OK, so i dont like him.

L. Zeved

I've always thought he was a good speaker: articulate, charasmatic and friendly. I think he's the kind of person who could tell you he would do something good, turn around and do something bad, then convince you what he did was actually good.

It was his person, not his policies, that got him (re)elected

--cheers

OK, so i dont like him.

But you don't mind a president that hires criminals. I can mention several but I'm sure you know who they are.

You don't mind a president who is bringing the world closer to nuclear ahnilation than any before him? One that seems to delight in making enemies and p*ssing people off?

You don't mind a president who is working to gather all kinds of information on you and keep it all in a convenient little database all without a warrant or suepena? Here's a hint: one of his criminal buddies is going to run it for him.

You don't mind having a president that has done nothing about the incredible joblessness, healthcare crisis, or economy?

You don't mind a president that has rewritten our rights to due process? No more public speedy trials for us. just lock people up and throw away the key if you think they're a suspect. No more need for evidence.

Ughh.

So now we get to witness how Musolini got power: kept the trains running. What did Nixon say? If you have them by the short hairs, you win their hearts and minds?

Fear leads to dictatorships. Fact of life.

Anyway, Clinton became Prez twice because the Repubs blew it. Plain and simple. They almost blew it this last time (prez election) too. Pure luck took 'em through. Now they have all the power.

And all the blame. The bell tolls for thee.

I have a good Clinton story!

I was not a big Clinton fan, he was too conservative for me. That said, I was working for a democratic state-level candidate in Virginia some years ago, and I had the opportunity to attend a fundraising dinner at which Clinton was speaking. I had never been a big fan, as I said, but I can tell you, when he came into the room, he was a total and complete alpha male. This guy was so charismatic, he was the uber-politician. He's one of those rare guys who could probably convince you to eat your shoe, and have you believing it tasted good to boot! He had a "vibe" that was hard to explain; I've met a number of politicians, and most of them try and do this, you know, make you feel like you are important while they shake your hand - mostly they fail, and seem pretty smarmy. But not Bill. Not at all. So love him or hate him, trust me, if you met him, you would love him - at least as long as he was in the room!!

It seems to me that you are talking about Bill CLinton here. Because he sure as heck is the main reason America was vulnerable to terrorism. He was completely snowballed along with JImmy Carter about North Korea's nuke program. He pardoned cocaine dealers and international criminals(Mark Rich). He inherited a booming economy from Bush I, and as he left office it was already declining(Remember the dot-bombs, Clinton was president then). He gave secrets to the Chinese, sold the Lincoln Bedroom to the highest bidders, and managed to violate how many of the 10 commandments. Without a doubt one of the worst 5 presidents ever. Without a doubt. And his laughable legacy(no one wants to be associated with him, democrats included) is punctuated by the fact that his presidential library can't get any donations. Heck all you have to do is buy Penthouse magazine to get an overview of the Clinton years.

For everyone wondering, only 1 and 4 were correct. Bob was a horrible speaker, like Al Gore. Bill was an excellent speaker, like Hitler. And Hitler had a whole army with him and fought to the death!

L. Zeved

LZ - it's an opinion poll. NONE are correct. NONE are incorrect.

Just my opinion, but even though I wasn't enamored with Clinton and SOME of his politics, I would never equate him and Hitler in the same sentence.

I don't see how Bob Dole's speaking skills had much to do with Clinton becoming president. Clinton beat George Bush to become President.

I can believe this. Clinton was the first politician I have ever actually liked before or since. I probably would have liked Bobby and John Kennedy but they were before my time.

BTW, speaking of how Clinton handled N.Korea, I can't wait to see how Bush handles it. On the one hand Bush is trying to say this is no crisis and can be handled diplomatically. On the other hand he refuses to negotiate with them. On the 'left' foot he will never do anything that might resemble something Clinton did. It would be anethema to him. On the 'right' foot he's insisting that they don't pose a danger.

So, if this can be handled diplomatically and he doesn't negotiate like Clinton did (and how can he now that N.Korea is a proven liar?) I can't wait to see how he plans on working this out. He looks to be in a bind to me.

I actually did not like Bill Clinton..ever. The man looked like a liar, sounded like a liar...and guese what he was a liar. The man got into office with 43.5% of the popular vote...and people harp on Bush for his populist vote...which Al Gore won but only by a hair. Other than a lying womanizing hick he seemed like the kind of guy that would be great to tallk to at a party.

Back to lurking,
Darcaine

You just described Bush as far as I'm concerned. (I don't think Bush is a womanizer, he is a chauvanist instead. I think that's worse.)

And I think Clinton won with a much higher percentage of the popular vote than you gave him credit for but I'll have to check on that when I get home.

Can you quantify why you think Bush is a liar? Clinton was pretty easy.

Back to lurking,
Darcaine

I like Clinton. He was a complete liar and scumbag but at least he let you know it. With Dubya or Dole or Bush you had to look real hard. What about Bill Clinton was one of the smartest presidents ever? What about his platform was sounds and created a great country. If you had a spontaneous debate on philosphy and government between Bush and Clinton, what would Bush say?

Bush would say, "God blesserize 'merica against the evil doer's."

What Perot gets no credit for getting Clinton elected?

I think many of the Perot voters wouldn't vote if he wasn't there but give Perot some credit.

OK Darcaine,

here's some stuff from various sources:

"George Bush now admits that he was convicted of drunk driving. On September 4, 1976, a state trooper saw Bush's car swerve onto the shoulder, then back onto the road. [The Bush camp spin that he was driving too slowly is simply a lie.] Bush failed a road sobriety test and blew a .10 blood alcohol, plead guilty, and was fined and had his driver's license suspended. His spokesman says that he had drunk "several beers" at a local bar before the arrest. Bush was 30 at the time. He now says that he stopped drinking when he turned 40 because it was a problem.

More troubling, Bush lied in denying such an arrest, and still won't take responsibility for his actions. His first reaction was to blame Democrats and Fox News -- the only openly conservative TV network -- for reporting the story. "Why [was this reported] now, four days before the election? I've got my suspicions." He refused to say what his suspicions are, though. Bush admits covering up the story, but seems to think he has no responsibility for the failure of his cover up.

In fact, just like Clinton with Monica Lewinsky, Bush has brazenly and repeatedly lied to cover up and minimize this arrest. "

"1. Bush Lied at his Press Conference, 11/3/2000
Bush said he paid a fine on the spot and never went to court. That is clearly a lie, as you can see on this court document showing his court hearing a month later. In fact, it was a man also in court for DUI the same day who revealed Bush' arrest. Here is exactly what Bush said in his press conference:
Bush: "I told the guy I had been drinking and what do I need to do? And he said, "Here's the fine." I paid the fine and did my duty...."
Reporter: "Governor, was there any legal proceeding of any kind? Or did you just -- "
Bush: "No. I pled -- you know, I said I was wrong and I ..." Reporter: "In court? "
Bush: No, there was no court. I went to the police station. I said, "I'm wrong."

2. Bush Lied in Court, 1978
Bush got a court hearing to get his driving suspension lifted early, even though he had not completed a required driver rehabilitation course. He told the hearings officer that he drank only once a month, and just had "an occasional beer." The officer granted his request. But Bush continued drinking for 8 years after that date and has said publicly that he drank too much and had a drinking problem during that time. Presumably Bush was under oath during the hearing, though we haven't been able to pin down that detail. The Bush campaign refuses to comment on this contradiction.

3. Bush Lied To "The Dallas Morning News", 1998
"Just after the governor's reelection in 1998, [Dallas Morning News reporter Wayne] Slater pressed Bush about whether he had ever been arrested. 'He said, 'After 1968? No.'" Dallas Morning News, 11/03/2000 [Before 1968, Bush was arrested for theft and vandalism in college.]

4. Bush Lied On 'Meet The Press', 11/21/99
Tim Russert: "If someone came to you and said, 'Governor, I'm sorry, I'm going to go public with some information.' What do you do?"
Bush: "If someone was willing to go public with information that was damaging, you'd have heard about it by now. You've had heard about it now. My background has been scrutinized by all kinds of reporters. Tim, we can talk about this all morning."

5. Bush Lied to CBS, 1999.
"Bush has often acknowledged past mistakes, but CBS News Correspondent Lee Cowan reports that in a 1999 interview with CBS station WBZ in Boston, he denied there was any so-called smoking gun." CBS TV news

Bush also evaded countless questions and gave Clintonesque half-truths. For example, while struggling with how to answer charges of drug abuse, he said that he would have been able to pass FBI background checks during his father's administration. But those checks include the question "Have you ever been arrested for any crime?" So either he was directly lying, or he has some Slick explanation like "I could have explained the circumstances of the arrest and still passed the FBI check."

In another evasion, Bush decided to serve jury duty in 1996, during his first year as governor. On his questionairre, he simply left blank the questions about prior arrests and trials. Then he found himself on a trial for drunk driving, where every juror is eventually asked about prior convictions for drunk driving. The night before the trial, Bush's lawyer asked the defense attorney to dismiss him, because "it would be improper for a governor to sit on a criminal case in which he could later be asked to grant clemency." It's a silly argument, because that problem exists with any criminal trial and Bush had already decided to serve on a jury, but the defense attorney obliged and excused him before direct questioning of jurors began.

Bush now justifies covering up his arrest "to be a good role model for his daughters." How does he figure that? Lying to cover up your crimes is not what I call being a good role model. Taking responsibility for your actions, admitting fault honestly and warning people of the consequences you suffered, THAT would be a good example. But Bush prefers the Clinton route of bald-faced lying, then blaming your enemies and the press when you get caught.

Bush is now the first person to be elected president after being convicted of a crime.

Bush had several other drunken incidents, as well. In December, 1972, Bush challenged his dad (the ex-president) to a fist fight, during an argument about Bush's drunk driving. He had taken his little brother out drinking, and ran over a neighbor's garbage cans on the way home. Bush's atypical public service job, working with inner city Houston kids, appears to have been an unofficial community service stint set up by Bush, Sr. Apparently the governor didn't learn his lesson, because his drunk driving conviction occured almost four years later.

In another incident, he started screaming obscenities at a Wall Street Journal reporter, just because that reporter predicted that Bush's father would not be the 1988 Republican nominee. The reporter obviously was wrong, but a drunken Bush Jr. walked up to him at a restaurant and started yelling "You ######ing son of a bitch. I won't forget what you said and you're going to pay a price for it."

In fact, Bush' running mate Dick Cheney now admits he had two drunk driving offenses in 1962 and 1963, giving the Bush -- Cheney ticket a new world record of 3 DUI's on one ticket. No wonder they seem so relaxed.

The conviction is bad enough, but the real question is, what other revelations are going to come later, about his drug use (which he won't deny), failing to show up for a year of his National Guard service, or sexual escapades in his swinging single days?

There is evidence that Bush has more to hide involving his Texas driving record. Soon after he became governor, he had a new driver's license issued with the unusual ID number of "000000005", an action that destroyed the records of his previous license. His staff could only say, weakly, that this was done for "security reasons" but there is no record of any previous Texas governor having done so. Now we have at least of hint of why Bush wanted his records obscured, and a dark foreboding that more might be lurking, still covered up."

Bush would win this hands down. Clinton would need to take a poll first to find out what he should be saying.

Back to lurking,
Darcaine

Ok, so he used to drink alot and is not proud of it. There is a BIG difference between My Cocaine (Clinton) and Bush. Clinton is so dirty I feel soiled just watching him. Digging up denying 30 your old DUI's is well...IMHO kinda lame. So, he has some history with drinking.

"4. Bush Lied On 'Meet The Press', 11/21/99
Tim Russert: "If someone came to you and said, 'Governor, I'm sorry, I'm going to go public with some information.' What do you do?"
Bush: "If someone was willing to go public with information that was damaging, you'd have heard about it by now. You've had heard about it now. My background has been scrutinized by all kinds of reporters. Tim, we can talk about this all morning." "

All I can say is huh? or did you cut and paste this without reading off some hate Bush site?

"5. Bush Lied to CBS, 1999.
"Bush has often acknowledged past mistakes, but CBS News Correspondent Lee Cowan reports that in a 1999 interview with CBS station WBZ in Boston, he denied there was any so-called smoking gun." CBS TV news"

30-40 year old DUI is a smoking gun? Once again did you read this before going to an anti-Bush site?

All I can say is a 30-40 year DUI is hardley anything like the ol'slickster. I don't excuse his behavior but, geez man a 30-40 year old DUI? I mean c'mon. After the last administration Bush looks like a saint.

Back to lurking,
Darcaine

Which brings up another lie. First he said he didn't follow the polls and later it came out that he followed them quite closely. Thanks for reminding me, Darcaine.

I can - if Danya doesn't mind - though I'd best do it in a new thread.

Thank you Wetz. I appreciate the help. Not that I couldn't think of anything, just that I am tired of repeating all of Bush's shortcomings and lies.

They are both sleezy politicans. But Dubya isn't a sleezy politican who is a Rhode schollar and arguably the smartest president ever. I have never heard Bush talk about philosphy and government.