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Cadman
While watching Bill Maher's show tonite one of the topics he brought up was that there are over 10 million kids on Prozac. Which his guests as well as me find very disturbing. Its sad that their are that many kids on Prozac. Do all these kids really need to be on this drug or other drugs like Ritalin? I mean common if all these kids need these drugs I would like to know what happened from the 70's & 80's to today, there has to be something that is making these kids depressed, ADD, or the other reasons why they are being medicated. We are becoming way to dependent on make you feel good drugs of all types.

Yes there are times when medication is necessary but 10 million kids on Prozac that should be showing us there is something either wrong with how we are treating them as well as adults or we have become a society that is all to eager to use medications as the cure all when the children are not acting right.

Helping Depressed Kids

QUOTE
Thirty million Americans (including 10 million kids) take the drugs.


We need a war vs. legal drugs

QUOTE
National sales figures indicate that from 1998 to 2002, sales of anti-depressants increased 73% to more than $12 billion, while analeptics, drugs like Ritalin and Adderall that stimulate the central nervous system, increased 167%, according to IMS Health, a pharmaceutical information and consulting company. Even more distressing, physicians wrote more than 1 million prescriptions for Strattera, a nonstimulant treatment for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, in its first six months on the market.

snipet

"Any time a child reads a little more slowly, we're talking learning disability and administering Ritalin, or any time a kid acts up a bit, instead of giving him detention, we're drugging him," says Dr. Arthur Caplan, chairman of the medical ethics department at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. He adds, "These are definitely problems, in that it's expensive, it may not address the cause of the problem and I've never met a drug yet, including aspirin, that didn't have some side effects."

In other words, some pharmaceuticals create greater problems than they treat. In June, British drug officials, later endorsed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, warned physicians and consumers that GlaxoSmithKline's anti-depressant Paxil carries a substantial risk of prompting teenagers and children to consider suicide. Two months later, Wyeth warned doctors of the same risks in its Effexor. U.S. sales of both drugs totaled nearly $4 billion last year.

The driving force behind the surge is aggressive direct-to-consumer advertising, Caplan says. Following the relaxation of a 30-year drug marketing agreement in 1997, pharmaceutical companies have tripled their annual advertising to consumers, resulting in a 37% increase in sales of prescription stimulants for children. Also, roughly one-third of all adults have asked their doctor about a drug they saw advertised, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

snipet

In fact, American consumers, mostly children, account for more than 90% of global consumption of such stimulants.


The last article sums it up perfectly there are 2 main reasons. 1. over using medications as a cure all especially with kids when the children are not acting right. 2. advertising making consumers overly anxious to try a drug they saw on TV or saw in the paper.

Questions: Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?


Most people would like to be a informed consumer especially when dealing with their health, but I think it has gotten out of hand when there are that many children taking prozac and our society as a whole seems to be to prone to over using medications. I do have to say when dealing with a particular chronic illness that I have it has helped me to understand what the doctor was talking about by getting information thru the internet and other sources out there.
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Paladin Elspeth
QUOTE
Is our society becoming too dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

Yes, especially when it becomes necessary to prescribe new medicines to counteract the effects of the prescribed medicines people are taking.

There are medical disorders in which medications must be taken, such as for diabetes or a heart condition, and other problems which can be treated in ways that don't involve pills.

QUOTE
Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?

Yes. It is making it much more difficult for physicians to care for patients when their time is taken up explaining why a patient should not take the newest thing advertised on television or in magazines. In addition, physicians find that some patients will go to other physicians if they don't get the prescriptions they want. In the case of those patients who are on multiple medications for multiple problems, it can result in a patient becoming toxic and even dying.

In the case of Prozac, it is a serotonin reuptake inhibiting antidepressant. Studies have shown that some patients experience depressive, even suicidal crises more frequently while on this type of medication. In some cases these patients are children. Psychotherapy should be attempted before placing children on a powerful psychotropic drug.
doomed_planet
QUOTE
Thirty million Americans (including 10 million kids) take the drugs.


That is an awful and scary statistic, but what is worse is the plan, that will be set in
motion, to make it mandatory for every public school kid to be "tested" for
such psychiatric "ills" as ADHD, depression, social anxiety disorder, and behavior problems...

What is more alarming, is the way George Bush has personally appointed
four executives from ELi Lilly and Company (the ones who mass produce
Prozac and other harfmul drugs) to positions on committees that effect public
policy
. These appointments include the President and CEO of Eli Lilly himself.


Children haven't changed, the greed of man has changed to include the
exploitation of children for PROFIT - in the year 2000 the company who makes
Prozac PROFITED 3 Billion dollars.

Their latest exploits involve the re-naming of PMS (to PMDD - premenstrual
dysphoric disorder). They hope to tap into the market of women who suffer
from such premenstrual symptoms as sadness, irritability, depression, etc.
That's pretty much every woman
. They have assigned a deep malady to what
is a natural occurrence in women who menstruate. Why would they do this?
A profit-ploy!

The makers of Prozac are more evil than drug-dealers on the streets because
they are hiding behind the cloak of mental-health. What a lie!!!
DaffyGrl
Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

It's bad enough to overmedicate adults, but when kids are taking heavy-duty drugs like Prozac, it's time for someone to take a good, hard look at why. I'm of the opinion that behavior that, when I was young, was just being a kid, is being labeled as ADD, ADHD, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Stick an acronym on it, and people believe it's a disease. I think it has more to do with parents' inability or unwillingness to discipline a rambunctious kid and looking for a quick fix than any real "epidemic" of these types of "disorders." Anti-depressants can work well on adults, but tend to react the opposite way in children and wind up causing the same problems the drug is supposed to alleviate; depression, suicide, etc. For instance, Ritalin acts as a stimulant in adults (to the point it has been compared to cocaine), but has the opposite effect on children.

As for becoming too dependent, see response to next question.

Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?

In my opinion, the pharmaceutical companies are to blame for the horrible problems that have resulted from use of their products. Sure, the doctors prescribe them, but the pharm. companies are right there with handsful of free samples, and high pressure sales pitches convincing docs that these are wonder drugs! They're a cure-all for everything! Prescribe them to all your patients for whatever ails them! While behind the scenes, these companies hide the study results that show that maybe the risks of taking this pill outweigh any possible benefits.

I think it's a crime that they are even allowed to advertise on TV, a medium that reaches just about everyone...especially when every other commercial is about the latest drug to treat everything from heartburn to ED (do we really need to hear about 4 hour erections every 10 minutes?). I always crack up when I hear the fast-talking voiceover zipping through all the side effects at the end of the commercial: nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or constipation (Xanax), headache, indigestion, back pain, muscle aches, flushing, stuffy or runny nose (Cialis), diarrhea, nausea, or abdominal pain, dizziness, headache (Prevacid). Oh, boy, gotta get me some of that! Yeah, right.

Tobacco products and hard liquor have been banned for years from advertising on TV; I think it's about time to do the same to drug companies. I find it puzzling anyway why a product is being advertised on TV that cannot even be purchased by the consumer. Sure, "ask your doctor"...the guy being strong-armed by the pharmaceutical companies to hawk their own competing product - sheesh. dry.gif

Here's a website with some chilling information on psychotropic drugs.
Mrs. Pigpen
Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes? I pretty much agree with the other posters so far. It's a forgone conclusion that society is too dependent on drugs when one out of every five school boys is taking Ritalin. Even so, I'm surprised that the number of children on Prozac is so high. huh.gif How on earth do you effectively measure and diagnose clinical depression on a child? How are these children going to develop emotionally while under the continuous influence of these drugs, and what effect do these types of drugs have on their developing brains?

Yes, people are too quick to pop a pill for a cure, and they’re especially too quick to peddle it to their children…with the full consent and (often) encouragement from the medical community. Kid gets drugged and sedated or “happy”, parent gets to deal less with the child’s problems, doctor gets money, pharmaceutical company gets money...Hey! Everybody wins! Why address the problems the old fashioned way while simultaneously developing strength of character and emotional maturity?

Personal anecdote: Every time I move, I must immediately register with the tricare provider at my new base location. Every time I register, I am required to fill out a survey of questions about my medical history and current symptoms. One time I was stupid enough to answer "yes" to the question "have you experienced some stress lately?" Well...I'd just moved to a different country alone with a toddler and baby. Hell yes, I'd encountered stress! Wrong answer. I was contacted and told I needed to speak to someone about my problem. Then, I was inundated for months with mail indicating that I needed to make an appointment. I'd estimate that about one out of every six or seven military wives I know is taking prozac. It's truly an epidemic.
nebraska29
PBS's frontline show has an excellent website on this issue that they wrote on. A very good source for folks who are interested in this topic.

QUOTE
Questions: Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?


It most definitely is, educational psychology programs are nothing more than test prepping and interpreting courses these days. ermm.gif shifty.gif It wouldn't hurt to have ed/psych specialists who specialize in a different area of helping students from the varied aspects of psychology-psychoanalysis, humanistic psychology, as well as cognitive/behavioral therapy. The craze for pills is also popular becaue many people are lazy and it's better to just sedate junior than to actually deal with his/her aggressive behavior. Many parents have just given up, given the kids their drugs, and berate anyone who points it out.



QUOTE
Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?


They most definitely should. Especially given the fact that they are trying to buy their ways into writing laws on their own behalf. Consider...

QUOTE
Overall, drug companies spent $78.1 million on lobbying in 2001, bringing the total lobbying bill for 1997-2001 to $403,071,467. (See Table 2) The companies employed 623 different individual lobbyists in 2001 – or more than one lobbyist for every member of Congress.

-source

If they can afford to blow $78.1 million, they definitely can afford to lower costs on the rest of us. mrsparkle.gif Especially since research is SOOOOOO expensive and all.
SuzySteamboat
QUOTE
That is an awful and scary statistic, but what is worse is the plan, that will be set in
motion, to make it mandatory for every public school kid to be "tested" for
such psychiatric "ills" as ADHD, depression, social anxiety disorder, and behavior problems...


What's the the quotes around ills, doomed planet? As someone who has suffered my entire life from severe clinical depression, I can assure you that it is a verifiable illness.

QUOTE
Their latest exploits involve the re-naming of PMS (to PMDD - premenstrual
dysphoric disorder).  They hope to tap into the market of women who suffer
from such premenstrual symptoms as sadness, irritability, depression, etc.
That's pretty much every woman
. They have assigned a deep malady to what
is a natural occurrence in women who menstruate. Why would they do this?


I suffer from a severe form of PMS, doomed planet. This is not just cramps and irritibility. Every month, around the time of my menstrual cycle, I become suicidal and extremely emotionally sensitive - I often start crying uncontrollably for hours over the littlest thing, or even over [B]nothing.
I know for a fact that depression and severe PMS are not conditions made up by pharmaceudical companies to make money. In conjunction with Lexapro, which I take for my depression, I take an antipsychotic called Seroquel. You are right about drugs being prescribed to counteract side effects from other drugs. I was taking the antipsychotic Risperdal, but the side effects were so bad - I couldn't even drive myself to my hair appointments because I was afraid I'd fall asleep at the wheel - that my doctor prescribed Seroquel, which is supposed to have even more severe side effects than Risperdal, but I'm taking a low enough dosage that the effects are less than the Risperdal.
doomed_planet
QUOTE(SuzySteamboat @ Sep 18 2004, 07:45 PM)
What's the the quotes around ills, doomed planet? As someone who has suffered my entire life from severe clinical depression, I can assure you that it is a verifiable illness.

  

Depression occurs in every human being, at various times in our lives. It is not an
illness that can be cured with the use of drugs. Depression is not a bodily illness,
therefore, it cannot be treated as such, despite what psychiatric drug-pushers
would like to have us believe.

A person can take anti-depressants to help with problems of depression, but they
will not cure his depression, they will simply mask his symptoms. Stop the drug,
the depression is still there. And for some, such drugs exacerbate the problem.
Two, out of forty-eight, adolescents taking part in a clinical study (funded by Eli
Lilly), using Prozac, attempted suicide. Yet, Eli Lilly falsified the research results
of the particular study, going on to obtain carte blanche FDA approval.


Eli Lilly, the makers of Prozac, are in the business to make money.
They will not make money if they cannot sell people on the idea that their drugs
will effectively treat people's problems. They obtained FDA approval based on
altered clinical studies. They are doing damage to the future of America to the
tune of 10 million kids.

They are evil for what they are knowingly doing to children and adults, in the
name of mental health. But, we must share the responsibility. We have become a
society that wants to take the easy way. Rather than examine what is emotionally
upsetting us, what is truly at the core of our feelings of anger, depression and
sadness we choose to avoid the painful emotions. Rather than facing our troubles
head-on and really dealing with them we choose to take a magic pill that is
supposed to make it all better. It never does, and it never will. sad.gif
Cadman
DP I understand your point but it is a little flawed yes there is way to much overuse of these drugs but like in Suzy's cases as well as others there can be a need for certain drugs. In my family background on both sides their is manic/bipolar depression so when it becomes someone having a depression spell it needs to be taken more serious because of the possible outcomes. As well as one drug might not be a cure all sometimes it can take years to find something that works while working with the professionals.

But you are partly correct that there is to many people taking the drugs that probably should not be, that I am with you on. But when you lump everyone in saying no one should be taking the meds that is unfounded as well as a dangerous premise. In the article I used to start this thread it talked about what they are doing to the kids that are acting out or not performing to expectations in those ways I do think they are using the meds instead of getting to the real problem, but there are kids that actually should be taking the meds just not 10 million of them.
doomed_planet
QUOTE
DP I understand your point but it  is a little flawed yes there is way
to much overuse of these drugs but like in Suzy's cases as well as others
there can be a need for certain drugs.


How are these psychiatric drugs helping people? What are they really doing
to eliminate whatever emotional ailment a person may be suffering from?
They are numbing people to their emotions. They are merely masking the
symptoms, they are curing nothing. What is worse, such drugs do damage
to bodily organs, and become addictive.

The makers of Prozac have people believing that a chemical imbalance
in the brain is what is causing their depression. In chidren's cases, they are
prescribing this narcotic when youngsters are in their most important (and fragile)
stages of development. There are some sad stories involving children and the use of anti-depressants.

Reports of:
violence, death, and suffering have been rolling in at a rapid pace. Between its
introduction in 1988 and June of 1992, more than 23,000 adverse reaction reports
regarding Prozac had been received by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
These adverse reactions include delirium, hallucinations, convulsions, violent
hostility and aggression, psychosis, more than 1,100 suicide attempts and a
similar number of Prozac-related deaths...........


QUOTE
In my family background on both sides their is manic/bipolar depression
so when it becomes someone having a depression spell it needs to be taken more
serious because of the possible outcomes. As well as one drug might not be a cure
all sometimes it can take years to find something that works while working with
the professionals.


There are individuals in every family across the globe who suffer from depression.
Don't we all, here and there. I know I do!! Even those who suffer extreme cases
of sadness, depression, discontent with life; there is a better way to deal with
such emotional ills. Treating such problems with any type of drug is only covering
up the problem, and creating a new problem (drug dependancy) to boot.

QUOTE
But when you lump everyone in saying no one should be taking the meds
that is unfounded as well as a dangerous premise. In the article I used to start this
thread it talked about what they are doing to the kids that are acting out or not
performing to expectations in those ways I do think they are using the meds
instead of getting to the real problem, but there are kids that actually should be
taking the meds just not 10 million of them


You show me a kid that is cured by the use of such drugs. You won't find one.
What you'll find are children whose emotions have been numbed, whose spirits
have been put in straight-jackets. The best way to ruin a child's life is to put
that child on anti-depressants.
Google
CrazBit
"I suffer from a severe form of PMS, doomed planet. This is not just cramps and irritibility. Every month, around the time of my menstrual cycle, I become suicidal and extremely emotionally sensitive - I often start crying uncontrollably for hours over the littlest thing, or even over [B]nothing. I know for a fact that depression and severe PMS are not conditions made up by pharmaceudical companies to make money. In conjunction with Lexapro, which I take for my depression, I take an antipsychotic called Seroquel. "

Have you heard that neuroleptic drugs hinder long-term recovery? That many of them block the production of progesterone? Seroquel blocks the dopamine receptors; dopamine is one of our naturally- occurring 'feel-good' chemicals, and when you block the dopamine receptors, ... [COLOR=red]BOOM!, you get depressed.
Would you agree to take the abortion pill for your depression? You do know that mifepristone (RU486) is being touted as an antidepressant now, don't you? Did you also know that many of the older drugs are abortifacients?
Have you tried ANY alternatives neuroleptic drugs, such as nutritional supplements? Sorry to tell you this, but it doesn't sound like the Seroquel, Risperdal, Lexapro, or any other neuroleptic drug is 'helping' with your depression. zipped.gif
Why haven't you tried any alternatives to these heavy-duty drugs? Have you at all considered the harm they may be doing to your body?
Jaime
SuzySteamboat was kind enough to share a personal experience with us, but that wasn't an invitation for anyone to attempt to counsel her on medications. Let's stay on topic.

DEBATE:

Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?
DaffyGrl
Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

To a point, everyone wants a pill to make whatever ails them "go away". A lot of medications are spectacularly helpful (such as insulin, the new AIDs drugs, cholesterol-lowering drugs, gene therapy), and allow people to lead more healthy lives as a result. Just as antibiotics have become overprescribed to the point their efficacy is waning, anything can be abused.

It concerns me there still are people who believe depression is just someone "feeling bad" or going "through a rough patch". Clinical depression is a long-standing, debilitating condition that affects every aspect of one's life, not just "having the blues" for a few days. It can cause real physical illnesses if not treated in some way, whether it be psychotherapy or medication. But to dismiss it out of hand as unimportant is an insult to the millions who suffer with it every day.
Pittslp
Everyone seems to be focusing on the "conspiracy theory" here. It is is important to remember that more people are being medicated for things now because there are more options available to them and because health care professionals are also doing a better job of identifying disorders. There are plenty of undiagnosed adults walking around with things like ADHD, high functioning autism, etc. that were never identified 20 years ago, because it was still "taboo."

Of course, there will always be people in search of the "magic pill" for everything, but the vast majority of people are probably not overmedicated. Every medication has a side effect, even over the counter drugs, so people should be cautious. People should also not attempt to "heal" themselves by ONLY nutrition/herbal "cures. Some drugs are needed and they are effective. People should weight the positives with the negatives and make an informed decision.

The best way to ruin a child's life is to not get them the help they need. Making blanket statements like "depression occurs in every human being" is WRONG. Having a "rough period" is not clinical depression and unless you have been diagnosed with it, I'd stay away from telling other people how they feel. You or I have no idea how they feel! And...until YOU have actually treated "Junior," who has ADHD and can't stay focused for more than a minute, I wouldn't be too quick to call the people who do lazy.

This discussion reminds me a lot of the autism/vaccination debate. Even though there is no evidence to support this claim, people shout about vaccinations "causing" autism because the incidence and prevalence are up. They are up because the kids are being identified earlier and better!
doomed_planet
QUOTE(Pittslp @ Sep 23 2004, 01:47 PM)
Everyone seems to be focusing on
the "conspiracy theory" here. It is is important to remember that more people are
being medicated for things now because there are more options available to them
and because health care professionals are also doing a better job of identifying
disorders.




 


When you say more options available are you referring to the fact that
more psychiatric drugs have been created? Doctors have been looked
upon as infallible gods, that can do no wrong. The fact of the matter
is there are many doctors who strive to do right by others. There
are also many doctors who, when confronted with certain psychological
problems they cannot cure or solve, will prescribe drugs, regardless of the fact
that those drugs only cover up, or mask, such problems.

QUOTE
There are plenty of undiagnosed adults walking around with things like
ADHD, high functioning autism, etc. that were never identified 20 years ago,
because it was still "taboo."


Show me how taking narcotic-level drugs is going to cure such afflictions.
It is merely a way for drug companies to sell drugs. Put a fancy name on
a condition, tell the sufferer of that condition that he needs to be on drugs
to be okay, and there you go. I have never met someone who has been
cured of any mental or emotional malady, with the use of drugs.

QUOTE
Of course, there will always be people in search of the "magic pill" for
everything, but the vast majority of people are probably not overmedicated.



I wish you were right about that, but 10 million kids on Prozak is one of
the most depressing statistics I have yet to see. Never mind all of the adults
on such drugs, and all of the other drugs that are now available to the masses.

QUOTE
I'd stay away from telling other people how they feel. You or I have no
idea how they feel!  And...until YOU have actually treated "Junior," who has ADHD
and can't stay focused for more than a minute, I wouldn't be too quick to call the
people who do lazy.


Yes, we cannot begin to imagine how others feel. I can empathize with parents
who feel desperate. Drug companies, such as Eli Lilly, exploit that despair
by offering deadly solutions to problems that they have no intention of fixing.

Those parents who have children that cannot stay focused for more than one
minute ought to think long and hard about what they are doing to their children's
health, in the long-term, before putting them on mind-altering, addictive, harmful
drugs.

They are using drugs as the solution. Drugs can only cover up the problem.
They will not solve the problem. And what is worse, drugs end up a bigger
problem than what they were orignally prescribed for.
Devils Advocate
QUOTE
There are individuals in every family across the globe who suffer from depression. Don't we all, here and there. I know I do!! Even those who suffer extreme cases of sadness, depression, discontent with life; there is a better way to deal with such emotional ills.


First off I'd like to make a distinction: the depression you're talking about, Doomed_planet, is far smaller in magnitude than the type of depression suzy steamboat is talking about. People with Major Depressive Disorder or Bipolar Disorder have an illnesses that affects their daily lives very strongly. With out taking certain drugs to stabilize their mood it can be very difficult for them to live like people that do not suffer a mood disorder.

I know a person who is diagnosed Bipolar II, and takes medication. She claims that while on meds she doesn't feel "numb", because she is happy that her illness is under control and being helped.

DSM-IV

Also, I would like to know what these "better ways" you are talking about dealing with "sadness, depression, discontent with life..." are. Do you mean talk therapy, or something more like exercise and proper nutrition? I'm just curious.

Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

In general I would say yes, we are becoming too dependent. But I believe that there is a distinction to be made when it comes to things I mentioned above. I think parents/teachers are too fast to assume a kid has ADD/ADHD, and doctors may be too willing to prescribe meds.

Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?

I believe this could be good thing. As was stated before: children haven't changed over the past 20 years, but the greed of the drug companies has. I think the drug companies may be changing faster than our children.
doomed_planet
QUOTE(Devils Advocate @ Sep 25 2004, 11:32 PM)
First off I'd like to make a
distinction: the depression you're talking about, Doomed_planet, is far
smaller in magnitude than the type of depression suzy steamboat
is talking about.  People with Major Depressive Disorder or Bipolar Disorder have
an illnesses that affects their daily lives very strongly.  With out taking certain
drugs to stabilize their mood it can be very difficult for them to live like people
that do not suffer a mood disorder.  



Should someone who suffers from severe depression, take a drug (similar to LSD),
to help with drastic mood swings, feelings of despair, etc. and honestly expect it
to be a viable, healthy solution? Never mind what drug companies and doctors
are saying, use common sense.

Drugs such as prozak are not made to cure depression or any other mental
disorder. They are simply there to help people to cope. And, they may
help in the way that they put a buffer between a person and his problem.
The problem IS still there, however, and it will still be there if and when
the person decides to stop using the drugs.

QUOTE
I know a person who is diagnosed Bipolar II, and takes medication.  She
claims that while on meds she doesn't feel "numb", because she is happy that her
illness is under control and being helped.


What good is a solution if it cannot be a long-term solution without serious side-
effects. Would you take cocaine, marijuana, or alcohol to solve such an emotional
problem?

How can any person expect to see positive results when he is, in essence, being
doped up and slowly turned into a human vegetable. ermm.gif

QUOTE
Also, I would like to know what these "better ways" you are talking about
dealing with "sadness, depression, discontent with life..." are.  Do you mean talk
therapy,or something more like exercise and proper nutrition?  I'm just curious.


Proper nutrition, herbs, naturopathic remedies, and the like, are so quickly
discarded when they can be of much greater benefit to the overall health and well-
being of individuals then toxic, mind-altering chemicals, better known as
anti-depressants.

Exercise is highly under-rated. It is probably one of the best ways to add balance
to any person's life - especially children who have super-high-energy, because
they are the kids who get diagnosed with disorder after disorder. There are some
kids who have boat-loads of energy to begin with. Then you add a high-sugar
diet, and you come up with a candidate for ADD or ADHD, whatever!

But it's not that simple, you say? Regardless of the complexity of a problem that
an individual suffers from, psychiatric drugs are never the answer. The
companies who make such drugs won't tell us that - they have a vested interest
in maintaining their billions of dollars in profits.

* For profit statistics and other info re: anti-depressants refer to my earlier posts.
Victoria Silverwolf
Let me answer the second question first, because we had a good debate about this very subject quite some time ago:

Advertising Prescription Drugs To Consumers: Good Idea Or Bad Idea?

Although such advertisements may be of some benefit to consumers, in that they provide information, I believe that this advantage is greatly outweighed by the tendency for consumers to desire specific prescription drugs before proper diagnosis has been made.

Prescription medications are a very special kind of consumer product. It's hard to think of another situation in which a product is perfectly legal to purchase, but only after "permission" has been granted by a professional. Given the fact that these products, no matter how helpful they may be, can be dangerous or even fatal when not used correctly, I believe this kind of regulation is appropriate. Restriction of direct advertising to consumers seems like a proper part of such regulation.

To answer the first question, I have to say that there is no doubt that almost all of us want a "quick fix" for our illnesses. Usually that means taking a pill. The overprescription of all drugs, not just psychiatric medications, is a serious problem. (Probably the biggest part of this problem is the overprescription and improper use of antibiotics, which causes virulent micro-organisms to become resistant to the very tools we use to fight them.)

doomed planet makes some excellent points. Diet and exercise are extremely important in staying healthy. For psychiatric illnesses, psychological counseling may be very helpful.

However, I cannot agree with this statement:

QUOTE
Regardless of the complexity of a problem that
an individual suffers from, psychiatric drugs are never the answer.


There are individuals who would be dead, or institutionalized, or otherwise completely unable to function, without the proper use of psychiatric medications.

It should be stressed here that mental illnesses are "real" diseases, with physical causes within the brain. Clinical depression, for example, isn't just "feeling sad;" it's a cluster of symptoms caused by an imbalance of neurotransmitters.

We should think of mental illnesses in the way we think of diabetes. We should accept that they are diseases with physical causes. There is no doubt at all that diet, exercise, and other "lifestyle" factors are of great importance in preventing and treating these diseases. However, there are certainly times when medication is appropriate. Insulin and other antidiabetic medications save lives and allow people to function properly. So do psychiatric medications. Both can be deadly if not used properly. Both can work miracles when used properly.
doomed_planet
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Sep 26 2004, 08:58 PM)
There are individuals who would be dead, or institutionalized, or otherwise completely unable to function, without the proper use of psychiatric medications.



That is exactly what the makers of such psychiatric drugs would like to
have all of us believe.

QUOTE
It should be stressed here that mental illnesses are "real" diseases,
with physical causes within the brain.  Clinical depression, for example, isn't just "feeling sad;" it's a cluster of symptoms caused by an imbalance of
neurotransmitters.


I am familiar with that definition as it relates to depression (imbalance of
neurotransmitters). That is a terrific way to confuse the general public
into believing such a definition. Can any of us do a test on ourselves
to see what the heck they are talking about? And how can they prove that
neurotransmitters "unbalanced" is what causes depression? They can
measure brain function of various types of people who are happy, sad,
upset, etc., but how can they say that low serotonin levels (for example),
are the cause of depression, when they, in fact, could be the effect of the
negative emotions that depressed people have inside them?

Aren't we more than animals? Do we not have spiritual issues that cause
us great sadness? Doctors and psychiatrists have not really found the cause
of depression. There is no ONE cause for such emotional and spiritual un-
happiness. Anyone who has lived has suffered great emotional pains.
But, doctors are trying to put those deep emotional issues on the same
plane as a broken leg, or a clogged artery. They are two very different
types of ills.

Yes, there are people with serious mental problems that have left them hanging
by a limb. Injecting them with psychiatric drugs may keep them
from harming themselves and/or others. They can be better contained
and controlled, as well. But those drugs will never cure - they will
merely turn individuals into apathetic zombies.

Psychiatric drugs are there for one reason, to dull the senses of the individual
so he will not feel the burden of what is deeply troubling him. I guess a
suicidal person's life could be saved by putting him on such meds, numbing
his emotions, blinding him to all that troubles him. What kind of a life is it,
if the only way to "cure" an individual is to emotionally lobotomize him....

Forgive me, Victoria, I disagree with the medical definition of depression.
Devils Advocate
QUOTE
Psychiatric drugs are there for one reason, to dull the senses of the individual so he will not feel the burden of what is deeply troubling him. I guess a
suicidal person's life could be saved by putting him on such meds, numbing
his emotions, blinding him to all that troubles him. What kind of a life is it,
if the only way to "cure" an individual is to emotionally lobotomize him....


You seem to have this opinion, and are not willing to deviate from it. The problem with having a psychological illness is that it can not be healed by the body. When one breaks an arm, the body will naturally heal itself. But when one has a psychological problem, like Major Depressive Disorders, they body cannot heal itself because something may be deformed.

In the case of depression, it is generally held that with an increase in serotonin levels there is a decrease in depression. This is why Prozac, Zoloft, and other drugs work. These drugs are SSRI's, which means they block the serotonin from being taken back by the neurons, allowing more serotonin to be absorbed. If an individual has a lack of serotonin receptors or the re-uptake of serotonin is too quick, then the individual does not obtain the proper amount; which can lead to depression. This problem in the individual cannot be cured by any other methods I know of, which is why the person would need to be on the medication indefinitely.

Although I do agree with you that an increase in exercise, proper eating habits, and other treatments would do many people more good than just popping some pills. But that's too hard for some people I suppose.
Pittslp
[quote=doomed_planet,Sep 26 2004, 03:23 AM]
[/QUOTE]
When you say more options available are you referring to the fact that
more psychiatric drugs have been created? Doctors have been looked
upon as infallible gods, that can do no wrong. The fact of the matter
is there are many doctors who strive to do right by others. There
are also many doctors who, when confronted with certain psychological
problems they cannot cure or solve, will prescribe drugs, regardless of the fact
that those drugs only cover up, or mask, such problems.


Show me how taking narcotic-level drugs is going to cure such afflictions.
It is merely a way for drug companies to sell drugs. Put a fancy name on
a condition, tell the sufferer of that condition that he needs to be on drugs
to be okay, and there you go. I have never met someone who has been
cured of any mental or emotional malady, with the use of drugs.


I wish you were right about that, but 10 million kids on Prozak is one of
the most depressing statistics I have yet to see. Never mind all of the adults
on such drugs, and all of the other drugs that are now available to the masses.

Yes, we cannot begin to imagine how others feel. I can empathize with parents
who feel desperate. Drug companies, such as Eli Lilly, exploit that despair
by offering deadly solutions to problems that they have no intention of fixing.

Those parents who have children that cannot stay focused for more than one
minute ought to think long and hard about what they are doing to their children's
health, in the long-term, before putting them on mind-altering, addictive, harmful
drugs.

They are using drugs as the solution. Drugs can only cover up the problem.
They will not solve the problem. And what is worse, drugs end up a bigger
problem than what they were orignally prescribed for. [/quote]
Ok, so what is your solution? You have said that drugs are not the answer, so what is the answer for these kids? Drugs certainly are not for everyone and they should be used only if absolutely necessary, but they are necessary in some cases. You aregument seems to be that they are never needed. There are behavioral treatments for children with ADHD, but those need to be combined with drugs in some cases. The term "treatment" typically implies that there will be managemnt of the problem, not "fixing" the problem. Wearing glasses, taking allergy meds, taking insulin, etc. do not "fix" problems, they help manage the problems. If you wanna make the argument that drug companies should be spending more time and money working on drugs with less side-effects and less money running commercials, buying presents for doctors, etc., I have no argument with that. I totally agree. But you can't make the argument that just because a drug does not "fix" something, it is useless. They are very few disorders with a "cure."
Cube Jockey
Is our society becoming to dependent on medications as a cure all, especially when the side effects can outweigh the benefits sometimes?

I would say so, and I'm not even that old. I remember when kids used to be described as "boisterous" when they were young or "moody" as teenagers and it was left at that - something you just had to work through. Now it seems that the approach from a lot of parents (including mine for younger siblings) is to simply put them on some kind of behavior altering drugs.

I think there are certainly cases where these drugs can help, but I have the feeling that many doctors prescribe them simply to appease the parents because the symptoms fit the use of the drugs.

Should pharmaceutical companies have the reins pulled back on advertising to consumers like they had before 1997?

In my personal opinion, yes. I see absolutely no reason for companies to be running commercials on TV to "ask your doctor about X". I think that pharmaceutical companies should definitely strive to keep doctors informed, but the average person really has no reason to ask their doctor about random medications.

The worst part about it is that most of the commercials (with a few notable exceptions) give you absolutely no clue what they are advertising to cure. They just show people acting happy and relieved, list the side effects and say to ask your doctor about the medication.
bucket
I am disappointed about the direction this debate took. I think it began with the personal story of PMS ..the original focus was CHILDREN most of which are not even menstrual yet! We are talking about 6,7,8 + yr olds. My mother is a grade school teacher and has some frightening stories to tell of children been inappropriately or overly drugged...twitching, unable to stay awake, unresponsive..it is just DISGUSTING. And I don't doubt some people have problems and seriously do need medication but what about 6,7, 8 yr olds who are taking this stuff that was never intended for their age? Has never been researched, developed or tested with their age group in mind.

Also they do over prescribe this junk...I too have briefly and I mean briefly discussed depressed moods and panicked feelings while I was undergoing a divorce..uh duh, to my doctor and she immediately wrote me a script for Prozac. It is that easy to get yourself medicated in this country and often it is children these scripts are being written for.

I for one am glad to see some focus from our govt in regards to this. There has been a complete change in regards to prescription of antibiotics..thankfully!..in pediatric care and now I can only hope we will now turn our attentions to prevent over prescription of psychiatric drugs.

I have one of my children who happens to be VERY sensitive to certain food additives and preservatives..it is not some bizarre thing on her part either..it is documented that many children have this "sensitivity" to these food colorings and flavorings. What it does to her is amp her up..she looses all control of herself and her emotions...she cries, laughs, gets angry, can't stop talking, her heart rate increases etc. The two that really sets her off is red #40 and MSG ...do you have any idea how much children oriented food has this coloring and flavoring in it? From breakfast cereals, to fruit snacks, crackers to snack bars, to processed meats.

How many other children have this sensitivity?
How many other children are being affected by this and being diagnosed SOLELY based on a quick chat with the parents as having mental or behavior problems?
How many parents allow their 6 yr olds to have a coke at breakfast? Then send them off to school..now sit still and behave.
How many parents provide for their children nothing but processed chemical diets?
Anyone here aware of what they feed kids at school?
How many kids get to run around and be active enough?

The whole wellness of our bodies involves many factors and I for one believe that your mental wellbeing greatly ties into your daily diet and exercise. I don't think it is so strange to believe that if we can malnourish and weaken our bodies through a poor diet and lack of activity we can just as easily malnourish our minds and mental health too.
DaffyGrl
And just another example of how "doctor" doesn't always know best. Merck has pulled Vioxx off the shelves and halted production due to serious side effects (those hand-in-hand buddies, heart attack and stroke).

Merck Pulls Vioxx

But a similar drug is being defended by its makers: Pfizer Insists Celebrex Safe

I don't know if this case has been mentioned as one of the child/Prozac tragedies, but a 10 year old boy in Texas who was taking Prozac is up on murder charges after shooting his father to death. (Granted, there are some other factors involved here - divorce, and possible abuse.) Boy Charged with Murder This boy faces spending the rest of his life in prison. A very sad situation. sad.gif

When will adults pull their heads out of their you-know-whats and, rather than throw a pill at the kid, be more attentive and interested in order to discover the root of the child's problem??
nebraska29
In looking at other possible explanations as to why 10 million kids are "over-medicated" we need to consider the possibility that there is more to this issue than just greedy pharmaceutical companies. For one, ADHD is a relatively recently recognized disorder. From it's earliest recognition to now, the number of kids identified would naturally increase and thus, appear to skyrocket. The methods of detection and treatment have increased over the years, and perhaps there shouldn't be a surprise in the number of treated children. Not only that, but a recently published Journal of American Medical Association report found that charges of overmedication were exaggerated.

QUOTE
Epidemiologic studies using standardized diagnostic criteria suggest that 3 percent to 6 percent of the school-aged population may have ADHD. The percentage of U.S. youth being treated for ADHD is at most at the lower end of this prevalence range,
-from the report.
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