Full Version: Smoke, or stoned
Many here are herb smokers, they defend the herb in relation to life and want it legalized. I loved the herb, but I cant do it anymore. I just get tired, hence Ive had a different view on it.
I have some problems with it. Smoking herb changes ones personality if done habitually. This is percieved as 'good' by the smoker, because the stress is all gone, but may not be by the non-or ex-smoker in relation.
You know smokers, they are all like, 'mellow out', because they are high, but its not reality, its just induced. Its difficult for a non-smoker because its not real, it comes across like bullcrap.
The high person many times is in their own thing, playing in their own head...but more so.. dedicated to the copping, getting that bag, finding friends that want to do it with them, it becomes a drug culture, they no longer have friends that dont smoke and cant relate to anyone who does not.
But many people dont relate, because you are basically a silly dimwit on it and disconnected from others, yet YOU dont know this, will never know it. Stoners only get along with other stoners, unless you are concentrated and a serious intellectual or artist and youve smoked so much it doesnt affect you much.
Friends have brought up to me Bob Marley who smoked his whole life, but facts are, not many of us are Bob Marley. Most of us have to have jobs, but more so have connective relationships. If you stone yourself continually, how can you have a relationship? What part of your mind is real to your partner? How do you even know your mind?
I would like to debate here, although in Casual Conversation:
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
B] Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse? As in, your partner would not deal with it and you chose the drug? Because, we know, its the good one, nothing wrong with it.
I have some problems with it. Smoking herb changes ones personality if done habitually. This is percieved as 'good' by the smoker, because the stress is all gone, but may not be by the non-or ex-smoker in relation.
You know smokers, they are all like, 'mellow out', because they are high, but its not reality, its just induced. Its difficult for a non-smoker because its not real, it comes across like bullcrap.
The high person many times is in their own thing, playing in their own head...but more so.. dedicated to the copping, getting that bag, finding friends that want to do it with them, it becomes a drug culture, they no longer have friends that dont smoke and cant relate to anyone who does not.
But many people dont relate, because you are basically a silly dimwit on it and disconnected from others, yet YOU dont know this, will never know it. Stoners only get along with other stoners, unless you are concentrated and a serious intellectual or artist and youve smoked so much it doesnt affect you much.
Friends have brought up to me Bob Marley who smoked his whole life, but facts are, not many of us are Bob Marley. Most of us have to have jobs, but more so have connective relationships. If you stone yourself continually, how can you have a relationship? What part of your mind is real to your partner? How do you even know your mind?
I would like to debate here, although in Casual Conversation:
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
B] Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse? As in, your partner would not deal with it and you chose the drug? Because, we know, its the good one, nothing wrong with it.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
I do think there is a difference between a smoker and a stoner. As you pointed out earlier a stoners life revolves around smoking, their life is a constant paper chase. As with alcohol, as I feel with all other drugs, moderation is the key. In other words the difference is the same as a social drinker and a drunk, smoker and a stoner.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
I think it's called denial, it helps them cope with their problem. Addiction is always a dependance on some type of chemical, whether it's THC or or alcohol.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
I'm currently in a relationship with a girl who smoke weed daily. I have been trying to hint at her to quit, but I think she's a stoner. (Still in denial) I used to be her smoking buddy, but have been pretty clean for the past 4.5 years. I'm still undecided whether or not I should end it because of the serious consequences it might have on both of us if I do, so I'm still trying to rehabilitate her.
I do think there is a difference between a smoker and a stoner. As you pointed out earlier a stoners life revolves around smoking, their life is a constant paper chase. As with alcohol, as I feel with all other drugs, moderation is the key. In other words the difference is the same as a social drinker and a drunk, smoker and a stoner.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
I think it's called denial, it helps them cope with their problem. Addiction is always a dependance on some type of chemical, whether it's THC or or alcohol.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
I'm currently in a relationship with a girl who smoke weed daily. I have been trying to hint at her to quit, but I think she's a stoner. (Still in denial) I used to be her smoking buddy, but have been pretty clean for the past 4.5 years. I'm still undecided whether or not I should end it because of the serious consequences it might have on both of us if I do, so I'm still trying to rehabilitate her.
Great questions, Artemise.
I really think this is an aspect of the legalization debate which is rarely examined by those in favor of legalization.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
Of course. Moderation is always the key. The problem with "herb" (I've always called it "weed") is that the user loses all sense of moderation. They become disconnected (over time) between what is moderate and what is excessive.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Everyone thinks that their addiction isn't as bad as someone else's. Smokers don't see a problem, heavy drinkers don't see a problem. Tokers also do not see a problem. It is simply a common denominator of addiction.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Psychology is definitely affected. Motivation is lost. Marijuana makes the user feel "mellow", without a care in the world. It is a great way to "escape", but just like others escapes, reality never really leaves. This makes the user want to return to the non-committal world they experienced when high. A vicious cycle.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
No, I have never been an addict. However, I have four brothers, and they are all heavy users of pot. They are not so different from me, except their drug use. While I graduated from high school and then college only one of my brothers graduated from high school. None have gone to college. My brothers all starting using when they were in high school. I know it affected their motivation and their entire futures. Since they starting using so young, it frames their entire lives.
Marijuana has a very subtle effect on the person's personality, but one that can be observed over time. It doesn't make people into bad people. It doesn't destroy ambition or drive, it merely suppresses it (to differing degrees). It numbs pain, reduces stress, and it slowly, insidiously destroys the lives of those who use it. It is the same as any other drug, just as harmful, yet much more subtle in its effects.
I really think this is an aspect of the legalization debate which is rarely examined by those in favor of legalization.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
Of course. Moderation is always the key. The problem with "herb" (I've always called it "weed") is that the user loses all sense of moderation. They become disconnected (over time) between what is moderate and what is excessive.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Everyone thinks that their addiction isn't as bad as someone else's. Smokers don't see a problem, heavy drinkers don't see a problem. Tokers also do not see a problem. It is simply a common denominator of addiction.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Psychology is definitely affected. Motivation is lost. Marijuana makes the user feel "mellow", without a care in the world. It is a great way to "escape", but just like others escapes, reality never really leaves. This makes the user want to return to the non-committal world they experienced when high. A vicious cycle.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
No, I have never been an addict. However, I have four brothers, and they are all heavy users of pot. They are not so different from me, except their drug use. While I graduated from high school and then college only one of my brothers graduated from high school. None have gone to college. My brothers all starting using when they were in high school. I know it affected their motivation and their entire futures. Since they starting using so young, it frames their entire lives.
Marijuana has a very subtle effect on the person's personality, but one that can be observed over time. It doesn't make people into bad people. It doesn't destroy ambition or drive, it merely suppresses it (to differing degrees). It numbs pain, reduces stress, and it slowly, insidiously destroys the lives of those who use it. It is the same as any other drug, just as harmful, yet much more subtle in its effects.
Is there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
Are you asking what the difference is between a casual smoker and a stoner? I've always thought of a stoner as anyone who smokes weed, just like a drinker (of alcohol) drinks, so I see no difference between the two. But if you are asking "what defines excessive weed smoking" then I have a different answer. I'd have to say that normal use of weed (or any drug) will show positive effects on one's life, while abuse of weed will show negative effects.
Real Example 1 ("use"): I myself smoked a lot of weed at college, and it definitely got me through some tough, stressful times. When I had a lot of work to do, I would make sure to finish it all before partying, and then reward myself by smoking a bowl. I smoked a lot, probably an average of every other day, with some weeks smoking every day, and other weeks not smoking at all. I ended up graduating Summa Cum Laude from a college where the average student came in with a SAT score of over 1300.
Real Example 2 ("abuse"): A friend of mine, who was an A-student in high school and went through all the honors classes, was introduced to weed by his roommate his first semester in college. He smoked so much that he started skipping classes and not doing all the assigned work. He ended up just barely staying in because he failed so many classes that semester. Luckily, he realized he had a substance abuse problem and quit at the end of the semester. I think he ended up graduating with a GPA over 3.0. Interestingly enough, he never owned any weed of his own, but instead was just offered it a lot and never turned it down.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
I don't think it's any different at all. I think you can get addicted to anything that is pleasurable in some way. In college I had two groups of friends. One was the stoner group, and the other was the videogame group. You can probably guess which group I hung out with the most.
Both groups sometimes threw off other responsibilities in favor of their addiction, both were clique-ish in the sense that if you weren't participating in the group's favorite activity then you felt shunned or "out of the loop", and most people in both groups probably thought that they weren't addicted to anything.
I see any addiction as being bad. It's like they say: "Everything in moderation."
Do you think the basic psychology is not affected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
I think how much that pot affects a certain person varies for everybody. Some people can smoke it and can still carry out an intelligent verbal debate or solve a complex math problem, others smoke it and their IQ is suddenly divided in half. If smoking pot detrimentally affects your life then you should probably smoke less, and if that doesn't work, stop completely.
The funny thing is that you always notice the screwups who are totally addicted to pot, but there are also responsible people out there that hide it so well that you would never know unless they told you. I bet most people have had an interaction with a responsible pot smoker at least once and their life without even realizing it. Not every pot smoker acts as the stereotypical tv/movie version would. Like they say, nobody ever notices when the trains are on time.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
I don't really like how this question is worded... sound kind of loaded to me. I have never personally been in this situation, but I like to think that I would sacrifice my relationship with someone to defend my beliefs at the drop of a hat. My fiancee doesn't smoke anymore, but she does have the same viewpoints as I do regarding marijuana, along with most other things as well, so we can usually come to a compromise on the things that we enjoy.
I usually smoke almost every day, but I'm currently taking a few weeks off (like I do every once in a while) just to prove to myself that I don't need it. However, I told my fiancee that I am planning on stopping completely once we have kids, since I don't want to negatively affect their lives through any stubbornness on my part.
I think this question would be better if it was asking about a stubborn adherence to an addiction, not just drug/substance abuse. Relationships can be ended over any addiction that takes time away from the other person in the relationship, so it doesn't have to be restricted to just drugs.
Are you asking what the difference is between a casual smoker and a stoner? I've always thought of a stoner as anyone who smokes weed, just like a drinker (of alcohol) drinks, so I see no difference between the two. But if you are asking "what defines excessive weed smoking" then I have a different answer. I'd have to say that normal use of weed (or any drug) will show positive effects on one's life, while abuse of weed will show negative effects.
Real Example 1 ("use"): I myself smoked a lot of weed at college, and it definitely got me through some tough, stressful times. When I had a lot of work to do, I would make sure to finish it all before partying, and then reward myself by smoking a bowl. I smoked a lot, probably an average of every other day, with some weeks smoking every day, and other weeks not smoking at all. I ended up graduating Summa Cum Laude from a college where the average student came in with a SAT score of over 1300.
Real Example 2 ("abuse"): A friend of mine, who was an A-student in high school and went through all the honors classes, was introduced to weed by his roommate his first semester in college. He smoked so much that he started skipping classes and not doing all the assigned work. He ended up just barely staying in because he failed so many classes that semester. Luckily, he realized he had a substance abuse problem and quit at the end of the semester. I think he ended up graduating with a GPA over 3.0. Interestingly enough, he never owned any weed of his own, but instead was just offered it a lot and never turned it down.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
I don't think it's any different at all. I think you can get addicted to anything that is pleasurable in some way. In college I had two groups of friends. One was the stoner group, and the other was the videogame group. You can probably guess which group I hung out with the most.
Both groups sometimes threw off other responsibilities in favor of their addiction, both were clique-ish in the sense that if you weren't participating in the group's favorite activity then you felt shunned or "out of the loop", and most people in both groups probably thought that they weren't addicted to anything.
I see any addiction as being bad. It's like they say: "Everything in moderation."
Do you think the basic psychology is not affected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
I think how much that pot affects a certain person varies for everybody. Some people can smoke it and can still carry out an intelligent verbal debate or solve a complex math problem, others smoke it and their IQ is suddenly divided in half. If smoking pot detrimentally affects your life then you should probably smoke less, and if that doesn't work, stop completely.
The funny thing is that you always notice the screwups who are totally addicted to pot, but there are also responsible people out there that hide it so well that you would never know unless they told you. I bet most people have had an interaction with a responsible pot smoker at least once and their life without even realizing it. Not every pot smoker acts as the stereotypical tv/movie version would. Like they say, nobody ever notices when the trains are on time.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
I don't really like how this question is worded... sound kind of loaded to me. I have never personally been in this situation, but I like to think that I would sacrifice my relationship with someone to defend my beliefs at the drop of a hat. My fiancee doesn't smoke anymore, but she does have the same viewpoints as I do regarding marijuana, along with most other things as well, so we can usually come to a compromise on the things that we enjoy.
I usually smoke almost every day, but I'm currently taking a few weeks off (like I do every once in a while) just to prove to myself that I don't need it. However, I told my fiancee that I am planning on stopping completely once we have kids, since I don't want to negatively affect their lives through any stubbornness on my part.
I think this question would be better if it was asking about a stubborn adherence to an addiction, not just drug/substance abuse. Relationships can be ended over any addiction that takes time away from the other person in the relationship, so it doesn't have to be restricted to just drugs.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
It's not even so much frequency of use as it is the obsessive nature. When everything has to be about weed, when you can't have a conversation with someone on any topic without them eventually working it into weed.
Being a stoner is a phase, unfortunately some get stuck in that phase.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
Because it is.
I smoked cigarettes for the longest time, and when I quit smoking it was hell on Earth. When I was in college I smoked weed a lot, and though I still do smoke on occasion I've gone for months on end without smoking and never felt any ill effects as I did when I quit smoking cigs.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
It seems ridiculous to point out the typical "living in his parents basement" stoner and say that is what effect smoking pot has on people, because there are losers who have never smoked a joint in their life and there are successful people who smoke every day to take the edge off.
Certainly, pot has a temporary psychological effect, that's why people smoke it, but any long term effect must be laid at the feet of the individual who smokes it.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
No. I left a bad relationship where substance abuse lead to violence, but I suppose that since the substance he chose to abuse was alcohol rather than any illegal drug it's all fine...
I dunno, I don't think I know anyone who doesn't smoke on occasion, but I also don't spend a lot of time with people who smoke too much, because I find stoners to be boring.
It's not even so much frequency of use as it is the obsessive nature. When everything has to be about weed, when you can't have a conversation with someone on any topic without them eventually working it into weed.
Being a stoner is a phase, unfortunately some get stuck in that phase.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
Because it is.
I smoked cigarettes for the longest time, and when I quit smoking it was hell on Earth. When I was in college I smoked weed a lot, and though I still do smoke on occasion I've gone for months on end without smoking and never felt any ill effects as I did when I quit smoking cigs.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
It seems ridiculous to point out the typical "living in his parents basement" stoner and say that is what effect smoking pot has on people, because there are losers who have never smoked a joint in their life and there are successful people who smoke every day to take the edge off.
Certainly, pot has a temporary psychological effect, that's why people smoke it, but any long term effect must be laid at the feet of the individual who smokes it.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
No. I left a bad relationship where substance abuse lead to violence, but I suppose that since the substance he chose to abuse was alcohol rather than any illegal drug it's all fine...
I dunno, I don't think I know anyone who doesn't smoke on occasion, but I also don't spend a lot of time with people who smoke too much, because I find stoners to be boring.
QUOTE(Artemise @ Jul 1 2004, 07:50 AM)
But many people dont relate, because you are basically a silly dimwit on it and disconnected from others, yet YOU dont know this, will never know it.
Most of us have to have jobs, but more so have connective relationships. If you stone yourself continually, how can you have a relationship? What part of your mind is real to your partner? How do you even know your mind?
Most of us have to have jobs, but more so have connective relationships. If you stone yourself continually, how can you have a relationship? What part of your mind is real to your partner? How do you even know your mind?
I take serious issue with you generalizing potheads as "silly dimwits" and that they don't and can't work.
both of my cousins have full time jobs, and are in fact working on producing a full length hip-hop album (if you are not a minor, cop or snitch, check out their website under my profile) I would share their music, but it is highly explicit.
I myself cannot smoke right now, as I risk going to prison by doing so, but when I could I worked at taco bell (I was only 18) often high, and pizza hut (not one day sober
) I maintained plenty of relationships with people that couldn't smoke such as my older brother who was on parole. I had a connective relationship with these people as well. by the way, before I started smoking herb I was an extremely violent person. since I started smoking herb, I have mellowed out a lot.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
yes, someone who simply is a smoker is someone that puffs at most once a week, or only on special occasions. a stoner is someone whose blazed at LEAST once a day. I am a stoner at heart, and only don't puff because probation says so.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others?
I don't think stoners are nessecarily addicted to weed. sure some people that smoke ARE addicted. MOST are not.there are many, many people that smoke for medical reasons (me for instance. it treats my anger and depression) some smoke simply to relax, just as some people drink a beer or two to do so (is anyone that ingest alcohol an alcoholic in your view?)
now for the sake of argument, grendel makes a great point:
QUOTE
When I was in college I smoked weed a lot, and though I still do smoke on occasion I've gone for months on end without smoking and never felt any ill effects
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
no. but there are many things which effect your psychology. ever seen a heavy cig smoker go a few days with out one? they're irritable, crabby, and not fun to be around. I don't see people wanting to make tobacco illegal. this is actually my desired effect from smoking weed. as I've said, I used to be very violent and had a major issue controlling it. when I started smoking weed I got a lot less violent, and can now control my anger much better, even though I haven't smoked for nearly a year.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
again, I do not view my use of mota as "substance abuse". but no, I have never sacrificed a relationship or quality of life for my stubborn adherence to my substance use. I am one of those however that doesn't desire an extremely high standard of living. all one needs is a roof over their head, food in their belly, and some form of transportation. a small apartment is more then enough for shelter, you don't need to eat more then twice a day, and a bike and bus is sufficient (barely) for transportation. this idea that in order to be successful you need a three bedroom home (or more) more food then you know what to do with and two or three cars, and need to make at least 100,000 a year is ridiculous. people get by one far less, and besides, you can't take it all with you when you die. so no, I have never sacrificed a standard of living or relationship over my pot use.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
Yes, I smoke. I stopped being a stoner a long time ago.
B] Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Marijuana has not proved to be addictive. I have stopped many times for lengthy periods. I choose to resume smoking instead of killing people.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
You want to say that to my face? I didn't think so, I am not crazy.........oh look Ice Cream, and a puppy.....so cute. what?
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse?
Absolutely. I was kicked out of my father's house.
Yes, I smoke. I stopped being a stoner a long time ago.
B] Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Marijuana has not proved to be addictive. I have stopped many times for lengthy periods. I choose to resume smoking instead of killing people.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
You want to say that to my face? I didn't think so, I am not crazy.........oh look Ice Cream, and a puppy.....so cute. what?
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse?
Absolutely. I was kicked out of my father's house.
QUOTE(Artemise @ Jul 1 2004, 09:50 AM)
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
B] Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse? As in, your partner would not deal with it and you chose the drug? Because, we know, its the good one, nothing wrong with it.
B] Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse? As in, your partner would not deal with it and you chose the drug? Because, we know, its the good one, nothing wrong with it.
QUOTE
The difference is the degree of usage if nothing else. I don't buy dope, and don't feel any need to spark up with any frequency. If offered to me I might accept the wacky tobaccky, but I might not. Grass is very much a social drug and people will spark up anytime and anywhere. IMHO a stoner is someone who basically functions only with a joint in their mouth and not at all without it.
Everyone thinks their vice isn't as bad as the other guy's. Drunks look down on drug addicts. Drug addicts sneer at overeaters. Overeaters wag their finger at gamblers. Gamblers are happy they aren't sex addicts. Those who abuse marijuana have their reasons and rationalizations down pat too. People will always need groups they can look down their nose at.
Drugs alter our consciousness. If they don't why bother taking them? That's part of the allure. Sure, others notice when you can function without a cup of coffee, a cigarette or a blunt. Many of us are skilled actors who can give Academy Award winning performances when it comes to hiding our addictions from our family and friends. Our capactity for duplicity and self-delusion knows no bounds.
As to your last question Artemise, I have never been in a relationship with someone who was chemically dependent. I'd like to think I would be as supportive as possible if I were to find myself hooked up with a Courtney Love type. However, compassion and patience only go so far. At some point you have to know when you can go no further with someone whose love for the drug is greater than their love for the person.
Marijuana addiction is no more acceptable than alcohol or gambling.
From the professional in me- addiction is addiction is addiction, whether it is pot, coke, coffee, cigs, sex or gambling- if it becomes a compulsion you can not do without and negatively impacts your life, it is bad.
If you do it for fun every once in a while for a little fun mind bending experiance, whether it be the adrenelin rush of a bungee jump, a gambling trip to Vegas once a year, getting blazed at a hip hop album release party when the blunts are being passed (
to NT) or getting wasted at New Years- these are adult vices that are acceptable as long as they don't hurt anyone and don't become a compulsion that you can not control.
I don't do it now because I don't want my kids to think it is acceptable. That is the only reason. They can make that decision after they leave my house, not before.
I have lost one relationship due to cocaine addiction. It was sad she chose coke over me, but I got over it!
If you do it for fun every once in a while for a little fun mind bending experiance, whether it be the adrenelin rush of a bungee jump, a gambling trip to Vegas once a year, getting blazed at a hip hop album release party when the blunts are being passed (
to NT) or getting wasted at New Years- these are adult vices that are acceptable as long as they don't hurt anyone and don't become a compulsion that you can not control. I don't do it now because I don't want my kids to think it is acceptable. That is the only reason. They can make that decision after they leave my house, not before.
I have lost one relationship due to cocaine addiction. It was sad she chose coke over me, but I got over it!
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Jul 1 2004, 02:45 PM)
Marijuana addiction is no more acceptable than alcohol or gambling.
NT, Great post.
I would like to address your last comment.
Is it LESS acceptable? Alcohol is acccepted and legal in every state. Gambling is accepted and legal in a lot of states.
It is true that some individuals are unable to control their alcohol consumption or the amount that they wager. Does that mean that alcohol and gambling is bad for everyone?
Should we treat Marijuana the same as Alcohol and Gambling.
My observation would be that smokers use cannabis (ooh - have I set a precedent and used the correct terminology?) to help them relax, and that stoners can't really relax until they have smoked some.
In college I used to smoke a fair bit for a year or so - once or twice a week, I'd say. A few of the guys I was friendly with at the time, one of whom I shared a flat with, were much heavier users than me. My flatmate in particular, got to a point where he didn't feel able to face the world in the mornings until he'd had a "spliff".
He wasn't a big drinker, and he had been horrified to see an old school friend of his become an alcoholic. I tried to tell him that there was not much difference between needing a spliff before getting up and needing a scotch or a vodka, but he didn't see it.
I smoked less and less, and hardly touch the stuff these days. I can't even roll them properly any more, though this has as much to do with stopping smoking cigarettes as with anything else. I'll still occasionally accept some if offered, but I don't seek it out.
We drifted apart after that. Mainly because stoners are, well, very boring company unless you are stoned as well. Alcohol has a bigger and more dangerous downside (more association with violence, and much more clear-cut health risks), but at least some drunks are funny and some alcoholics are dynamic and forthright. I may be moving in the wrong circles, but most stoners I've met have been rather uninteresting once you get to know them. They seem to be fairly rootless, as well.
In college I used to smoke a fair bit for a year or so - once or twice a week, I'd say. A few of the guys I was friendly with at the time, one of whom I shared a flat with, were much heavier users than me. My flatmate in particular, got to a point where he didn't feel able to face the world in the mornings until he'd had a "spliff".
He wasn't a big drinker, and he had been horrified to see an old school friend of his become an alcoholic. I tried to tell him that there was not much difference between needing a spliff before getting up and needing a scotch or a vodka, but he didn't see it.
I smoked less and less, and hardly touch the stuff these days. I can't even roll them properly any more, though this has as much to do with stopping smoking cigarettes as with anything else. I'll still occasionally accept some if offered, but I don't seek it out.
We drifted apart after that. Mainly because stoners are, well, very boring company unless you are stoned as well. Alcohol has a bigger and more dangerous downside (more association with violence, and much more clear-cut health risks), but at least some drunks are funny and some alcoholics are dynamic and forthright. I may be moving in the wrong circles, but most stoners I've met have been rather uninteresting once you get to know them. They seem to be fairly rootless, as well.
Please let me explain that I was not insulting anyone. When I said 'dimwits' that is basically my perception after the fact. Its like being sober in a room full of drunks, not very interesting. Everyone thinks they are being highly innovative and funny, but usually not. I have known friends that smoke and are really so much fun and coherant, but some people are not ones that become more interesting, so very much less so. Unless you were to film them they cannot see it, or basically wouldnt care. Should they? I dont know. I was a daily smoker once, who knows if I was coherant and together or not. Those years are a blur. One person said they liked me better then, I was 'mellow' and less confrontational. Sure I was, nothing 'meant anything'. I could smoke and all my cares were gone, all day, everyday. It was nice and different from now. Id love not to care as in those days, not possible. Life is too short to be out of it all day your whole life.
Is this a joke? or sarcasm? If not ...I dont know what to make of it. Noone is trying to demonize anyone, just speak from the heart, but it makes one wonder if you are not proving my point.
Id like to explain my last question:
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse?
I have, I was in major denial at the time. A person just left me, I was never confronted. I wish they had.
Here the juxtapositions are, ' I should not be controlled and should be able to do whatever I want to do ' , you should understand me. I use this to relax.
The other position is ' I cannot relate to you when you are stoned , you are off in your own dream, sometimes paranoid. There is a huge communication break-down. When with you (when high) I feel alone, and its a struggle to deal with you and the disconnected ramblings. Tiring for me.'
Answer: 'Well, maybe I should just find someone (else) who gets high too, and then the problem is solved. I will not stop.' Hence, a decision to only be around those who use and choose relationships based on use. Its the same as an alchoholic who finds a drinking lover other than thier sober spouse and claims, 'they understand me, you dont'.
I could say this is sad , but from a users point of view its sad as well that they are not accepted for who they are, seems to be a gap in acceptance or tolerance both ways, but what gives? The sober one walks. The high one feels justified, in the addiction until later.
People who get sober or stop using are often called hypocrites, especially when confronted by young people. (You did it!) However once you stop you can so easily see the absurd behavior and thinking processes. You have to 'deal' with someone who is not in their right mind half the time. They think they are perfectly normal, ..neither of you is most likely (ok a given), but at least one of you is not drugged.
Reality may suck, but its better than addiction? Or not?
Should one ask another to give it up becomes the BIG question. Or do you just have to walk away from people in the face of the thing. Im not one to be told what to do, so I kinda get the stubborn position of personal freedom. But how to tell someone they ARE A Blathering Idiot when high? They dont think so, they think YOU have something against the DRUG itself because you gave it up. They think its great, they think they are great-creative-unique-intelligent-fantastic on it--ugh NOT. All drugs and alchohol have this in common, the user thinks they are genious when induced and all the sober folks just 'dont get it', fuddyduddies and uptight bores, totally uncool. What a self serving, boring, sillyness based illusion, if one could see onesself.
I have often wanted to do a project-- which was to film my friends drinking and using so they could watch themselves change, maybe use it as educational material in schools.
Oprah beat me to it as next tuesday she has a show on what drunkenness looks like in an experiment. Good ideas are in the air, it just takes capital and to be fast in the doing.
Its painfully obvious this post is coming from personal experience as I just had my friend of two years walk away yet again to choose to be a stoner rather than spend only two days a week, (weekends) with me without using. First it was alchohol and I worked very hard about that, but now its 7 days a week pot smoking. We always get along when there are no chemicals or drinking together, but never when there is. He thinks its because I hate weed ( if he only knew, I love weed but not for some.) Personal demons have a lot to do with it and basically becomming 'suddenly stupid' for hours.
Maybe Im just a total hypocrite and getting high is across the board great and that I cant relate makes me just totally uncool and out of the loop. MAybe I am unreasonable? Considering my past I would never have thought Id be taking a position against herb.
I know that many can handle their drugs and alchohol, I also know that many cannot. The problem seems to be that the afflicted user does not know that they cannot. This may be the biggest argument against legalization, though this is not about that.
This might be about, tolerance and acceptance vs. watching people make bad choices, maybe about their children, the pervasive idea that 'pot is good', the drug culture in and of itself. I dont know. Of all my liberal ideals its strange that I am becoming more conservative when it comes to views on drug use, ugh. Not a pleasant position to be in for me as a live and let live idealist.
QUOTE
I myself cannot smoke right now, as I risk going to prison by doing so, but when I could I worked at taco bell (I was only 18) often high, and pizza hut (not one day sober ) I maintained plenty of relationships with people that couldn't smoke such as my older brother who was on parole. I had a connective relationship with these people as well.
Is this a joke?
or sarcasm? If not ...I dont know what to make of it. Noone is trying to demonize anyone, just speak from the heart, but it makes one wonder if you are not proving my point.Id like to explain my last question:
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse?
I have, I was in major denial at the time. A person just left me, I was never confronted. I wish they had.
Here the juxtapositions are, ' I should not be controlled and should be able to do whatever I want to do ' , you should understand me. I use this to relax.
The other position is ' I cannot relate to you when you are stoned , you are off in your own dream, sometimes paranoid. There is a huge communication break-down. When with you (when high) I feel alone, and its a struggle to deal with you and the disconnected ramblings. Tiring for me.'
Answer: 'Well, maybe I should just find someone (else) who gets high too, and then the problem is solved. I will not stop.' Hence, a decision to only be around those who use and choose relationships based on use. Its the same as an alchoholic who finds a drinking lover other than thier sober spouse and claims, 'they understand me, you dont'.
I could say this is sad , but from a users point of view its sad as well that they are not accepted for who they are, seems to be a gap in acceptance or tolerance both ways, but what gives? The sober one walks. The high one feels justified, in the addiction until later.
People who get sober or stop using are often called hypocrites, especially when confronted by young people. (You did it!) However once you stop you can so easily see the absurd behavior and thinking processes. You have to 'deal' with someone who is not in their right mind half the time. They think they are perfectly normal, ..neither of you is most likely (ok a given), but at least one of you is not drugged.
Reality may suck, but its better than addiction? Or not?Should one ask another to give it up becomes the BIG question. Or do you just have to walk away from people in the face of the thing. Im not one to be told what to do, so I kinda get the stubborn position of personal freedom. But how to tell someone they ARE A Blathering Idiot when high? They dont think so, they think YOU have something against the DRUG itself because you gave it up. They think its great, they think they are great-creative-unique-intelligent-fantastic on it--ugh NOT. All drugs and alchohol have this in common, the user thinks they are genious when induced and all the sober folks just 'dont get it', fuddyduddies and uptight bores, totally uncool. What a self serving, boring, sillyness based illusion, if one could see onesself.
I have often wanted to do a project-- which was to film my friends drinking and using so they could watch themselves change, maybe use it as educational material in schools.
Oprah beat me to it as next tuesday she has a show on what drunkenness looks like in an experiment. Good ideas are in the air, it just takes capital and to be fast in the doing.
Its painfully obvious this post is coming from personal experience as I just had my friend of two years walk away yet again to choose to be a stoner rather than spend only two days a week, (weekends) with me without using. First it was alchohol and I worked very hard about that, but now its 7 days a week pot smoking. We always get along when there are no chemicals or drinking together, but never when there is. He thinks its because I hate weed ( if he only knew, I love weed but not for some.) Personal demons have a lot to do with it and basically becomming 'suddenly stupid' for hours.
Maybe Im just a total hypocrite and getting high is across the board great and that I cant relate makes me just totally uncool and out of the loop. MAybe I am unreasonable? Considering my past I would never have thought Id be taking a position against herb.
I know that many can handle their drugs and alchohol, I also know that many cannot. The problem seems to be that the afflicted user does not know that they cannot. This may be the biggest argument against legalization, though this is not about that.
This might be about, tolerance and acceptance vs. watching people make bad choices, maybe about their children, the pervasive idea that 'pot is good', the drug culture in and of itself. I dont know. Of all my liberal ideals its strange that I am becoming more conservative when it comes to views on drug use, ugh. Not a pleasant position to be in for me as a live and let live idealist.
IS there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course,
so what is it?
The difference is occasional versus habitual. A stoner is addicted. A "smoker"
is someone who dabbles in pot once in a while.
Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
I don't know why, but there seems to be a sort of pride that goes with pot
addiction. As if it is cool to smoke pot everyday. It's a drug that induces
a mellow, peaceful state, or so they say....
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice?
Is this just kidding oneself?
The basic psychology of a person is greatly affected. Habitual pot smokers are
more apathetic about life, they cannot complete long-term goals, they care more
about smoking pot than anything else. That's what I've seen, anyway. (And some
of them can be very paranoid)
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or
maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse?
Fortunately, I've avoided the drug traps, but some very close loved-ones have
not been so, shall we say, lucky.
so what is it?
The difference is occasional versus habitual. A stoner is addicted. A "smoker"
is someone who dabbles in pot once in a while.
Why do smokers/stoners think thier chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
I don't know why, but there seems to be a sort of pride that goes with pot
addiction. As if it is cool to smoke pot everyday. It's a drug that induces
a mellow, peaceful state, or so they say....
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice?
Is this just kidding oneself?
The basic psychology of a person is greatly affected. Habitual pot smokers are
more apathetic about life, they cannot complete long-term goals, they care more
about smoking pot than anything else. That's what I've seen, anyway. (And some
of them can be very paranoid)
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or
maintain your stubborn adhearence to substance abuse?
Fortunately, I've avoided the drug traps, but some very close loved-ones have
not been so, shall we say, lucky.
I'm not sure how I missed this thread. Stoned, I guess.
Is there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
As just about everyone has mentioned, it's a matter of moderation and/or dependence.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
I must admit that I have tried just about every drug going at some point in my life from caffeine and cannabis to heroin and crack. Apart from some of the hallucinogens (psilocybin and mescaline, for example), cannabis is the only drug, in my experience, which does not lead to anti-social behavior. The worst, again in my experience, are crack cocaine and alcohol. I have never known of anyone becoming angry, abusive, or violent as a result of cannabis use. That, to me, is a key difference.
While I do still drink occasionally, I would be quite happy to reinstate the Eighteenth Amendment, were cannabis legalized in its stead. The country - indeed, the world - would be a better place.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Of course the basic psychology is affected - that's the point. While cannabis can have a "mellowing" effect, I also find it quite good for stimulating creativity. It was an indispensable tool when I was working as a designer in television and theatre. In my experience, cannabis tends to act not only as an anti-depressant (hence its classification as a "euphoric"), but also to enhance whatever one is doing. If one is in a productive frame of mind, it can make one even more productive. If one is unwinding, it can help one seriously relax.
As far as I can tell, the "stoner" is someone with a natural propensity toward indolence and sloth in the first place. The drug is just a symptom - and tends to amplify their lethargy.
I seldom smoke in excess - and not at all as frequently as when I've worked in more creative fields - but I remain a semi-regular user. It has never had any sort of detrimental affect on any aspect of my life.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
If we're talking about cannabis, decidedly not. Other substances have had a more deleterious effect - especially in my youth. That was generally more related to my quality of study and/or work, though. Alcohol and depressants - especially quaaludes - took their toll on me for a semester or two at college. I've tried avoid them since - though alcohol (one of the worst drugs of any description) tends to be sadly ubiquitous in our backward society. I have never had substance use interfere with a relationship - though I have seen it happen all too often. To me, no good relationship is worth sacrificing to any drug.
In general, I tend not to be that addictive a personality - at least not to substances. I was even able to use heroin casually off and on for a year or so and walk away from it. Not something I would recommend anyone else attempting.
I have had more than enough experience with alcoholics, heroin addicts, crack heads, and speed freaks. The only drug which I would recommend to anyone - without reservation - is cannabis.
Is there a difference between smoking and being a stoner? Of course, so what is it?
As just about everyone has mentioned, it's a matter of moderation and/or dependence.
Why do smokers/stoners think their chosen addiction is so different from the others? It is marginalizing as any other.
I must admit that I have tried just about every drug going at some point in my life from caffeine and cannabis to heroin and crack. Apart from some of the hallucinogens (psilocybin and mescaline, for example), cannabis is the only drug, in my experience, which does not lead to anti-social behavior. The worst, again in my experience, are crack cocaine and alcohol. I have never known of anyone becoming angry, abusive, or violent as a result of cannabis use. That, to me, is a key difference.
While I do still drink occasionally, I would be quite happy to reinstate the Eighteenth Amendment, were cannabis legalized in its stead. The country - indeed, the world - would be a better place.
Do you think the basic psychology is not effected? that others do not notice? Is this just kidding oneself?
Of course the basic psychology is affected - that's the point. While cannabis can have a "mellowing" effect, I also find it quite good for stimulating creativity. It was an indispensable tool when I was working as a designer in television and theatre. In my experience, cannabis tends to act not only as an anti-depressant (hence its classification as a "euphoric"), but also to enhance whatever one is doing. If one is in a productive frame of mind, it can make one even more productive. If one is unwinding, it can help one seriously relax.
As far as I can tell, the "stoner" is someone with a natural propensity toward indolence and sloth in the first place. The drug is just a symptom - and tends to amplify their lethargy.
I seldom smoke in excess - and not at all as frequently as when I've worked in more creative fields - but I remain a semi-regular user. It has never had any sort of detrimental affect on any aspect of my life.
Have you ever sacrificed a relationship or quality of life in order to defend or maintain your stubborn adherence to substance abuse?
If we're talking about cannabis, decidedly not. Other substances have had a more deleterious effect - especially in my youth. That was generally more related to my quality of study and/or work, though. Alcohol and depressants - especially quaaludes - took their toll on me for a semester or two at college. I've tried avoid them since - though alcohol (one of the worst drugs of any description) tends to be sadly ubiquitous in our backward society. I have never had substance use interfere with a relationship - though I have seen it happen all too often. To me, no good relationship is worth sacrificing to any drug.
In general, I tend not to be that addictive a personality - at least not to substances. I was even able to use heroin casually off and on for a year or so and walk away from it. Not something I would recommend anyone else attempting.
I have had more than enough experience with alcoholics, heroin addicts, crack heads, and speed freaks. The only drug which I would recommend to anyone - without reservation - is cannabis.
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