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Bikerdad
One thing that is often tossed about willy-nilly by some folks is the contention that Bush and/or Ashcroft and/or the VRWC and/or the Radical Religious Right and/or the Kristians and/or etc, etc... want to establish a theocracy here in America. Now, just for the record, I think that's poppycock, but I'm not starting this thread to debate whether or not these "usual villians" have such grand (or base) designs. So please, for the sake of argument alone, accept that they do, and proceed to the followup:

What would this American Christian Theocracy look like?




Moved to Casual Conversation as this is too hypothetical to debate in a constructive fashion.
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crashfourit
Well, I believe this could be for good or worse.

Let me explain some of the Chistian tenents on why I believe this:
(I'm paraphasing so bare with me)

Do to others, what you want them to do unto you.
Be obediant to the Government because they do not carry the sword for nothing.
If Governmet says not to obey God, obey God anyway.
Do not steal, muder, comit idolerty, or envy.
All are equal in the sight of God, but all have sinned against God.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Not only love your friends, but love your enamy as well.


This does not mean that Christians are perfect, they can still do wrong.

Some of the most hatefull people can be 'Chistians'.

Some examples of a Christian theocrasy or states with sinificant Christain influance:
Roman Empire: past 300 A.D.
Midieval European states
Some of the early U.S. History 1600-18??
Confederit States Of America

Some of these have good and bad examples.

Good: Decloration of Independence
QUOTE
WHEN in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
....
And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.


Bad: American Slavery

So I say this can go ether way. wacko.gif w00t.gif

More information:
http://www.foundingfathers.info/
Paladin Elspeth
First it would depend on which Christian group ultimately took over. There are degrees of adherence to Biblical, specifically New Testament principles.

The key to having a successful theocracy is to have the active endorsement of those governed by it. That will likely not happen until an event Christians look to, the Second Coming, takes place.

But if a theocracy was established before that time, I see these things instituted:

Congress would have to improve the inception and financing of a Homeland Department of Christian Decency.

Strict censorship of all objectionable material on the airways, particularly anything that has to do with extramarital and non-heterosexual relationships. Four-letter words would simply not be allowed.

Bible study would become a part of the curriculum in every school. If the leadership was in an expansive mood, they might just make it an elective course, such as Home Economics in some cases.

School would begin with the Pledge of Allegiance and a morning prayer.

Curfews would be enforced and, should the kids be repeat violators, the parents would be prosecuted.

Businesses would be encouraged to remain closed on Sunday. Alternatively, any and all employees who stated they wanted Sundays off for worship purposes would have to be allowed that day off.

Prohibition would return. There would be bills in the works to ban cigarettes altogether. The lotto in all of its manifestations would be condemned as gambling and there would be efforts underway to ban that.

All vices would have to go deeply underground. As a result there would be a bang-up Black Market industry.

There would be mandatory rehabilitation for prostitutes and for drug users. The rehab would be based on imposing the Twelve Steps.

Abstinence and rhythm would be taught as birth control. Condoms may or may not still be for sale, depending on whether Catholics were in power. Every effort would be made to make sure an embryo became a fetus and was born healthy at term. Single mothers would be encouraged to marry the father of their child or give up the child to be raised by a married heterosexual couple.

Health insurance is a tougher call. There are Christians who believe that people have their lot in life because that is what God intended for them or it is what they deserve. Conversely, there are Christians who believe it is their obligation to help those in need and that they should not judge others for their circumstances. These two basic factions would duke it out in Congress when it came to health care coverage and Social Security and Medicare for the elderly.

Presumably, Christians value the elderly, following the principle that their elders are entitled to their respect and support. Children who were disrespectful to their parents could be sent to Christian youth camps to learn respect.

Women would be encouraged to remain home with a national "Virtuous American Woman" PR campaign. The glass ceiling would therefore become thicker, or at least less permeable if a woman was married and had children. The woman might have to seek the permission of her husband to retain her career or to advance it.

Women who did not dress modestly in public (dress hemlines down to the knee, no breast cleavage showing, no see-through outfits) would be fined, then jailed after repeat instances. Men could not walk around with their underwear (or worse, the top of their gluteal fold) showing above their pants. (That prohibition I would endorse!)

Good Samaritan laws would be expanded, and lawsuits would be discouraged and possibly forbidden to relatives of accident victims.

Unions would probably be ruled out of existence by way of a Supreme Court decision or through legislation. Those corporate officials who were proven to be exploiting their employees would likely be scolded by their state legislators and given a fine. I don't know what they would do for repeat offenders, but it would take a lot to bring it to the attention of the authorities if there were restrictions placed on protests, as I suspect there would be.

And the rights of property owners would reign supreme, as long as they "rendered unto Caesar" (property taxes) on a timely basis.
crashfourit
QUOTE
But if a theocracy was established before that time, I see these things instituted:

Some of these things are more than likely to happen.
Some form of dress codes would be implemented.
Bible reading and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance would be commen place in school.

If we Christians turned the US into a theocrasy, people may find it better to vote for Christian Libertarians.
Lesly
I hope we "Christians" respect every man's right to his own religion (or non-belief) and never codify a theocratic government. What a bizarre, frightful, un-American possibility.
Grendel72
Well, we might see the president meet with religious leaders when deciding medical issues. We might see the president promise to write religiously based discrimination into the constitution. We might see the national motto changed from e pluribus unum, which is a noble ideal of unification, to in God we trust which is a much less noble ideal and which isn't even true for many patriotic Americans. We might have congress put the words "under God" in the pledge of alleigance that schoolchildren say every day.

I'll agree that we aren't quite a theocracy yet, but it is sheer willful blindness to ignore that the religious right in this country wish for us to be one.
logophage
Magaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale has one vision and in my opinion explores an inevitable outcome of a Christian theocracy.
Bikerdad
[quote]Congress would have to improve the inception and financing of a Homeland Department of Christian Decency.[/quote] In short, establishment of a governmental organization dedicated to promoting a specific worldview?

[quote]Strict censorship of all objectionable material on the airways, particularly anything that has to do with extramarital and non-heterosexual relationships. Four-letter words would simply not be allowed. [/quote] Speech codes for the media?

[quote]Bible study would become a part of the curriculum in every school. If the leadership was in an expansive mood, they might just make it an elective course, such as Home Economics in some cases. [/quote] Mandatory education of a specific format on the gov'ts dime?

[quote]Curfews would be enforced and, should the kids be repeat violators, the parents would be prosecuted.[/quote] Telling kids where they can and can't go, and when they can it?

[quote]Businesses would be encouraged to remain closed on Sunday. Alternatively, any and all employees who stated they wanted Sundays off for worship purposes would have to be allowed that day off.[/quote] Somebody other than the business owner dictating how the business operates?

[quote]Prohibition would return. There would be bills in the works to ban cigarettes altogether. The lotto in all of its manifestations would be condemned as gambling and there would be efforts underway to ban that.[/quote] An all-out assault on smoking?

[quote]There would be mandatory rehabilitation for prostitutes and for drug users. The rehab would be based on imposing the Twelve Steps. [/quote] Reeducation and conditioning of offenders?

[quote]Abstinence and rhythm would be taught as birth control. [/quote] Government education regarding procreation?

[quote]Condoms may or may not still be for sale, depending on whether Catholics were in power.[/quote] Restricting people's choices because their choice may be "bad for them?"

[quote]Every effort would be made to make sure an embryo became a fetus and was born healthy at term. [/quote] Well baby initiatives?

[quote]Single mothers would be encouraged to marry the father of their child or give up the child to be raised by a married heterosexual couple.[/quote] Government influencing family structure?

[quote]Health insurance is a tougher call. There are Christians who believe that people have their lot in life because that is what God intended for them or it is what they deserve. Conversely, there are Christians who believe it is their obligation to help those in need and that they should not judge others for their circumstances. These two basic factions would duke it out in Congress when it came to health care coverage and Social Security and Medicare for the elderly.[/quote] Gee, sounds like Libertarians duking it out with Socialists today...

[quote]Presumably, Christians value the elderly, following the principle that their elders are entitled to their respect and support. Children who were disrespectful to their parents could be sent to Christian youth camps to learn respect.[/quote] Mandatory sensitivity training?

[quote]Women would be encouraged to remain home with a national "Virtuous American Woman" PR campaign.[/quote] PSA's to promote an "approved behavior"?

[quote]The glass ceiling would therefore become thicker, or at least less permeable if a woman was married and had children. The woman might have to seek the permission of her husband to retain her career or to advance it.[/quote] Whether to work or not, and where to work, dependent on the choices of someone else?

[quote]Women who did not dress modestly in public (dress hemlines down to the knee, no breast cleavage showing, no see-through outfits) would be fined, then jailed after repeat instances. Men could not walk around with their underwear (or worse, the top of their gluteal fold) showing above their pants. (That prohibition I would endorse!)[/quote] Restrictions on what a person can wear?

[quote]Good Samaritan laws would be expanded, and lawsuits would be discouraged and possibly forbidden to relatives of accident victims.[/quote] By expanding GoodSam laws, do you mean the theocrats would make helping others in need mandatory?

[quote]Unions would probably be ruled out of existence by way of a Supreme Court decision or through legislation. [/quote] Voluntary economic associations under assault by government?

[quote]Those corporate officials who were proven to be exploiting their employees would likely be scolded by their state legislators and given a fine.[/quote] Minimizing abuse of subordinates?

[quote]I don't know what they would do for repeat offenders, but it would take a lot to bring it to the attention of the authorities if there were restrictions placed on protests, as I suspect there would be.[/quote] Restricting or prohibiting protests of abuse?

[quote]And the rights of property owners would reign supreme, as long as they "rendered unto Caesar" (property taxes) on a timely basis. [/quote] Taking a stance on property ownership?

hmmm.gif


hmmm.gif

So, am I to understand that aside from introducing God into the equation, things wouldn't change? dry.gif
crashfourit
QUOTE
So, am I to understand that aside from introducing God into the equation, things wouldn't change?

Socialist are allready incharge, going to a theocrosy; just change the type of socialist in power. mad.gif
Lets end Government controled education!
Paladin Elspeth
[quote=Bikerdad,Jun 19 2004, 04:45 PM] [quote]Congress would have to improve the inception and financing of a Homeland Department of Christian Decency.[/quote] In short, establishment of a governmental organization dedicated to promoting a specific worldview?

[quote]Strict censorship of all objectionable material on the airways, particularly anything that has to do with extramarital and non-heterosexual relationships. Four-letter words would simply not be allowed. [/quote] Speech codes for the media?

[quote]Bible study would become a part of the curriculum in every school. If the leadership was in an expansive mood, they might just make it an elective course, such as Home Economics in some cases. [/quote] Mandatory education of a specific format on the gov'ts dime?

[quote]Curfews would be enforced and, should the kids be repeat violators, the parents would be prosecuted.[/quote] Telling kids where they can and can't go, and when they can it?

[quote]Businesses would be encouraged to remain closed on Sunday. Alternatively, any and all employees who stated they wanted Sundays off for worship purposes would have to be allowed that day off.[/quote] Somebody other than the business owner dictating how the business operates?

[quote]Prohibition would return. There would be bills in the works to ban cigarettes altogether. The lotto in all of its manifestations would be condemned as gambling and there would be efforts underway to ban that.[/quote] An all-out assault on smoking?

[quote]There would be mandatory rehabilitation for prostitutes and for drug users. The rehab would be based on imposing the Twelve Steps. [/quote] Reeducation and conditioning of offenders?

[quote]Abstinence and rhythm would be taught as birth control. [/quote] Government education regarding procreation?

[quote]Condoms may or may not still be for sale, depending on whether Catholics were in power.[/quote] Restricting people's choices because their choice may be "bad for them?"

[quote]Every effort would be made to make sure an embryo became a fetus and was born healthy at term. [/quote] Well baby initiatives?

[quote]Single mothers would be encouraged to marry the father of their child or give up the child to be raised by a married heterosexual couple.[/quote] Government influencing family structure?

[quote]Health insurance is a tougher call. There are Christians who believe that people have their lot in life because that is what God intended for them or it is what they deserve. Conversely, there are Christians who believe it is their obligation to help those in need and that they should not judge others for their circumstances. These two basic factions would duke it out in Congress when it came to health care coverage and Social Security and Medicare for the elderly.[/quote] Gee, sounds like Libertarians duking it out with Socialists today...

[quote]Presumably, Christians value the elderly, following the principle that their elders are entitled to their respect and support. Children who were disrespectful to their parents could be sent to Christian youth camps to learn respect.[/quote] Mandatory sensitivity training?

[quote]Women would be encouraged to remain home with a national "Virtuous American Woman" PR campaign.[/quote] PSA's to promote an "approved behavior"?

[quote]The glass ceiling would therefore become thicker, or at least less permeable if a woman was married and had children. The woman might have to seek the permission of her husband to retain her career or to advance it.[/quote] Whether to work or not, and where to work, dependent on the choices of someone else?

[quote]Women who did not dress modestly in public (dress hemlines down to the knee, no breast cleavage showing, no see-through outfits) would be fined, then jailed after repeat instances. Men could not walk around with their underwear (or worse, the top of their gluteal fold) showing above their pants. (That prohibition I would endorse!)[/quote] Restrictions on what a person can wear?

[quote]Good Samaritan laws would be expanded, and lawsuits would be discouraged and possibly forbidden to relatives of accident victims.[/quote] By expanding GoodSam laws, do you mean the theocrats would make helping others in need mandatory?

[quote]Unions would probably be ruled out of existence by way of a Supreme Court decision or through legislation. [/quote] Voluntary economic associations under assault by government?

[quote]Those corporate officials who were proven to be exploiting their employees would likely be scolded by their state legislators and given a fine.[/quote] Minimizing abuse of subordinates?

[quote]I don't know what they would do for repeat offenders, but it would take a lot to bring it to the attention of the authorities if there were restrictions placed on protests, as I suspect there would be.[/quote] Restricting or prohibiting protests of abuse?

[quote]And the rights of property owners would reign supreme, as long as they "rendered unto Caesar" (property taxes) on a timely basis. [/quote] Taking a stance on property ownership?

hmmm.gif


hmmm.gif

So, am I to understand that aside from introducing God into the equation, things wouldn't change? dry.gif [/quote]
In answer to your questions of everything I said, yes, pretty much, except for your last question. Things would indeed change, and as people are not happy about helping others out now at the behest of government, they probably wouldn't be happy about it under a theocracy, either. You can change laws, but it isn't so easy to change minds and hearts.

If any government system were instituted for the peoples' own good, it would be a theocracy. Of course the peoples' "own good" would be based on an agreed-upon set of standards from the Bible. My first husband attended Bob Jones University, so I feel I have at least a grasp of what things would be like if Christian fundamentalists took over the government.

Did you think that it would mean absolute freedom? laugh.gif w00t.gif laugh.gif

Only if you agreed 100% with their standards. thumbsup.gif
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