This thread is initially for those who identify themselves as conservatives to tell us why they are conservative and how they define conservatism. Moderates and liberals are welcome to ask questions or raise critical points for discussion in general terms - but let's try to keep it civil!

I consider myself a republican, in todays society that makes me a conservative, yet I feel that is a lame label. Great business leaders that take risks to succeed, many of them are republicans, yet they are not conservative. As a conservative I feel that each person in this country can achieve as much as they want, through hard work and good moral principles. I believe government exists to provide national security and to provide some help to less fortunate people. I don't believe in cradle to grave government nannying. I don't believe government can solve society's ills. If people really want to solve a problem, the community must do it, if a government program is developed to fix a problem, that alone guarantees it will not be fixed. As a conservative I have an eternal optimism about America, our ideas, our inherent goodness, and role as the beacon of freedom for the world.

This is something I've always wondered about. Do you really believe this? Let's assume for a moment that this is true. So, every adult in this country does it. They all want the same things - leisure to travel, the car they want, a big house, a fat bank account. Is this even possible? No. It is not. It is a patently absurd idea to think that every single adult in this society could achieve that. It just isn't possible. Who would be the servants, nannies, cooks, these people might want? Who would work at McDonalds? Or would people working these jobs make however much money they wanted? Where would the money come from? I think your philosophy here is unrealistic because its goal can never be realized.


And in this statement you admit, it seems, that fortune DOES play a role. So is it hard work? Or is it luck?

I respect your optimism. I too am an optimist. I think you have strong beliefs, and I am not trying to attack you. I just don't see these questions answered. Whenever I ask conservatives the first question, about limitless wealth, they seem to always either change the subject or hem and haw about "wealth creation."

quarkhead,

I think your philosophy is also unrealistic. You assume that everyone has the drive and ambition to achieve success. I think there are multitudes of people in this country who are completely happy going to Walmart on the weekends, watching wrestling, and having a sixpack of Shlitz in the fridge. I can't count the number of people I've met who have no interest in the world around them, or bettering it. To me, spending your money on lottery tickets does not constitute striving for achievement.

I agree that everybody can't be successful, and somebody has to be the minimum wage workers, my point is that there are plenty of people more than willing to fill that need.

I'm a conservative (although Libertarian, not Republican). I started out in my youth fairly liberal, but then I started in a profession that forced me to work harder than I daresay, the majority of my fellow Americans. I was made to realize that personal responsibility and accountability the hallmarks of personal success. I don't look down on anyone does not follow my philosophy, and I don't mean to say that conservatives have the market cornered on it.

I try to raise my children to follow the golden rule, and to always do the right thing. I try and be compassionate as I can be, but I have little tolerance for anyone who does not want to help themselves or especially, their family.

I believe in limited government, personal freedoms, and diversity of thoughts and ideals.
I believe in environmental protection with common sense, the right to keep and bear arms and protect my family, and the basic rights as outlined in our Constitution.
These things and more, make a conservative.

Uh, so you're saying if one shops at Walmart, watches wrestling and drinks beer ...this means he doesn't work hard or have an interest in bettering the world in which he lives? And buying lottery tickets is another sign of no ambition?

What if one shops at Walmart, drinks wine and does not watch wrestling and buys a lottery ticket only occasionally? How then, would you rate this person?

How do you know you work harder than the majority? Plenty of those Walmart shoppers have part time evening and/or weekend jobs in addition to their regular full time work. Some own income property which involves hours and hours of work to maintain. Some watch their children while their wives work.

You sound very judgemental. I hate that. As far as being compassionate ...that's a hoot!

Madtown

Madtown, I think you are not properly interpreting what Dontreadonme is saying. He never said that if one likes Wal-mart or beer or whatever, they are automatically lazy. He is saying some are and like it that way. He is also saying the world needs those people.

The simple fact is, some people don't care about the stuff we do here. They aren't interested in debating politics and current events. I think what frustrates conservatives is that some of these same people are so willing to accept government aid and not even have the dignity to understand the system that governs them. All they know is when the money runs out it is time to complain (keep in mind this is a small number of people and not the primary reason that separates conservatives and liberals, IMHO).

He said:

You assume that everyone has the drive and ambition to achieve success. I think there are multitudes of people in this country who are completely happy going to Walmart on the weekends, watching wrestling, and having a sixpack of Shlitz in the fridge. I can't count the number of people I've met who have no interest in the world around them, or bettering it. To me, spending your money on lottery tickets does not constitute striving for achievement.

He lumps Walmart shoppers etc. with those who have no interest in the world around them. It just isn't so.

I know it is a SMALL amount of people, so what's the fuss? Better to worry about the big corporation crooks who shop at fancy stores, and drink martini's and make off with their workers retirement money.

I can't stand people who think they are better than other people and that's how Dont comes across to me.

Oh my god!
You have to be kidding me!

Since my example of Walmart is so offensive, I humbly retract it.

So I'm judgemental, uncompassionate, and think I'm better than everyone else.

If I had said a 40 oz. of malt liqueur, instead a six pack of Shlitz, would I be a racist too?

Hey lets throw in sexist and homophobic too.

For all liberals talk of diversity and tolerance, it is proven again to be only skin deep. God forbid you have any lofty ideals of open political discourse.

Thank you, Jaime, for further clarifying my position, since my post evidently came off so elitist.

BTW - I shop at walmart and always have beer in my refrigerator.........but I don't watch wrestling

I'm wondering what conservatives think about GWB's tax breaks for the rich, and his statement that, in effect, any criticism of this is promoting class warfare. Newt Gingrich reiterated this sentiment on one of the Sunday political yak shows this morning. Please keep in mind that our economic classes stratify out to lower, middle, and upper, with some fine splits between the three major classes. Also keep in mind that the economic doldrums we are in are affected the middle class the most. So is promoting help for the middle class promoting "class warfare"?

I for one do not support any tax breaks that are not available to all Americans. I favor across the board tax cuts.

I can add no more except these statistics from the IRS given to the Congress Joint Economic Commitee.

The wealthier the American, the greater the proportion of taxes he or she pays. In 1999, for example, the top 1 percent of all wage earners earned 19.5 percent of all adjusted gross income reported to the IRS, yet they paid 36.2 percent – or more than one-third – of all federal income taxes. Put another way, the top 1 percent of taxpayers on average pay double their proportion of taxes compared to what they actually earn.

Similarly, the top 5 percent of wage earners made just a third of all income reported to the IRS, but paid more than half of all federal taxes collected by Uncle Sam. Overall, the top 25 percent of wage earners in this country pay more than 83 percent of all federal income taxes, while earning 66 percent of all income.

I have really wanted to state my position in this thread. I am, afterall, slightly conservative.

I can't find the right way to clearly say everything I need to say.

In the meantime, if you're really interested in learning how I got to my current philosophy, check out this old thread: Growth and Your Political Philosophy, Have you changed?

It's in casual conversation because, at the time, we didn't have a general politcal debate....maybe I outta move it

I'll keep working on finding the right words.

No, I'm not kidding Dont!

I think your philosophy is also unrealistic. You assume that everyone has the drive and ambition to achieve success. I think there are multitudes of people in this country who are completely happy going to Walmart on the weekends, watching wrestling, and having a sixpack of Shlitz in the fridge. I can't count the number of people I've met who have no interest in the world around them, or bettering it. To me, spending your money on lottery tickets does not constitute striving for achievement.

Since in the above paragraph you state that everybody doesn't not have dirve and ambition to achieve success what am I to think when you go on to mention Walmart shopper etc?

That there is a class of unambitious people who are content to shop, drink & watch tv and have no interest in the world around them except for spending money on lottery tickets which does not constitute striving for achievement.

You, on the other hand, work harder than the majority of Americans and unlike the shoppers/drinkers/tv watchers, you know all about personal responsibility and accountability.

How do you know how hard people work or what problems they have? Maybe they work to the best of their ability. And you're right when you say that conservatives don't have the market cornered on personal success. Money is not the only sign of success.

Am I right that your philosophy is hard work = success? Surprise! That is the philosophy of most Americans, but it doesn't always work out that way.

No one ( and I mean NO ONE) was raised in a more work ethic family than I was, but I guess I learned something you didn't. I learned that I have a responsibility, not only to myself, but to those less fortunate than myself.

There, but for the grace of God, go I.....or something like that. It may be you that needs help tomorrow.

Myself, I don't shop at Walmarts, the isles are too narrow.

Madtown

Ok, I will attempt to clarify my position one more time so this doesn't turn into the Dontreadonme vs. Madtown forum.

Why are you hung up on Walmart? I shop at Walmart, I don't think any less of myself, nor do I look down on my fellow patrons.
I was trying to make analogy of people who pursue material pleasures as opposed to intellectual ones without regard to how the world functions around them. I've been to some desolate places around the country where the 'big' entertainment on the weekends was driving to the Super Walmart. I though it was humorous when I typed it, but I guess it was just to me.



Well to put it bluntly, if I don't do my job at a level of 100%, my soldiers may very well die. That's their blood on my hands, their dogtags in my pocket, and my signature on the letter to their next of kin. So I do know a little something about responsibility and accountability. And before I sound elitist, I am fully aware and give my utmost support to the thousands of other who shoulder similar burdens.

Of course I can't see into the hearts of every American, nor can you. But I do know that there are people who don't work to the best of their ability. I didn't imply they were all liberal, I didn't even imply that they constituted a large percentage of the population.

And in no way do I think that money equals success. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I consider myself very successful. I have a wonderful wife and two beautiful little girls, and I provide for them pretty darn well, and I don't mean just with my paycheck. That and the ability to learn and grow with an open mind, and pass that on to my children makes me successful.


Well, I've sworn to give my life, if need be, in the defense of my country, it's citizens, and my fellow soldiers. I've helped to do my part to defend the freedoms we enjoy in this country as well as participated in Humanitarian Relief Missions to various locations around the world, helping those less fortunate than myself.

I have found these qualities that I try and adhere to, most embodied in the modern conservative movement.
There are some liberal ideas that I subscribe to, but on the whole, I don't call myself a liberal, nor have I tried to denigrate liberals in this forum.

DTOM

Ok, I take back my comment about responsibility to others.

I'm not hung up on Walmart. I dont shop there because of the narrow aisles. (my attempt at humor)

Madtown

OK, truce....we both have lame walmart humor

I would define my Conservatism as basically live and let live. I am opposed to simply accepting any idea as a valid and good thing until it is qualified AS a good or positive thing. An example of this would be the issue of global warming. The junk science behid the Kyoto agreement is staggerring and the real experts have NOT been heard from extensively. I am against social engineering what so ever UNLESS it has an endgame. The government (in the US) should do it's requirements and get out of everything else..IMHO. Social Security being one that needs to go and the borders controlled. While I think that Unions are a GOOD thing on the whole they are out of control..ie teachers unions. They basically control the educational system here and if you want to solve these problems you better start qualifying the curriculums. I mean we TEACH the things that need to be taught and teach them about WHY America is such a great country and the history of it. Entirely WAY too much garbage education today..and I come from this sector. Too much politics and too little results for the money we spend..IMHO. I believe that politics in this country have gotten WAY outa control and the end always justifies the means. We place TOO little emphasis on the moral character of our leaders and allow things we would NEVER allow in our houses. Remember these people are supposed to represent YOU..and I WILL admit I have voted Democratic on this alone. Wheras and shining example of this would be Gary Condit. The NOW org. and the voters of his district get what they vote for. NOW is silent and they are supposed to be for womens rights? This man was having an affair with her and wouldn't even help the police locate her. These kinds of activities leave open the possiblities for extortion at the highest levels of out government and is unacceptable. After 911 you would think people would get the idea.

Pretty much some of it...I could go on but pretty much limited government.

Back to lurking,
Darcaine

I'll post my response to MadTown here, so it won't be off topic in the liberal forum.


Wow....Nothing like generalizing a whole group of people is there.
Hmmm....the firestorm that would ensue if a conservative made a post like that about what liberals are supposedly against.

I can only speak for myself, but this conservative is not against:

Welfare, as long as it is temporary and includes a work training or employment seeking provision.

Public schools, I just think they are broke right now, and throwing money at a broken system doesn't fix it.

Medicare and Medicaid.

Student loans, definetly support those.

Healthcare for the poor, see above.

We already beat Walmart into the ground

Free speech, everybody has the right to flap their soup coolers.

Well, I am against Affirmative Action, at least in it's present form.

I don't care who goes to their doctor.

I think Unions have run their course. But they definetly ONCE had value.

Minimum wage? Nothing against it, but try and raise it to something like $10.00 an hour, as I've seen some proposals, and watch how many small businesses are forced to lay people off.

Nothing against Headstart.

Nothing against unemployment insurance.

Social security, If you want SS, then go for it, but what in the world is wrong with letting people voluntarily investing at least some of their money themselves? Someone is going to have to explain opposition to this for me sometime.

Gun control, we don't enforce most of the gun laws on the books as it is, what more do we need? I certainly don't want criminals to have guns, but if you take citizens right to keep and bear arms away, then the criminals will be the only ones left with guns.

I have fine health insurance, how could I be against it?

People living past 65?????????? Oh yes just call me Dr. Mengele....please

Abortion, don't like it except in cases of rape, incest and health of the mother, but as long as it is legal, nothing I can do about it.

Well, I don't care for rap music, but to each their own.

big bonus's for whitehouse bigshots, you'd have to qualify that one, but I have a sneaky suspicion that something like that occurs with both parties.

War, only people who have not seen war can possibly be 'for' it.

Big corporation crooks, hate 'em as mush as common street criminals, lock 'em up.

As for my 'lottery' remark, I was referring to the fact that some people spend their hard earned money trying to get rich quick, or strike it big with no effort rather than spend it on making life better for their families. I play the lottery occasionally, but I don't count on it for my retirement. And I don't take food out of my children's mouths to play it.



How do you know?????

I didn't say that every conservative was against every point. What I posted was what I took in from conservatives on this board.

I don't know what drive and ambition certain people have or don't have, that's why I don't judge them. I can't look into their hearts, but I can look into their faces and I've lived long enough to know there are many reasons why people live and act the way they do.

Madtown

I didn't mean to misconstrue what you meant,

It just sounded like you were lumping all conservatives into that idealogy.

I was being a bit of a smart aleck DTOM. You're ok for the most part.

See Really Lucky Duckies thread for the bonus to the all ready well off.

Madtown

What do conservatives think about Bush's economic stimulus package? The alternative from the Democrats?