education and perhaps think less of public school as thier personal baby sitting service.
I know where English Horn is coming from- in Russia, this of course would not be tolerated. I have a Russian friend who kept a report card from a 1rst grade teacher that said "needs more spankings"
2) Fine the parent a percentage of thier income. Perhaps even garnish thier wages and make them pay for thier kid in school. Amazing how money will make a parent become much more interested in education and perhaps think less of public school as thier personal baby sitting service.
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Do you agree with school district officials who suspended the teacher?
No. Not one bit. She may have overstepped her bounds based on the way the rules are written, but she did no harm to this child. She should be reminded that it is not her place to administer such punishments, but that should be the end of it.
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If yes, What do you think is the appropriate way to punish unruly students?
Good grief, what a question. I personally am for spankings and such, but I don't think it is the place of a teacher in a public school to issue such discipline. It is the parent's responsibility. As such, I would make it inconvenient for the parent(s) of the child to allow him to continue to behave in such a manner. Call them for a meeting, hound them about a meeting until they come in for one each time the child acts up.
In elementary school, they issued spankings for unruly behavior. It was an opt-in program where the parent(s) of each student signed a permission slip stating whether they would allow spankings. My mother refused, she felt it was her place to punish me. I was spanked only once in my entire life, but I was a pretty well behaved kid. She spanked me for running away from the babysitter's during the day, getting lost, and not finding my way home until late at night. I was 7 years old. She cried more than I did, and seeing how much I had hurt her hurt me way more than the spanking ever could have...
One thing that worked at my junior high school was in school suspensions. The child would be given a suspension for say 3 days. Rather than missing school for 3 days, they reported to home room each day where they picked up their work for the day. Then they reported to another class where they were isolated, and did all of their class work by themselves. The room was built in the gymnasium, and was actually like 6 small rooms with nothing but a desk in each one. The child sat by themselves. They did not get to go to recess, and lunch was served in the room. Hardly anyone acted up, because this form of punishment sucked. Imagine being 13 years old and having to spend all day by yourself in a tiny room with no contact with your friends. The only person you saw all day was a teacher that checked on you quite often to make sure you were there and everything was okay.
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