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America's Debate > Archive > Social Issues Archive > [A] Religion
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Juber3
This is a general question that i hope leases everyone...DO you think america is becoming secular
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Danya
QUOTE(juber3 @ Dec 14 2002, 06:27 PM)
This is a general question that i hope leases everyone...DO you think america is becoming secular

If the U.S. is becoming secular it isn't happening fast enough. I think religion is little more than superstition and the more we are educated the less it's needed. This is why there is such a fight right now to force the church into our lives through the government. This may slow down the death of religion...but it won't stop it.

This is just my view and I am certain it's not shared by many and may be upsetting to some. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the matter.
Gray Seal
I personally wish it was but see no evidence that it the country is becoming more secular. It definitely is part of human nature to believe in things they want to be true. I share Danya's concern about religion, especially when involved with government. In general, people who solve problems from a religious basis ultimately have a solution which is flawed.
freedom-man
religion is for insecure people who think that a non existent big brother is watching over them. this is the 21st century not the 15th religion plunge europe into the dark ages and made the middle eastern countries into third world nations and cause the suffering of millions of innocent women. before all this started cultures respected females and worshipped mythical goddesses because they believe that women is the source of life(women giving birth)
Eeyore
America is the example of a secular government and society thriving. This is one of the main reasons were are so despised by many Muslim Fundamentalists. Our distractions and our everyday focus on the non-religious endeavors are daily examples of living without devoting much time to religious worship. We sneak the word god on our coins and in our pledge but we are concerned with starbucks and the exploits of Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt and Anna Kournikova. And when young Muslims come to America, their parents have quite a difficult time keeping the amount of focus they want placed on religion.

As to a world where God doesn't exist. Well I haven't found a faith in large part because I don't want to go anywhere where good people from all walks of life can't go, but life is too unbearable without the belief that there is more to it then this. And I think education takes you there in the long run. Too much is still a mystery. I have that vague faith and I refuse to discard it into atheism.
Basheva
I was raised in a household in which there was a very strong religious identity - but for various reasons not too much actual daily observance of rites and rituals.

My belief is as follows: I believe absolutely in a Creator. (My reasons would bore you.)

I believe that if others need the attendant rituals and observances and it helps them through life and doesn't infringe upon the freedoms and actions of others, then I applaud them.

As for religion in America, I think there is a great deal of difference in religious observance in the big city than there is in the smaller cities. If you drive through a small town on a Sunday morning, you will see scores of churches with parking lots full of cars.

However, that being said, even in a big city the street I live on is in a very mixed neighborhood - mixed ethnically, racially and religion - ly (is there such a word?) smile.gif Of the 20 or so houses on my street, only one doesn't attend a house of worship of some kind at least once a week - often more.

I do agree that probably more people have died when religion gets twisted for nefarious purposes, but I also think that if religion was not used for domination, another excuse would be used. I think that religion is the excuse, not the reason.
AuthorMusician
Politically, the US is supposed to be secular. Socially, the US is sort of spiritual but mostly materialistic.

It's probably a good thing that the Islamic fundamentalists are so crazy. They help us to keep the Falwells from going too far over the edge.

Going to church, synagogue, mosque or whatever doesn't equate to spiritualism--especially when individuals compare outfits, class of vehicle, etc. That's an old American hypocrisy.

God, by definition, is omnipresent. The idea that anyone can kick God out of anywhere contradicts this basic principle of the Divine, and so either demonstrates a lack of faith or understanding, or demonstrates a hidden motivation.

Marxism made the mistake of banning religious myth and ritual. People need myth and ritual. The US made the wiser move of retaining religious rights while limiting the sharing of political power with religion.

This has resulted in a much more entertaining nation biggrin.gif
Abs like Jesus
While I can only hope for a secular America, I don't think it is, or will be, for some time still.

People may be more materialistic here than in fundamentalist nations, but I think many people confuse indifference with secular. I would point to the 2002 court ruling about the Pledge of Allegiance and how childishly the nation reacted, rather than stopping to seriously ponder the rationale behind the ruling.

Remember the House and Senate marching out like angry little kids to recite the pledge with a particular emphasis on the "under God"? I went to a theme park in Santa Claus, Indiana, where they had a "Fourth of July Land" and the people were still all up in arms about it.

While most people don't give their beliefs much attention in their day to day lives, they do still have them. And they won't take kindly to any insinuation that their beliefs are being underminded. And it certainly doesn't help that we have elected officials who, while not directly saying it, seem to adhere to ideas of Manifest Destiny and Providence... ah, but such is life. innocent.gif wacko.gif
GoAmerica
QUOTE(Abs like Jesus @ Mar 16 2003, 02:47 AM)
People may be more materialistic here than in fundamentalist nations, but I think many people confuse indifference with secular. I would point to the 2002 court ruling about the Pledge of Allegiance and how childishly the nation reacted, rather than stopping to seriously ponder the rationale behind the ruling.

Remember the House and Senate marching out like angry little kids to recite the pledge with a particular emphasis on the "under God"?

I think people here in America were in an uproar over the court ruling on the Pledge because it happened just after 9/11 & as it's not surprising, church goers increased because of the horrible attack & the massive loss of life
Ultimatejoe
I would say that the church-goers increased not because of the huge loss of life but out of fear, plain and simple. Of course that's just conjecture.

That ruling was not only fair but to the letter of the law.
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santasdad
America is pretty secular in legal terms. Thats why the god-minded fight so hard for petty things like "under god" in the pledge, theyve lost most legal battles and want to preserve what symbols they can.

Id prefer these symbols gone as well but imo the government itself has been pretty well cleansed. Todays battles are more likely to involve the church trying to get back in, not tossed out.
nileriver
i would like the world to become secular not just america. i observe the fact that it is a form of living that helped people do just that all over the world, but on that same not it now seems to be a platform for wars and what not. my personal opinion is i dont need a book to tell me not to kill or pillage or "evil" stuff like that, i dont think that religious people should have to give up thier ability to believe in what they want but they should also see that towards other people, thier has to be a public life for everyone not just those of one faith or the other.
quarkhead
I believe that we are becoming more secular as a byproduct of the information age. As we are confronted with more and more images and information about the world and all those who dwell upon it, there is a movement, mostly unconscious, towards secularity. Our paradigm is shifting, towards including the "other" in our view of the world. While the globalization of cultures and information drives a minority to increased insularity and zealotry, the majority slowly, inexorably moves towards a greater acceptance of other faiths and paths.

Think how much more we are exposed to in today's world. We are confronted every day with people of different faiths and beliefs. For anyone who is even marginally a free thinker, increased secularity results. We may not feel it in our sense of our own faith, but it creeps in to our actions, our politics, and our thought paradigms. And because this is a change at the level of paradigm, it goes largely unnoticed. We may feel the same as ever, but the range of our collective conversation is so much wider.

And yes, I believe this is a very good thing, though some of the fallout will include the bad as well - less certainty, less security.

I know many will disagree, but in one thing at least I believe Marx hit the nail on the head: religion is the opiate of the masses. Many of the central figures upon whom the world's religions have been based have preached tolerance and free thought, and yet almost universally the structures of those religions have leaned towards intolerance and constricted thought patterns. That in itself speaks well of the core teachings of any faith, and badly of the organization of those teachings into codified ideology.
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