Full Version: Increasing Cost of Higher Education
There is an interesting article in that liberal rag, otherwise know as the NY Times today concerning the cost of education.
Based on the data it provides, it would be very easy for me to make a case that much of this is Bush's fault but I don't want to go in that direction because this is bigger than the election.
I'm sure all of us have heard horror stories from financial planners and from politicians that college for the kids 20 years down the line is going to be in six figure territory - based on the trends I'm inclined to believe them. I'm also sure that many of you, like myself, have 10's of thousands of dollars in debt from school.
Note: In this debate I'd like to focus on what the problems are and possible solutions to them. It would be very easy to make this debate political, but that defeats the point of having it because as soon as that happens, no real discussion is possible. Clearly all of us are shaped by our political ideology here, but let's not make this into a Bush v. Kerry thing
Questions for debate:
1. Do you believe that increasing tutition costs are a problem, and a danger to higher education access? Is there a point where the cost of higher education no longer becomes worth the salary gained? Why or why not?
2. The article cited is suggestive of some of the causes for increased tuition, but not specific. In your opinion, what are the causes of tuition increases?
3. Based on your answer to question 2, what would you say are some possible solutions we should explore to fix the problem?
Based on the data it provides, it would be very easy for me to make a case that much of this is Bush's fault but I don't want to go in that direction because this is bigger than the election.
QUOTE
Tuition at the nation's public universities rose an average of 10.5 percent this year, the second-largest increase in more than a decade, according to the annual survey released today by the College Board. Last year's rise, 13 percent, was the highest.
Private universities and community colleges also increased tuition — by 6 percent and 9 percent respectively, in a year when inflation has been hovering at about 2.5 percent. The tuition increases at private and community colleges were also among the steepest in a decade.
It is the first time that the average tuition at the nation's postsecondary institutions has surpassed $20,000 for a private college, $5,000 for a public university and $2,000 for a community college.
Private universities and community colleges also increased tuition — by 6 percent and 9 percent respectively, in a year when inflation has been hovering at about 2.5 percent. The tuition increases at private and community colleges were also among the steepest in a decade.
It is the first time that the average tuition at the nation's postsecondary institutions has surpassed $20,000 for a private college, $5,000 for a public university and $2,000 for a community college.
I'm sure all of us have heard horror stories from financial planners and from politicians that college for the kids 20 years down the line is going to be in six figure territory - based on the trends I'm inclined to believe them. I'm also sure that many of you, like myself, have 10's of thousands of dollars in debt from school.
Note: In this debate I'd like to focus on what the problems are and possible solutions to them. It would be very easy to make this debate political, but that defeats the point of having it because as soon as that happens, no real discussion is possible. Clearly all of us are shaped by our political ideology here, but let's not make this into a Bush v. Kerry thing
Questions for debate:
1. Do you believe that increasing tutition costs are a problem, and a danger to higher education access? Is there a point where the cost of higher education no longer becomes worth the salary gained? Why or why not?
2. The article cited is suggestive of some of the causes for increased tuition, but not specific. In your opinion, what are the causes of tuition increases?
3. Based on your answer to question 2, what would you say are some possible solutions we should explore to fix the problem?
QUOTE(Cube Jockey)
There is an interesting article in that liberal rag, otherwise know as the NY Times today concerning the cost of education.
Based on the data it provides, it would be very easy for me to make a case that much of this is Bush's fault but I don't want to go in that direction because this is bigger than the election.
Based on the data it provides, it would be very easy for me to make a case that much of this is Bush's fault but I don't want to go in that direction because this is bigger than the election.
At least this time you and the NY Times agree on the category of the article cited. This one appears in their "education" section as opposed to the "health" article that in fact appeared in their political section.
Be that as it may, one thing this article doesn't address is the real reason for increased tuition costs. They talk about shifts in funding sources, but I have to ask where is the money really going? Is it going to salaries for professors?
Not really, according to The Bureau of Labor Statistics, salaries don't seem terribly out of line. From their report.....QUOTE
Earnings for college faculty vary according to rank and type of institution, geographic area, and field. According to a 2002-03 survey by the American Association of University Professors, salaries for full-time faculty averaged $64,455. By rank, the average was $86,437 for professors, $61,732 for associate professors, $51,545 for assistant professors, $37,737 for instructors, and $43,914 for lecturers. Faculty in 4-year institutions earn higher salaries, on average, than do those in 2-year schools. In 2002-03, average faculty salaries in public institutions—$63,974—were lower than those in private independent institutions—$74,359—but higher than those in religiously affiliated private colleges and universities—$57,564. In fields with high-paying nonacademic alternatives—medicine, law, engineering, and business, among others—earnings exceed these averages. In others—such as the humanities and education—they are lower.
Many faculty members have significant earnings, in addition to their base salary, from consulting, teaching additional courses, research, writing for publication, or other employment. In addition, many college and university faculty enjoy some unique benefits, including access to campus facilities, tuition waivers for dependents, housing and travel allowances, and paid sabbatical leaves. Part-time faculty usually have fewer benefits than do full-time faculty.
Many faculty members have significant earnings, in addition to their base salary, from consulting, teaching additional courses, research, writing for publication, or other employment. In addition, many college and university faculty enjoy some unique benefits, including access to campus facilities, tuition waivers for dependents, housing and travel allowances, and paid sabbatical leaves. Part-time faculty usually have fewer benefits than do full-time faculty.
Not through the roof, but not a bad gig for (according to Teresa Heinz Kerry) "not a real job". So, where is the money going? Students pay tuition, room and board, student fees and buy their own books. Based on my own college experiences, college students in their first two years at least spend most of their classroom time in lecture halls with a few hundred students for one hour three days a week and an additional hour in class with an assistant professor or TA, and they take 5-6 classes for a full load. Too lazy to do the math right now, but for that level of instruction, $5,000 in tuition alone seems pretty steep to me.
From the article cited (just to prove I read it)......
QUOTE
The survey, of nearly 2,700 colleges and universities, did not attempt to pin down the reasons for the steep increases. But among the many factors cited by its authors and other higher education experts were shrinking endowments, big increases in health insurance costs for campus employees and anemic higher education spending by states.
I wonder why this survey of "higher education experts" didn't attempt to pin down the reasons for the steep increases. It seems to me that would be a pretty important thing to identify. That money has to be going somewhere I'd think...
1. Do you believe that increasing tutition costs are a problem, and a danger to higher education access? Is there a point where the cost of higher education no longer becomes worth the salary gained? Why or why not?
They are a problem to higher education in general. They are offering a product to consumers and if they are pricing themselves out of the market they might look at where the money is going. I would agree that it is in the public interest to maintain the level of higher education in this country through such things as Pell Grants and Community Colleges, but in return I expect a full accounting of where the money is being spent.
2. The article cited is suggestive of some of the causes for increased tuition, but not specific. In your opinion, what are the causes of tuition increases?
That's the problem. I don't think "increased health care costs for campus employees" is the entire reason.
3. Based on your answer to question 2, what would you say are some possible solutions we should explore to fix the problem?
Follow the money. Start treating public universities like a business and find out what they are spending their money on. If they want taxpayer's money, they owe the taxpayer a complete explanation of how they're spending it.
I attend UAA in the nursing degree program, and my wife attends Charter College on a business degree program- in other words, she goes to a private school, I go to a public school LOL 
I can tell you, I make good money, with 2 businesses and a good job- along with my wife- but the hit at tuition time is huge. In order to not incur debt I pay out of pocket. My wife's degree will cost me 22K, because she only has to go about a year and a half, due to her Russian education. I have to go a full three years, at about the same price. That is 44K out of my pocket in less than 3 years time!
I can't see where the money goes- we do have the incredible shrinking budget issue- which is debatable on it's face- I mean, the budget actually increased numerically, but between inflation and higher enrollment numbers, they needed more money. Plus infrastructure building has GOT to figure in there somewhere- construction costs are through the roof nationwide from what I understand, and with larger enrollment, comes the need for more room!
I think we are reaching the threshold of what a normal person could afford to pay back in school loans, I think this is one area that the goverment is going to have to step in and shell out some dough, simply because, at some point, the middle class will not be able to afford to go to school, even with guarunteed loans, because they can not afford to pay them back after they are finished!
I can tell you, I make good money, with 2 businesses and a good job- along with my wife- but the hit at tuition time is huge. In order to not incur debt I pay out of pocket. My wife's degree will cost me 22K, because she only has to go about a year and a half, due to her Russian education. I have to go a full three years, at about the same price. That is 44K out of my pocket in less than 3 years time!
I can't see where the money goes- we do have the incredible shrinking budget issue- which is debatable on it's face- I mean, the budget actually increased numerically, but between inflation and higher enrollment numbers, they needed more money. Plus infrastructure building has GOT to figure in there somewhere- construction costs are through the roof nationwide from what I understand, and with larger enrollment, comes the need for more room!
I think we are reaching the threshold of what a normal person could afford to pay back in school loans, I think this is one area that the goverment is going to have to step in and shell out some dough, simply because, at some point, the middle class will not be able to afford to go to school, even with guarunteed loans, because they can not afford to pay them back after they are finished!
1. Do you believe that increasing tutition costs are a problem, and a danger to higher education access? Is there a point where the cost of higher education no longer becomes worth the salary gained? Why or why not?
2. The article cited is suggestive of some of the causes for increased tuition, but not specific. In your opinion, what are the causes of tuition increases?
3. Based on your answer to question 2, what would you say are some possible solutions we should explore to fix the problem?
1. Certainly if costs keep increasing and the salaries keep decreasing, then the initial cost becomes prohibitive from the start. Why pay out the big bucks just so you can earn only a tiny bit more than High School grads? If the business world wants trained employees at low pay, they should consider providing the training themselves.
2. Waste, and corruption. And it exists everywhere. The school district in my area won't hire one or two competent IT personnel, which would be enough. Instead they hire a bunch of dummies who can't even do basic software fixes, or even minor repair. My wife has brought home school lap tops for me to fix. She gets to do a lot of software fixes herself, since she isn't too happy about having to wait 3 or 4 days to have one of those idiots say it can't be fixed.
They like to hire friends and relatives and allow them to draw a salary for little work. One new hire was put in a new school where his specialty wasn't even taught. He sat around a lot. The next year they found a job for him that he was not qualified to do, so the students run that class. And instead of firing lazy teachers, they move them into administration at the district office.
Purchasers for the schools don't look for a good deal at a good price, they allow some salesman to wine and dine them into paying too much for a poor product. I stopped one of those myself. It wasn't exactly school money, the PTSO donated funds for a portable sound system, and some guy was ready to charge them over $3,000 for about $1200 worth of common consumer stuff. My wife told the principal that the deal sounded hinky and got me involved. For the same $3000 and using a friend as a contact, I got them a great commercial grade system at serious discount. My fee, nothing. Good citizens don't rip off their children's schools.
All those kinds of thing go on in public schools, whether elementary, middle, high, or college/university.
3. Parental involvement in the expenditure of funds. Don't let the schools have a free rein with the funds. A volunteer oversite committee should be doing periodic audits of how funds are spent.
2. The article cited is suggestive of some of the causes for increased tuition, but not specific. In your opinion, what are the causes of tuition increases?
3. Based on your answer to question 2, what would you say are some possible solutions we should explore to fix the problem?
1. Certainly if costs keep increasing and the salaries keep decreasing, then the initial cost becomes prohibitive from the start. Why pay out the big bucks just so you can earn only a tiny bit more than High School grads? If the business world wants trained employees at low pay, they should consider providing the training themselves.
2. Waste, and corruption. And it exists everywhere. The school district in my area won't hire one or two competent IT personnel, which would be enough. Instead they hire a bunch of dummies who can't even do basic software fixes, or even minor repair. My wife has brought home school lap tops for me to fix. She gets to do a lot of software fixes herself, since she isn't too happy about having to wait 3 or 4 days to have one of those idiots say it can't be fixed.
They like to hire friends and relatives and allow them to draw a salary for little work. One new hire was put in a new school where his specialty wasn't even taught. He sat around a lot. The next year they found a job for him that he was not qualified to do, so the students run that class. And instead of firing lazy teachers, they move them into administration at the district office.
Purchasers for the schools don't look for a good deal at a good price, they allow some salesman to wine and dine them into paying too much for a poor product. I stopped one of those myself. It wasn't exactly school money, the PTSO donated funds for a portable sound system, and some guy was ready to charge them over $3,000 for about $1200 worth of common consumer stuff. My wife told the principal that the deal sounded hinky and got me involved. For the same $3000 and using a friend as a contact, I got them a great commercial grade system at serious discount. My fee, nothing. Good citizens don't rip off their children's schools.
All those kinds of thing go on in public schools, whether elementary, middle, high, or college/university.
3. Parental involvement in the expenditure of funds. Don't let the schools have a free rein with the funds. A volunteer oversite committee should be doing periodic audits of how funds are spent.
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