I think that is a little unrealistic, most people in the sex trade know that not using condoms is a death sentence. I might look around for some numbers tomorrow, but I think you'd be surprised what the acceptance percentage is.


That is also no different than the status quo for prostitution. People are not detered right now from seeking out prostitutes because of the legality. Therefore, legalizing prostitution would not change the risks associated with the behavior as far as married folks are concerned and it is not an argument against prostitution.


And before someone strikes this down as being unrealistic or says "they won't do it" I would like to point out that the adult film industry regulates itself and makes all of the participants get tested regularly. Some film studios require condoms, others do not because it makes the films "sexier".

The point here is, if the industry were legal I'm sure that a lot of establishments would spring up and they would make their own rules for their women (men).

There are men willing to pay a prostitute more if they don't have to wear condoms for sex. Considering the woman is in it to make money, there are some who are willing and do have unprotected sex. Remember, it is an unregulated industry. This is risky behavior, but a man who goes to a stranger for sex is exhibiting risky behavior from the get-go.

I remember when the AIDs epidemic was in full bloom. The public service announcements on TV said, when you have unprotected sex, you are having sex with every person your partner has had sex with, or something to that effect. I remember hearing that the health department asks the newly-diagnosed HIV positive client the names of all of the people s/he has had sex with so they can be notified of being exposed. The very nature of prostitution is to see someone on the Q.T. for sex--who actually believes that everyone who should be informed is informed?

PE: Don't you think that by legalizing prostitution that all of these health issues would be taken care of?

CP

Ok, I agree with you, there will always be some people that take risks. What I'm not sure about is how this is an argument against legalizing prostitution?

I mean prostitutes certainly do this now illegally, and it is conceivable that some would continue to do it if it were legalized. However, I think the amount of risky behavior would be cut down because what you would likely see is a lot more of the model present in Nevada (i.e. brothels where multiple women work). There is also a good chance these establishments would have rules in place for their employees for their safety and probably to avoid lawsuits.

Here is some information regarding the Nevada brothels: Health Facts, Health Benefits (warning: top banner image slighty not safe for work, no nudity just questionable if someone looked over your shoulder)





The Benefits page then goes on to list some of the benefits of using a legal licensed brothel instead of some private unlicensed service. Feel free to browse through them at your leisure, they cover most of the things opponents of prostitution have stated here.

The Nevada brothels are a very tightly controlled and regulated industry and a national model could easily be modeled off this.

Should we Legalize Prostitution?
Who is harmed by prostitution?

Back to the original questions for debate, does anyone truly think prohibiting something will really make it go away? All the arguments of it’s morally abhorrent, it’s dangerous, it’s bad for you, don’t really matter – as long as men have a sex drive, there will always be a market for sex for sale.

For those that think there should be better alternatives – LIKE WHAT?! I realize Prohibition was way before any of our times, but it certainly didn’t work.


Some of the arguments I've read here against legalization are specious.


Puh-leeze. Like WHAT? You’re male-is your hand a comparable alternative to a woman? Is a blow-up doll comparable? What alternative could you possibly come up with? Are you going to be like a Catholic priest, and try to pray your sex drive away? I would rather a man visit a prostitute than attack and rape a woman somewhere.


Like that has worked so well in the past???


To paraphrase the old song, ain’t nothin’ like the real thing, baby.

By legalizing and regulating the sex industry, we can make a real difference in those numbers. Sex isn't going away (at least I hope it isn't!!! ) but we can certainly lessen the danger by taking the very simple step of legalization.

I don’t imagine many of us think of India when we think of progressive programs, but even they have realized the wisdom of regulating the sex trade:


Legalize ≠ Promote

No I don't. These "social diseases" (the French/English "pox") have been around forever, roughly as long as prostitution has, whether it has been out of favor with a local government or not. As far as penicillin and the other prescribed treatments go, they "treat" the illnesses but don't cure them (ever have a cold sore?), so they remain carriers. In addition, while it may be illegal to work as a prostitute, it is not illegal to go to a doctor for treatment for any illness. With the advent of both free clinics and those that charge on the sliding scale, the incidence of STDs should have been cut way back.

Of course, universal health care might be held forth as a better way to address the incidence of venereal diseases than legalizing prostitution. Which one is really more abhorrent to the "sensibilities" of conservatives--the legalization of prostitution, or universal health coverage?



Yeah, here in Michigan we're supposed to have "criminal background checks" for health care workers and workers in day care, too, and felons still sneak into the system. Do we have anything that is fool, nay, criminal-proof?

If prostitution is such a dangerous thing while legal, why is it that England, France, Wales, Denmark and Canada [all of which have decriminalized prostitution], have less people in their countries living with HIV/AIDS? That doesn't make sense...Here's the link.

Also, all of those countries have less women with AIDS, here's another link.

Of these 5 countries the nation with the highest percentage of people with age is the USA, the only country without decriminalized prostitution.

Given this information, do you still think that prostitution would result in a more dangerous [STD wise] America? And if so why?

CP

I was not aware that Canada had legalized prostitution, or the other countries you mentioned. I knew that the Netherlands legalized it; 60 Minutes did a special on it a few years ago, the hookers in the picture windows displaying themselves.

The world is going to hell in more ways than war. Go figure. This apparently constitutes a failure to find other ways to effectively address the problem of enslavement and exploitation of women and settling for an alternative.

But you still didn't answer my question about universal health care? Is legalization of sexual gratification higher on the conservative's priority list than health coverage for all children, men and women? For that matter, is it higher on the liberal's priority list?

I have no idea, I'm only one conservative. I don' t think the Republicans are interested in legalizing prostitution or socializing healthcare, but I can't speak for non-GOP conservatives, other than myself.

First time I'd heard of it as well, got it from a decriminalize prostitution website, on a google search "list of countries with legal prostitution."

But don't you find it slightly encouraging that countries where prostitution is decriminalized/ignored have less HIV/AIDs victims/patients than us?

CP

I think you might want to clarify a little there CP- only the Netherlands has LEGAL prostitution- the others are either DECRIMINALIZED or IGNORED- though technically still illegal. It is kind of a wierd situation in some countries, still technically illegal but regulated, go figure

Though it is interesting to note that in 2001, the netherlands, which does have openly legal prostitution- has only 17,000 cases of HIV nationwide. And since the fastest growing section of HIV cases in any developed country is IV drug users, I suspect it is because of the 1-2 punch of legalized prostitution + goverment regulated legal IV drug use.

Nope, criminals will always find a way. However, I would think that having criminals caring for our kids is a big deal; having prostitutes which are criminals I'm not sure how that really matters. If someone were going in to have a "good time" in a brothel, I would think the last thing on their mind would be has this girl been busted for shoplifting, theft, etc?

The criminal background check wasn't really the point of my post. The point was that prostitution is legal in Nevada (a US State, not Canada, not Holland, A US State). The laws there are setup such that the industry is heavily regulated, you have to maintain a license to stay in business and one of the major portions of that license is responsible sexual behaviors (i.e. safe sex, regular medical checkups etc). Most importantly the women are protected from abuse. If you haven't read the links I supplied previously they are worth taking a look at.

Nevada proves that prostitution can be safer if it is legal and reglated, we already have a US model that could be applied nationally.

As I have said in previous posts, another almost identical industry, the adult film industry, is national and is also heavily regulated and relatively safe.

Oh, my mistake... Sorry about that, next time I'll read the big banner on the top of the page that says "prostitution DECRIMINALIZATION now coalition." Thanks CR.

Also, PE, I think you missed my question from before,


CP

Yes, I find it encouraging whenever I see less incidence of disease.

However, I believe the answer to the problem of disease lies more with health coverage than legalization of prostitution. Do you think that more liberal laws concerning health coverage might also account for the decreased incidence?

Or is the idea of legal paid-for sex so exciting that the other possibility (better health care, greater availability of medicine) is being overlooked?

I fail to see how healthcare has anything to do with AIDS, PE. There's no cure for it. No healthcare in the world can stop AIDS, prevention is the only way, which leads me to believe that the regulation of the decriminalized prostiution industry has a lot to do with why there are less HIV/AIDS cases in the countries where prostitution is decriminalized.

CP

Comparing the debate on legalization of prostitution to universal health care is a strawman fallacy, they are completely unrelated.

Legalization of prostitution costs the government little to nothing, and in fact will save them money in the long run.

Universal Health Care is a big government expenditure and really has absolutely nothing to do with the issues surrounding legalization of prostitution.

It was contextually relevant when ConservPat brought up the other nations and their reduced incidence of HIV/AIDs where prostitution was allegedly legalized.

Health care in these countries is "socialized medicine," and it might have to do with the decreased incidence of disease of any sort, for that matter.

Be that as it may, I would prefer universal health coverage for my daughter than the new and exciting, *legal* career of prostitution. It's a matter of values, and my attempt to leave the much-eschewed topic of "what God wants" out of it.

It's not easy to argue questions such as these when the concept of morality is belittled and dismissed.

I understand what you are saying, however I assure you that I for one, am not belittling and/or dismissing morality, I'm a very moral person, and I have deep religious beliefs against prostitution, however, I think that America's laws should not be determined based on my deep religious beliefs. That combined with the obvious plusses that come with the legalization of prostitution leads me to believe that it is the prudent thing to do. Taking into account the drop of HIV/AIDs in the countries withe decriminalized prostitution, legalizing it may save lives.

CP

I don't think the concept of morality is belittled or held in contempt PE- it is just not the goverments job to teach it or enforce it. I have a young daughter, and it would devestate me to know that she wasted her talents in this field, instead of becoming emperess of the universe like I am training her to be

However IT IS MY JOB to instill this as a moral no-no, not the goverments. Values are taught at a young age, and don't really take at the age someone can become a LEGAL prostitute- it does no good to arrest them or thier johns.

In fact, I would not like it if my son frequented them either- I personally find that it might not lead to his growth as a human being either. I am sure both of them will engage in casual sex at some point in thier lives, heck, there are male prostitutes for females as well (for all this man bashing on this subject ) and I don't want my daughter to be using those either I hope.

I have made some mistakes in growing up regarding sex and sexuality, but none of them, I hope, would get me arrested, since it was all between consenting adults. (you know, the old not calling afterward is probably one of the worst )

No it is NOT pick on PE day, but I have issues with several things you posted here.



No, the wife would not "catch the car crash". However, if the crash was due to his negligence, she would "catch" the financial ramifications of the lawsuit against him.



Yes it is currently an unregulated industry and everyone proposing the legalization of it are also proposing strict regulation of it. It would seem to me that since 2000+ years have failed to remove prostitution from society, we might want to consider allowing it so we can regulate it and make society safer in the process.



Wow. OK. Assuming prostitution becomes legal do you really believe we would allow sex slaves? Assuming you meant this more generally, how is choosing the degrading (in some people's eyes) job of prostitution different then choosing the degrading job of being the guy who cleans out the porta-potties at construction and fair sites? There will always be people who willing to do "degrading" work if the money is there. I for one find the only people "degraded" in the work force (in my eyes) to be those who could but choose not to work at all.



Actually CJ, based on most of the suggestions it would likely make the government money through fees and taxes etc.



The problem PE is who's morality would you like to use?

Let me try an off topic example for you. You have said in several places on AD that you like to play role-playing games, as I and others on AD have. When I was a kid in the 70s-80s we had a sudden surge of moralistic nonsense where people claimed RPGs where of the devil, poisoning our children's minds and should be illegal, banned, etc.

Those people back then honestly believed it was morally wrong to play, produce or promote roleplaying games. Obviously they were wrong, but if we allow the government to start (or in some cases continue) to dictate what is moral, when there are only consenting adults involved, what is to stop the next wave of RPG banning kooks or the like?

If your daughter does decide to enter prostitution, do you think the deterring factor will be that it is nominally illegal? Your daughter will avoid being a prostitute because of the values you give her, not because she thinks its terribly cool, but illegal so not an option.

Too much of this debate is coming down to "Should there be prostitution or not?" which is utterly illegal.

Prostitution is, and no amount of wishing or legislation will make it go away. As I posted earlier in the thread, a newcomer to the world would NEVER know that it even is illegal, given its astonishing prevalence on the streets, on the web, in newspapers and even in the yellow pages. You may be opposed to it morally or in principle, but pretending that it being illegal actually makes the slightest difference to how commonplace it is, is willfuly wearing a blindfold.

So, we have to START from the basic reality that prostitution is here to stay, and no amount of arguing against it in theory will stop that.

So, given that reality, how best to deal with the societal impact of it? We know what making it illegal has done: drugs, pimping, disease, brutality and a host of other ills. Illegality achieves nothing but allows the holier than thou among us to pretend the problem is gone and not admit why they avoid walking down certain streets in every city.

Let me put it this way, if you oppose legalisation of prostitution, fine, then propose another alternative solution. Because it being illegal sure isnt working...

Honestly, I can see both sides here. Legalization won't necessarily ameliorate the largest problems associated with prostitution. I doubt that drug use, which is illegal, would be tolerated in any 'legal' establishment, nor would the massive amounts of teen boys and girls be welcome to work in these brothels. So, there would likely still be massive drug use (often the primary reason prostitutes sell their bodies in the first place), disease on the streets (those with HIV would certainly not be permitted to work 'legally'), as well as young teen boys and girls selling their bodies surreptitiously. The change to legalize would likely only effect non-junkies of legal age, and johns....by providing the option for a person to select a (relatively) clean, safe prostitute. Not certain if that is exactly a 'solution' to most of the problems the prostitutes themselves face. Nor is the reluctance to decriminalize necessarily a holier-than-thou sentiment or reluctance to admit there is a problem.

a side-effect.

After a recent, unsuccessful night on the town with the boys, we came to appreciate the idea of legalized prostitution. Not that we'd frequent these new brothels (not us, right), but that would open up competition for our attention...lowering the price of affection, if you will. We also came to the conclusion that it's probably a secret consortium of women that are keeping prostituion ILLEGAL, so as to corner the market on 'affection'.

Also, one of my house-mates just returned from visiting his girlfriend in Melbourne, AUS, where prostitution is legal, and regulated. While he did not visit one, for obvious reasons, he spoke with some people about them. Apparently they aren't much of a problem. I heard a tale of some tourists accidentally entering one, thinking it was a neighborhood bar, which they apparently resemble.

It's here to stay, I say tax it and regulate it. Continue efforts to eliminate child exploitation, etc. I don't think that 'maverick' prostitutes would make nearly as much money as they do now, reducing the financial incentive to work as an 'illegal' prostitute.

SWM28WDC, "affection" at a brothel is a pretty expensive proposition (pun intended). You're dreaming a bit to believe legalization would 'lower the price of affection'. I live in Nevada, and the brothels here certainly have posed no problem for the community...of course, they're zoned, solicitation is restricted, and all that. No one would want to make a hobby of frequenting these brothels unless they had a very large amount of discretionary money.

Not having it written into the law is not the same as belittling or dismissing morality, though I do question how it is immoral.
What harm is done by prostitution? If a married man uses the services of a prostitute, he is commiting adultery but how is that the prostitute's fault? A person can use a car to make a getaway from a bank robbery, but that doesn't make cars "immoral".
The thing is, morality is a personal decision. Given that no harm is done, the government has no business telling people what is and isn't moral. That is a parents job, or a pastor or rabbi... Right now your moral views may be the majority view, but you cannot guarantee that it will always be so. By keeping the government out of such decisions you protect yourself.

Finally i have found a site that helps my argument against the onslaught of pro-prostitution advocates!(lol just kidding)

Ten Reasons for Not Legalizing Prostitution

READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE PLEASE!

Lets get some gist shall we?









Hook...line...and sinker! Everything i have been saying up to this point. Do yourself a favor and read the entire article.

Tell me about it--my first husband attended Bob Jones University, and after I was divorced from him, one of our concerned friends heard me talking in the Student Lounge at Greenville Tech about playing D&D. Hilary (and I don't mean Clinton!) brought up that very concern to me. I repeated to her the Calvinist Christian doctrine of "once saved, always saved;" therefore I could not lose my soul even if it were the "devil's game." It quelled her concerns, at least on that day.

To give the fundamentalists a little credit about role-playing games such as D&D, if a person's hold on reality is tenuous, s/he may start viewing the RPG in question as "reality" and experience a break with what the general consensus of humanity calls reality. There were instances in the past where students got lost in sewers in college towns playing their games, real-time, and I believe one even died. I could see how people who get "secret messages" from ordinary things could be deluded into thinking that they were connecting with the devil.

An oft-repeated verse from the Book that fundamentalists revere most is, "By their fruits you shall know them." The fact remains that I am not lost to the devil, I don't kill anything bigger than a spider, and I try my best to be kind to others. There are no bad "fruits" from my playing Dungeons & Dragons.

In contrast, we need to examine what "fruits" prostitution provides for society. Along with providing temporary sexual gratification, it facilitates betrayal of relationships based on trust and fosters a sense that irresponsible hedonism is perfectly all right, as long as there is money to be made.

Decriminalizing prostitution will cut the government in for a "piece of the action," but some bureaucrat(s) will determine, still, what is "for the good of the people" involved in the industry. So you are going to get someone writing law for someone's "own good" regardless.

All I can say is, if prostitution is legalized, the prostitutes had better organize into trade unions if they want a say about their wages, cost of living adjustments, and any tangible benefits, because corporations and bosses have been known to exploit employees in many other industries, and the government can't or won't always come to the aid of the rank and file. Pimps come in many sizes, shapes and job titles.

As a bumper sticker I saw yesterday put it:

ORGANIZED LABOR: The folks who brought you THE WEEKEND

I don't believe that your assumption is necessarily true, that "this is a rather lucrative trade so companies would likely form."

I don't know how often I have sat through day long conferences on sexual harassment laws, and how every major industry has to be aware of them, and keep their employees aware of their limitations. Essentially, the bottom line to these educational seminars is, if you were to ask a co-worker on a date, and she/he felt the attention was unwelcome, you could lose your job. If the company fails to protect its employees from sexual harassment, it can be sued. What corporate lawyer would allow a client to hire prostitutes, even if it were legalized, knowing that the client could be sued for allowing anyone to solicit sex from one of its employees?

Have you noticed the signs on most businesses that state they require you to pass a drug test before you're hired? I have heard more than one prostitute respond in interviews that they stay in the trade to support drug habits. Once again, most corporate lawyers would require their clients to follow industry standards and require employees to be drug free.

I don't think that Wal-Mart is likely to add a line of prostitute services, and I find it equally unlikely that your local mall would want to attract such businesses in their mix. Most hotels and motels, at least nominally, try to "protect their customers" from exposure to working girls in the bar or lobby.

The most likely source of money for such a business then, would be organized crime trying to launder illegal profits. They are, after all, the ones who are already familiar with the working girls with experience, the clients, etc. Organized crime might very well "discourage" any newcomers from competing. The net result, "business as usual" would likely continue, with charges of police harassment if they did try to check IDs, health records, etc.

The women are not the victims, they signed up for it, therefore they are the employees, no one is forcing them into anything.

And they should be arrested and/or fined.

I'm sorry that I don't sound sympathetic, but again, they signed up for prostitution, and they knew what they were getting into.

Emphasis mine. The US doesn't have legalized prostitution, you can't compare us now to us after legal prostitution, there is nothing to compare.

In a perfect world, sure, just crackdown on prostitution. I'm sure someone's had that idea before, and prostitution is still here. It will always be here, might as well make money off of it, and as I said before, it will probably result in a decrease in HIV/AIDS.

And this just isn't true, I've given facts to the contrary.

What I noticed about this article is that it focuses mainly on how disgusting and bad it is to be around prostitutes, it depicts the "street whores" as gross and nasty [no arguement here], but it isn't as if walking into an adult video store is opening the gates of heaven. It's not like an adult shop [I'll leave it at that, don't want a strike] isn't equally disgusting to look at. Just because something gross, and some don't approve of it doesn't justify it's illeagality.

Also, I noticed that the author focused on the "harmful affect" on women. Thereby trying to victimize these women, who became prostitutes not by force, but by choice. She [the author] wants it to seem like the horrible sex industry is taking advantage of these women, which is, of course untrue. If you're doing something by choice you aren't being taken advantage of without you knowing about it, and if you know about it, quit [again by choice].

CP

But there is, in Nevada. Ever hear of the Mustang Ranch?

Yes, but are we willing to compare a country to a State?

CP

From my article:



I really should highlight the whole paragraph because it directly contradicts your "choice" argument.



I just cannot see being for prostitution after all of this evidence has been presented. You all want it to be regulated and safe, but examples from countries like the Netherlands and Australia PROVE that it cannot be regulated.

It's very frustrating to debate with a person who responds with a series of soundbites to an article they obviously haven't read. CATW is an organization for victims of international trafficking and local prostitution. They didn't sign up to be prostitutes, nor are they usually "willing" sex workers, or even legal age. They were subjected to violence as a regular part of the business. This is okay, and legitimate 'employment', in your opinion? The worldwide average age of a prostitute is 14.

And again, A: Is this any different from strippers/exotic dancers or porn "actors"/"actresses"? and B: The fact remains that it is the girl's choice and I'm sure that prostitution isn't the only job opportunity that a women could possible get, I'm sure of it.

There hasn't been much evidence presented against it. Your article doesn't include may statistics or facts in it, it seems to be mostly opinion, whereas my other posts are full of information stating that HIV/AIDs is less of a problem in countries with decriminalized prostitution than America. I haven't really gotten much of a response from anti-legalization folks to my post with HIV/AIDs fact on page four, I think everyone should take a look at that.

Again, I have statistics that prove the contrary, less AIDs deaths, less people living with HIV/AIDs. It's much safer when prostitution is decriminalized/legalized and regulated.

What is your take on this paragraph?

Mrs. P: I actually did read the entire article. At the very top of the article it says this If the prostitution described in the article was forced, it wouldn't be state-sponsored.

CP

But that's the entire point, CP. The data shows what happens in other countries where prostitution is an accepted way of life. Do you think that if we legalized it here in the entire United States that the conditions would automatically be better?

Where there is prostitution, there is documentation of continued exploitation and abuse. These women, whether they are in the sex trade or not, do not "ask for" violence to be committed against them.

Is this not a fact ConservPat?



It is NOT the girl's choice...it is their last option!



There is some more evidence. We can go at this all day but the fact remains that the studies shown have contradicted anyone's belief of a safe prostitution industry.



My response to that paragraph is that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and can express it if they have facts to back it up.

I have no idea.
But is this abuse and violence completely unique to legal prostitution? No, it happens independently of the legality of the prostitution, so do you think that the violence would be curbed, or would it continue when the government regulates the prostitution industry?

I'll repeat my quote...Emphasis mine. I never said that there weren't any facts.

Are those women talking about their lives in illegal prostitution, or decriminalized prostitution?

CP

some more "facts" for you.

NOTE: These studies were done in countries where prostitution is legaL!. The Netherlands, Victoria. Australia, Switzerland, exc...

CP

I imagine that if legalized, prostitution would still remain one of society's taboos. The point of legalizing it is not to make it accepted, but to provide some level of saftey and reasonable protection for those involved, save on wasted government resources and get new revenue from a black market occupation.

Going to a sex club to explore S&M or any number of other things is completely legal, you also probably wouldn't want to broadcast that fact to your employer.

Businesses frequently wine and dine clients by taking them to strip clubs (I know because I have been on both sides of that), which is the closest comparable legal thing we have right now, and even that is not broadcast to everyone. Strip clubs bill your credit card discretely and as long as people are quiet about it, no one ever knows. You don't walk into the office the next morning and say "hey everybody, guess what?"

Finally, why would someone get sued for participating in a legal enterprise? If prostitution were legalized, surely that would have impacts on other laws too. Now if said employee walks around work making a big deal about it in front of female employees then you might have a point.


That is an incorrect assumption. Several women in the adult film industry are there by choice, not because they couldn't do anything else. Some of them enjoy it, some of them don't have other skills and it is a good way to make money, some of them like being a C level celebrity. I could provide some links to prove this but they'd all be unsafe for work and inappropriate for AD so you'll just have to take my word for it.

Then you would need to explain the Nevada brothels. We are talking about legalized prostitution in a US state, it doesn't get anymore relevant than that. I posted a link a few pages back that described how they operate, it would be worth checking out. I can repost it if necessary.

CP, The majority of those women were OBVIOUSLY trafficked in. From the article:



Worse, the incidence of child prostitution increased:

Mrs.P, I understand what you are saying, they were illegaly trafficked into a country where prostitution was legal. But, couldn't this happen just as easily in the United States where prostitution is illegal? And couldn't you see this happening in the adult film industry as well?

CP

Very unfair comparison. The adult film industry is different from prostitution. There really is no room for comparison.




I think maybe you should see the article i posted as well. Prostitution should remain illegal because countless studies have shown that it does NOT help women, regulation increases criminal activity and other reasons which have already been discussed.



Of course it could be just as easy to do it in the US, but you want to legalize it. And the comparison to the Adult Film industry makes no sense. If the person on film is under-age, prosecutors would have evidence that the industry was doing something wrong. They wouldn't use children.

I find it wrong to try to justify prostitution by pointing towards the adult film industry. It is like justifying legal marijuana because smoking and alcohol is legal.

How, how are they different?

Lederuvdapac, again, I'll ask, are these women in your article talking about there lives in illegal prostitution or legal prostitution?

CP

The article talks about people in countries where prostitution is LEGAL.

Would you care to provide any of these studies?

There are certainly very strong points of comparison between the Adult Film industry and Prostitution. Why else have social activists gone so far as to equte the two?

In both industries people get paid for having sex; and expose themselves to all the risks attached. They are sexualized and according to one definition of the word dehumanized. So would you care to actually explain how there is...



I think I just provided a lot of room. Are the two the same? No; but many of the same factors are present.

Yes, but is this trafficking that you are referring to legal?

CP

[quote=ConservPat,Jul 8 2004, 12:20 PM] The article talks about people in countries where prostitution is LEGAL. [/QUOTE]
Yes, but is this trafficking that you are referring to legal?

CP [/quote]
The trafficking is illegal, but the prostitution IS legal.

There is less of an incentive to traffick sex workers into a country which hasn't legallized prostitution. Where would they go? They couldn't exactly set up a shop on the corner with a neon sign. I think localities should make up their own minds about prostitution, and a woman should never, ever be arrested for "exploiting herself", but I do see compelling reasons to not legitimize the pimps as businesspeople. I think the article makes some very compelling points. Many of our assumptions on this thread about legalization (less child prostitution, less exploitation) have been seriously refuted.

Sorry for my confusion before, I was having trouble understanding that. Okay, so what you are doing is comparing the illegal experience of women forced to be prostitutes to the legal experience of women choosing to be prostitutes. Now do you understand what I'm saying? You can't compare this ilegal trafficking and prostitution to the legal choice of prostitution. While as you said, the prostitution is legal, but the trafficking and forcing of women to become prostitutes is not, so to compare that to my example of legal unforced prostitution is fallacious.

Agreed , I completely agree, I just guess that the gov't would do a decent job of cleaning it up, as they did in Nevada.

CP

Sorry bout the quotes, there's a glitch in the Matrix.

(edited to fix quotes )
Thanks Mrs. P

I don't think that it is, not considering the context in which you made that response:


CP was making the comparison and that was your response.

My response still applies even for prostitution. Your average street walker is probably doing it out of desparation, but a lot of high priced call girls probably choose to do this for the money.


It makes absolute sense, because the adult film industry is only a shade different than prostitution. If prostitution were to be legalized and regulated then the same thing would apply, people could be prosecuted for being in that industry under age.


That study is not relevant because it poses questions to an illegal industry. Show me a study that poses questions to Nevada brothels only and I might be convinced.

The links I provided earlier for your reference:

Some of the points in that study are moot because in Nevada it is a heavily regulated business, women work in brothels and have to follow rules or get fired. I would highly suggest checking those links out.