The Green Zone has always been touted as “heavily fortified” and “heavily guarded” and pretty much the safest place to be if you have to be in Iraq (Global Security). Now this. And I believe the GZ was breached once before.

I saw a news story a while back (60 Minutes, I think) about life in the GZ, and there are bazaars inside – looks like a giant swap meet – run by Iraqis. It’s supposedly a little “slice of home” to the US troops and civilian contractors, with restaurants and bars, dancing and shops.

But don't things like this (see below) inflame the fundamentalist terrorists all the more?

This, in a country where it is considered shocking for a woman to go about with her head uncovered.

I’ve got a mixed bag of questions:

Should Americans show a little more respect for local customs?

Does the Green Zone offer a false sense of safety?

Are we doing enough to find and stop this animal, Zarqawi?

edited to correct source

1) If it is only the terrorists objecting to the women running around in shorts than no. But, if it is the everyday citizens who find it offensive than yes, i would concede that maybe the soldiers should show some more respect. We should never concede to terrorists is any way shape or form. We must do more to show the ordinary iraqi citizen that we care about their needs and that we respect their customs. But again, if the iraqis find it ok...then its ok with me.

2)I dont think so. Saying that it is the most fortified part of Iraq is fact. That doesnt mean that it is invulnerable to attack...just that it is safe than anywhere else you might go.

3) Of course not. For Bush, its damned if you do, damned if you don't. If the military doesnt do more, some soldiers will die and people will criticize. If they do more, more soldiers will die and Bush will be criticized even more and it might cost him votes.

Why is any attack on this area even considered terrorist attack? The entire GZ is one giant legitmate military target- if they were to wipe out everything inside that compound it would be totally legitmate- that entire area is purely for the support and command structure for the occupying forces- why is it a "terrorist attack" if anything violent is done to this area?

An "enemy" attack, sure, "terrorist" attack pretty much cheapens the word.

Really? I had thought Iraq was a lot more progressive. Women going about without hijabs is not all that unusual in Iraq is it? What about Christian women? Or secular Iraqi women? I totally disagree with this statement. I have a National Geographic library...really I do..and they did this really interesting article on the Iraqi shiites..in it they had a photo of two young Iraqi girls at a fair in Sadr city enjoying a ride..one in a Hijab..while the other was like any child you would see at any American fair...decorated blue jeans, flashy neon shirt and sunglasses. Wish I could share the picture....it is in the June 2004 magazine....but I think women in Iraq go about in the green zone and outside it heads uncovered.


So no I don't think this is a culture clash Americans are forcing on Iraqis.

And pizza! I don't think so either...when I was 12 (so back in 1986) my dad came so close..too close! ..to moving the family to KSA to open of all things a pizza chain with an Arab friend of his...and I am not making this up. I am sure Arabs have seen pizza before.

bucket, you may be right about Iraq; I was under the impression that most religious Muslims required that their women covered their heads, and bare legs was an absolute no-no. But then again, maybe not. Maybe the site of a sweaty, bare-headed female in shorts doesn't affect Iraqis at all. Human Rights Watch

As for the pizza remark, please. I think you're missing the overall point. I noticed you didn't mention the porn. Is porn OK in Iraq too?

I know that in the Gulf War, our company representatives in Riyadh were told to respect local customs, and were briefed on what those customs were.

Iraq was a secular state..under Hussein and Islamic law was not incorporated into the govt and politics. Now is another story...all these religious wackos exerting their own extreme fundamentalist views. I didn't address the "site of a sweaty, bare-headed female in shorts" because I didn't know what it was in reference to..Iraqi women joggers? Westerners? I dunno..so all I addressed was your comment that going sans-hijab in Iraq is shocking. I don't believe that is true..I think what is shocking is the fact that the current threat of violence is so severe in that country right now that women are being coerced into a form of repression not even seen during Saddam's reign.
Also I am not sure what your link is supposed to represent? Here is an interesting article on the hijab and other situations regarding women in Iraq.

Iraqi women juggle freedom, 'moral duty'




Hey you are the one who highlighted pizza sales as a factor in terrorism in Iraq...sorry I found it funny.
I also think Iraqis have seen porn too..and yeah sure it is ok..I dunno why it wouldn't be. I don't really understand the line of questioning and what exactly the point is I am missing. Do I feel westerners in the GZ running about in shorts, eating pizza and purchasing porn are inflaming the terrorists and disrespecting Iraqi culture..No more than doing so in the US.. but what I do think is the fact the westerners are in the GZ with that whole military get-up is what inflames the terrorists, doesn't matter what they eat or wear.
Iraqis are probably purchasing more porn than the Americans!

Should Americans show a little more respect for local customs?

Quick answer for now, as I get the kids to bed. Iraqi's are doing the selling of alchohol and porn to our soldiers, as happens in every combat theater, save Saudi Arabia.

My wife has given more than one Article 15 (non-judicial punishment) for soldiers in her company being drunk on duty, from hard liquor bought outside the gates.

I for one, wouldn't be really concerned over us respecting local customs, when the Iraqi's themselves are playing such a role. And I certainly don't use that reason to explain away the bombings.

Should Americans show a little more respect for local customs?
That's already been addressed in the thread. Its a non-issue.

Does the Green Zone offer a false sense of safety?
Yes, very much so. At least, when I left last December, complacency still ruled behind the Texas barriers. Those concrete walls, watchtowers, and multiple checkpoints give a good surface impression of the place being "heavily fortified" - but in reality the place is a sieve. Not only do thousands of local nationals go in and out every day, but there is a large number that actually live within the Green Zone.

For a long time, the fact that they did not carry out such acts within the Green Zone was an indicator that the bad guys did not want to compromise the wonderful access they had for intel collection. The occasional long-range indirect fire attack, with mortars or rockets, did not really make life more difficult for local nationals inside the walls. That these type of direct attacks are now occuring inside the walls shows a growing confidence on the part of the bad guys (they've always had the ability), and a new willingness to discard potential opportunities for collection. In other words, they see the gain to be had from carrying out direct attacks in the Green Zone outweigh the continuing intel benefits to be had from their multiplicity of sources.

Are we doing enough to find and stop this animal, Zarqawi?
Sheesh. I hope you realize that this SOB and his ilk are very high priority targets - that we have SOF and OGA actively hunting him. But it just ain't that simple. Our main problem in tracking these guys is still intel - our tactical HUMINT is weak, even on the dark side. This cripples our efforts. Our guys are doing everything they can - and he will eventually be taken down, you can be sure of that.

But, its even worse in the Big Army. In many conventional units a rapid growth in numbers of collectors has not - and will not - translate into effective intel support to operations. We have far too few experienced personnel with the necessary skills - and the rotation system works against us. It is a credit to our troops and small unit leaders that we have accomplished, and continue to accomplish, as much as we have against the bad guys.