Full Version: Bush Campaign Flips the Nazi Card
From George W Bush's official site comes their latest video Kerry's Coalition of the "Wild Eyed"
The ad uses pieces of submissions of a contest to Moveon.org that contained Hitler parallels and were removed from the site and denounced by MoveOn.org according to http://slate.msn.com/id/2103033/
Given the following assumptions:
1) Kerry never endorsed the orginal Hitler ads in any fashion.
2) Even moveon.org removed the ads and denounced them.
Questions for debate:
1) Is this ad even remotely acceptable, even for usual negative campaign tactics?
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
The ad uses pieces of submissions of a contest to Moveon.org that contained Hitler parallels and were removed from the site and denounced by MoveOn.org according to http://slate.msn.com/id/2103033/
QUOTE
Six months ago, MoveOn.org held a contest to find the best amateur ad against President Bush. The group invited people to make ads and submit them to its Web site. Some idiot spliced images of Bush together with images of Adolf Hitler, evidently trying to make Bush look like a warmonger. His submissions, which arrived with 1,500 others—too many to be screened quickly—were posted on the contest Web site. As soon as MoveOn.org leaders realized what was in the ad, they removed and denounced it.
(links in original cite for reference)Given the following assumptions:
1) Kerry never endorsed the orginal Hitler ads in any fashion.
2) Even moveon.org removed the ads and denounced them.
Questions for debate:
1) Is this ad even remotely acceptable, even for usual negative campaign tactics?
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
1) Is this ad even remotely acceptable, even for usual negative campaign tactics?
No, it is absolutely unacceptable for The President of the United States to lower himself to this level and compare his opponent to Hitler. You cannot compare your opponent to one of the biggest mass murderers in history and expect to get away with it.
I also have to say that I'm glad someone in the media finally reported on this, I must have written almost every major news publication out there about it.
The article made me smile just a bit since I have been making exactly the same arguments over in this thread for a few days.
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
Well the two kind of go hand in hand I think. I am hoping that this will hurt Bush, because to stoop to this level is really completely and utterly unacceptable. The Democrats (even with their alleged high levels of "negativity") have never stooped to this level, and if they had I would be saying exactly the same thing about them.
No, it is absolutely unacceptable for The President of the United States to lower himself to this level and compare his opponent to Hitler. You cannot compare your opponent to one of the biggest mass murderers in history and expect to get away with it.
I also have to say that I'm glad someone in the media finally reported on this, I must have written almost every major news publication out there about it.
The article made me smile just a bit since I have been making exactly the same arguments over in this thread for a few days.
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
Well the two kind of go hand in hand I think. I am hoping that this will hurt Bush, because to stoop to this level is really completely and utterly unacceptable. The Democrats (even with their alleged high levels of "negativity") have never stooped to this level, and if they had I would be saying exactly the same thing about them.
This is also discussed here
I consider this ad suffering from the argumentative fallacy of association. It attempts to say "Michael Moore is left wing, and Kerry is left wing as well. You wouldn't want someone who acts like Michael Moore in office, would you?" Moveon.org and Michael Moore are not connected to the Kerry campaign at all. I haven't heard Kerry mention or offer them any positions in the white house.
Kerry holding the Bush administration responsible for what Ann Coulter said would be the exact same as what this ad is trying to do.
Anyone who knows about the Nazi parts is smart enough to know that these clippings were not supported by Moveon.org. They even apologized and took them off their web.
Neither. The real people who are going to decide this election won't even look up Moveon.org or Bushs website. They're just going to cast a vote for whomever they feel like. If it reaches mainstream parts of the news, like Hardball, they're going to tear it apart, which would be bad for Bush. Chris Matthews would have a field day (where ever he is!).
QUOTE
1) Is this ad even remotely acceptable, even for usual negative campaign tactics?
I consider this ad suffering from the argumentative fallacy of association. It attempts to say "Michael Moore is left wing, and Kerry is left wing as well. You wouldn't want someone who acts like Michael Moore in office, would you?" Moveon.org and Michael Moore are not connected to the Kerry campaign at all. I haven't heard Kerry mention or offer them any positions in the white house.
Kerry holding the Bush administration responsible for what Ann Coulter said would be the exact same as what this ad is trying to do.
Anyone who knows about the Nazi parts is smart enough to know that these clippings were not supported by Moveon.org. They even apologized and took them off their web.
QUOTE
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
Neither. The real people who are going to decide this election won't even look up Moveon.org or Bushs website. They're just going to cast a vote for whomever they feel like. If it reaches mainstream parts of the news, like Hardball, they're going to tear it apart, which would be bad for Bush. Chris Matthews would have a field day (where ever he is!).
) Is this ad even remotely acceptable, even for usual negative campaign tactics?
Honestly, I think stuff this outrageous is only objectionable because it's so lazy. I'm much more offended by fudging of facts about votes, etc. Anyone actually swayed by the ubiquitous comparisons of this or that political figure to Hitler is kinda an intellectual leaf blowing in the wind; they can probably be "reprogramed" by the next image they see.
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
Well, now the Bush campaign is pretending to be outraged by the pretend outrage of the Kerry camp, in response to the ad attacking Kerry for not bowing to the Dubya camp's pretend outrage at the Move On ad. I think the ad will fire up some already supporting Bush, some Kerry supporters who are "outraged", perhaps a few undecideds who happen upon it will be nudged one way or the other (temporarily), and everyone else will roll their eyes. It's like the Cheney f-bomb incident: people feel inclined to play up their minor surprise because Bush supporters did exactly that a few months ago.
This election's just going to get uglier and uglier . . .
Honestly, I think stuff this outrageous is only objectionable because it's so lazy. I'm much more offended by fudging of facts about votes, etc. Anyone actually swayed by the ubiquitous comparisons of this or that political figure to Hitler is kinda an intellectual leaf blowing in the wind; they can probably be "reprogramed" by the next image they see.
2) Would an expected backlash from this ad help Kerry or hurt Bush?
Well, now the Bush campaign is pretending to be outraged by the pretend outrage of the Kerry camp, in response to the ad attacking Kerry for not bowing to the Dubya camp's pretend outrage at the Move On ad. I think the ad will fire up some already supporting Bush, some Kerry supporters who are "outraged", perhaps a few undecideds who happen upon it will be nudged one way or the other (temporarily), and everyone else will roll their eyes. It's like the Cheney f-bomb incident: people feel inclined to play up their minor surprise because Bush supporters did exactly that a few months ago.
This election's just going to get uglier and uglier . . .
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The issues posed in this debate are being discussed in this thread: Campaigning on Negativity
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