From the NYTimes:



Question for Debate: Should Juneteenth be a national holiday?

My thoughts:
Well, Texans use any excuse to show off there BBQ recipes, therefore I'm all for it.

I voted no, at least not a national holiday where no one works etc. But I am all for more commemorations of this, as it's an important lesson. I have explained Juneteenth to my (white) co-workers every June for years and no one has ever heard of it. A positive, almost lighthearted reminder of the ending of a tragic era.

Well, I had never heard of this before, therefore SOME attention ought to be drawn to this day. National Holiday?????? Although more deserving then say "Reagan Day" I think it is too distant an event for the nation to fully embrace the holiday. It should have been made a National Holiday decades ago.

I voted "no."

Why give the greeting card industry another excuse to get in our pockets? Not to mention, national holidays are hideously expensive when you consider all the paid time off it means.

Juneteenth is a commemoration and a remembrance, but as it stands I think we've got plenty of holidays in this country and there are other historical events that could be equally justified if this one becomes a national observance.

Enough is not too much.

I for one don't think we have enough holidays. Look at all the European countries, even Canada, that has long periods of time off from work. (Some of them also celebrate Junteenth) It prevents burn out, and I think brings families together. Secondly, Juneteenth always fall on a Saturday, which a large percentage of the population already have off. If your not living to celebrate then your living to work and that just ain't right.

Canada has more civic holidays than the U.S? That's news to me.

My feeling on national holidays (in a general sense) is that they serve to distract from the significance of the event they commemorate. When you get a day off from work, do you spend time pondering the significance of your forebarers, or do you pull out the BBQ? By making the date something nationally recognized, without closing down the country (like President's Day for example) you accomplish so much more.

I don't see how getting the day off does anything besides promote people to think about a special occasion. It makes you think of the reason why you have the day off. For example can you find a child that doesn't know why we have Thanksgiving off, how about July 4. As a person in the article put it "I'm glad as .... that the U.S. got its freedom on July Fourth, but were my ancestors free that day?" Before the celebration of Juneteenth how many kids do you think know the date that the slaves were finally free. Do you think it is something worth promoting?

Definitely. "Rememberance Day" (November 11th, also known as "Armistice Day") is a national day of rememberance... We observe a moment of silence, in school we all recite In Flander's Fields, and we wear poppies on our lapel. I'd say my understanding of the First World War is far greater than my understanding of Victoria Day, when we take a day off from work to honour the Queen.

As far as Thanksgiving is concerned... you are calling that holiday a success when it presents the most blanched version of history possible. I think President's day is a better example. It's more about shopping than it is George Washington.

How about a national holiday for the 100's of thousands of Americans, mostly white, who died getting rid of it?

Either way, no. Unless I can get paid to sit at home and do nothing like everyone else that gets to enjoy the holiday...

It was not until I starting reading this topic that it occurred to me that the United States has no holiday specifically commemorating the Civil War or celebrating the end of slavery. The Civil War was one of the most important events in the country's history, and putting an end to slavery was one of our greatest achievements. Why then do we not recognize this with a holiday? On Memorial Day we remember those who died in the Civil War, but we also remember those who died in all of our other wars. The only explanation I can think of for our lack of a Civil War/end of slavery holiday is racism. Those who did not approve of advancements in civil rights fought against making Martin Luther King Day a national holiday, and I assume those same people would not wish to celebrate the end of slavery.

While I am in favor of a national holiday commemorating the Civil War and celebrating the end of slavery, I do not think it should be called Juneteenth. I think Juneteenth is a silly name. How about Emancipation Day, or Abolition Day? So I voted yes for the holiday itself, but not for the name.

Ok ..And? Is this a for or against or what point are you trying to make? Yes, I would HAVE to agree that more Whites were wanting to be rid of slavery than blacks ,(cough) because they were 'good whites'. Commemorating them is a solid reason for having another BBQ. But if we step out of an all white view of the world and what the good whites have done for indians, blacks, minorities and women, well of course we should set aside a holiday for that in itself, but maybe aside from that, a recognition of the end of slavery, as small as that event was should be at least taught in schools, and recognised as a bit important.

Hey, how about a national holiday commemorating all the whites who were against slavery, when we get a BBQ, a sort of semi holiday to celebrate the actual end of slavery which would be a psuedo remembrance day to pat white man on the back for his good deeds and would include the slaves too? That would be fitting, dontcha think D/R.

I think FiveReel made the point better than me.

My point is that regardless of what you might think those "good whites" were thinking, they died for it.

It's easy to discount the 100's of thousands of deaths by inferring they were good 'ol boys who were actually for slavery, but the fact remains they were killed in a war.

If they had not died in that war (both blacks and whites), slavery would have taken much longer to be abolished. As despicable as any of us think slavery is today, it was common, normal, legal, and accepted back then. It took extraordinary courage to go against your fellow Americans for an ideal. Is there any other country in the world that would do the same?

If we had left it up only to blacks to abolish slavery, it couldn't have happened then. The numbers couldn't support it. The whites had the numbers of significance to rebuke the travesty of that day. So, yes - there WERE more whites wanting to get rid of slavery than blacks only because of the numbers. In terms of percentage whites/blacks? Much different...but the fact remains, many more white people than black people died fighting their fellow Americans to rid the country of the scourge called slavery.

Why not celebrate THAT? Or does it have to be a "black" holiday to be legitimate?

I'm shocked to find that there are people unaware of Juneteenth- it's huge where I live, and it isn't a black thing. Here it's more of an excuse for barbecue and music, there isn't a whole lot of discussion of what it's about. It's a celebration, not dwelling on slavery.
Everyone celebrates it, it is a day for everyone as the ending of slavery was a good thing for everyone. I've gone to several Juneteenth celebrations since living here, and never seen a lack of white folks like myself in the crowd.

Certainely not, The Europeans ended slavery with no wars. They eventually gave it up, walked away, albeit leaving the Carribean Island peoples to fight for survival on their own. Here in the US the south was not inclined to do so causing a civil war. Some would not agree that this was the reason, but since you are going on that premise and its commonly accepted that the civil war was to free the slaves we can say, it was a good part of it.



Abolition was advocated as far back as the Revolutionary War by a constant but tiny minority of whites, believing that a country which built itself on civil rights could not ideologically enslave people. The Friends Society aka Quakers were the most active. However true, black slaves were not advocating abolition they were rioting and escaping and often killing whites in the process. Europeans had many more problems with rioting in the Islands. Blacks were not taking slavery well, despite our history books and films of singing accomodating field workers. http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570...t_Movement.html

The abolitionist movement was both a black and white effort which spanned nearly 100 years.

Blacks fought in the Revolutionary War, and....





Nor the situation of the slaves. You are right that white abolitionists became a tidal force, nearly 100 years in the making, but it still culminated in a horrible and devastating war to make it a done deal against a stubborn white majority.



Do you really think so? On what do you base this? If we were to count those that died on slave ships, in riots, on the underground railroad, or beaten to death and lynched, and every despicable act which was slavery, how would anyone know how many died?

The fact remains, if white people died for their own indiscretions, cruelty and ignorance, it was still white on white, so you think they should be given a new and improved BBQ? What of the basis of slavery, the underground railroad, the hardship, capture, the inhumanity of the entire history? Its about time we gave some thought to the situation, from a non white viewpoint and set the story straight. Certainely in the history of slavery one cannot say that whites suffered more?

Lincolns war was not very popular, nor was his abolitionist stance even in the North. Negroes were hanged on the streets of NYC in the riots in Manhatten against the draft, an orphanage of black children was burned to the ground. In fact NYC burned in riots against Lincolns war and the draft, the military was called in to shoot down rioters at will and the Navy attacked NYC from the harbor by cannonball. Mostly immigrants were enlisted on the promise of food, they got off a ship and enlisted, it was not as if so many went because they thought Negroes deserved freedom. Lincolns draft (the first) sent people to war because the South was threatening recesssion, it was not a general ideology to free slaves.

Nonetheless, the end justified the means, but it neednt have come to it without such stubborness and ignorance. Almost all other nations had given up slavery by then, without war. Hindsight is of course 20/20.

I agree that there should be a Holiday, and a solemn commemoration. It was a big deal, for all. I agree that Juneteenth is a stupid name. It should have a big name, be taught and remembered for everyone who fought for or against something so long and hard and that something right prevailed, despite the ignorant few.

Juneteenth is obviously controversial, so why don't you campaign instead for additional paid vacation days, either with individual employers, or as an addition to statutory minimums?

Then you can take a day off work to commemorate whatever is important to you, without forcing anyone else to do so. Everybody gets an extra day off if they want it, and nobody loses by it.

In a day of instant communication, it's hard to imagine that it took tyo months to get out the message that the war is over, and the slaves are free. I do recall however, that the Battle of New Orleans was fought after the Peace Treaty had been signed for the War of 1812.

Living in a Northern state, where slavery never existed to start with, I have never heard of a day to celebrate it. "Juneteenth" sounds very ambiguous. One of the posters mentioned that it is usually on a Saturday. Is there an actual date tied to this event, or did that get lost in tradition?

Juneteenth = June nineteenth. From the juneteenth website:



I think the spirit of Juneteenth is important to celebrate. I have participated in several Juneteenth celebrations, performing at some and just attending others, and the overall vibe was that of remembrance and celebration of the struggles of EVERYONE who helped demolish and abolish slavery in the U.S. and focusing on the efforts to promote unity and 'brotherhood' today. While it is not just a Black holiday (nor should it be), Blacks are the vast majority (at least locally) of those who celebrate Juneteenth, I guess because its origins are of Black Emancipation...

I think we have enough national holidays, but I think the idea of Juneteenth being a national holiday makes a lot of sense...it is a HUGE part of our history and it makes sense that we celebrate the freedom that was finally afforded to Blacks.

We do have a holiday for that, called Memorial Day. It used to be called "Decoration Day" and was started immediately after the Civil War for those who died.