This may not be the best place to post this topic, the moderators can move it if they feel it's needed.


I disagree with the way most people raise their children as I'm sure most people do. I also understand that as a parent most think that you get to mold the human you produce, but I disagree. Certain things should be left up to the child. I will never tell my children that there is a Santa or any other fictional character. I know it's all in fun but how can you knowing lie to your children.

If later in life they decide to follow god it's there choice but a child can't fully understand religion anyway.

Could you narrow this down a little? Do you want it to be a debate regarding child rearing in general or do you want it to focus on religion in relation to child-rearing?

I agree I must be the worst poster when it comes to broad topics.

I guess seeing how it's an extremely broad topic I would like it to center around religion and dabble into santa.

It is impossible to be a parent without passing on your own values, ethics, and standards on how to approach the world.

I do think it is unfortunate when a religion is taught to children so they think the religion is a fact and everyone thinks this way, except bad people. I also do not tell my kids Santa is real. I do not go out of my way to tell them otherwise but to mislead them is improper, which is what I believe you are basically saying.

It is important to teach values, ethics, and standards ( it is a great thing about being a parent !) but do not purposely teach them things are factual when they are not.

ITA with Seal.

We don't do Santa and we have no "right" unless it really is, factually (not spiritually) right. No religion or myth cramming here.

This argument assumes the parents in question believe their religion is false. This is not usually true.

I'm not too sure what the topic here is, but if it's about teaching Santaism to your kids, I'm against that also.

No. That argument takes for fact that religion is faith which is a leap and a jump away from fact. No matter how much anyone believes in any relgion, it is still faith which is a big part of what makes religion special.

Close, but not quite. Faith is belief which does not rest on logic or material evidence. That is different from being in opposition to fact(false). Gray Seal suggested parents shouldn't teach things which are not fact(falsehoods), these are different from matters of faith. If parents judge things to be false, then it stands to reason they have no faith in them. Matters of faith are by definition believed to be true and parents that believe the objects of their faith is true run into no moral dilemma concerning teaching that to children.

Ethics are one thing, you don't run your life based on if you return the extra 5 bucks the cashier gave you. Religion, especially when installed by parents can be a hard thing for a person to look away from. I just feel that children do need to be given options and faith is one thing but it's just that faith, it's not fact and there's no arguing that. So it still remains that you aren't speaking fact to your children. I believe in evolution but I'm not going to tell my kids that it's true, because it hasn't been proven.

just to repeat it, children need options...ofcourse they don't need the option of to kill you or not, but when it isn't a legal decision they need to know everything that there is.


I'm glad to see so many people opposed to santaism as it was referred to earlier.

I think one of the main problems with parents instilling a particular religious belief in their children is that so few of them have ever given it much thought themselves. I've never seen statistics (and if anyone knows where to find them, let me know), but I doubt there are many people anywhere who actually chose what religion they practice. I'd guess that a good 90% (if not far more) just inherited whatever religion their parents were - along with all the "one true faith" prejudices that go along with it.

Worse, I've encountered very few adults who have done much critical thinking about their religion since their confirmation (if then). Consequently, they have, at best, a Sunday School level of comprehension of their beliefs and most cannot even tell you what the chief dogma of their denominations are - never mind distinguish between their faith and anyone else's.

Indoctrinating an innocent child into a faith about which one is almost completely ignorant oneself, to me, constitutes a form of abuse. Ethics, fine; a moral sense, sure; codes of behavior, knock yourselves out. But a complex system of religious beliefs? Not unless, for example, you can tell me the difference between transubstantiation and consubstantiation.



And, btw, don't we have a Santaism thread somewhere else??

One of my values is the importance of critical thinking. It is important to know the difference between facts and beliefs. I hope they will be able to differentiate the two. Wanting something to be true is very powerful. I hope they develop the skill to recognize within themselves when something is and when something is not, no matter how much they wish it to be. Is this something you can teach or is it innate? Does telling them Santa Claus is real hinder the ability to learn this skill?

* shrug *

The universe is such a fascinating place. Basing your life on beliefs rather than "what is" seems a bit less satisfactory and limits ones potential. That is a ethical standard I have. I do expose my children to this. People who base their ethics on religion, spirituality, or secular thinking all seem to have the chance to live full, satisfying lives. People who are based in secular thinking are better problem solvers ( think Vulcan ). However, the spirituality aspects of humans seems to bring in other dimensions which make better decisions. Problem solvers who base their thinking on beliefs are the poorest critical thinkers. They can let their belief get in the way of seeing fact.

Most of the human population is religious based in their ethics. It certainly has been an important element of the success of mankind.

What path my children will follow, I know not. I will love them all. I hope they all have full, satisfying lives. I hope some or all of them will be good critical thinkers.

To expect people not to teach their children the tenets of their religion is absurd. No loving parent, who believes his religion is the one true path, would not indoctrinate their child in that religion.

Hugo, don't get used to it, but I absolutely agree with you on this. I think that arguing over faith v. fact is beside the point. As a parent you can't help but impart your beliefs to your child, particularly in an area like religion. Whether or not religion has any meaning, it goes without saying that someone who feels strongly about it will without a doubt raise their child in the same mold.

One thing that does scare me, as an aside, is parents who teach their kids from such a young age to be so exclusionary about their religion. My 9 year old daughter was told be a friend at school that she was going to go to hell because she didn't believe in God. I think that it's sad to teach young children to be so judgemental and exclusionary.

I agree entirely. The problem, as I see it, is that far too many loving parents are totally clueless about "the one true path" that they've inherited from loving parents who were totally clueless about "the one true path" that they've inherited... and so on.

I don't expect better, but it still saddens me to see so much ignorance handed down from generation to generation to generation.

I believe in love. I "indoctrinated" my kids into that faith by leading a loving life. Can you imagine what a vastly different world this would be if all Christian parents passed their faith on to their children by leading Christian lives? Instead, all too often, blind faith - deaf, dumb, and blind faith - is browbeaten into kids for no better reason than that it was brow-beaten into their parents. And the number of people who actually practice what is preached at them is miniscule. If I had seen more than, say, 2% of the members of the Protestant Church in which I was reared actually leading lives based on the teachings of Christ, I might never have questioned that faith.

While I am agnostic myself I was raised in a household where my parents were nominal Christians. they probably went to church a half dozen times a year. My wife is Roman Catholic and attends mass weekly and I usually go with her. A couple ladies come by once a month or so and leave a couple free magazines. By and large, except on the internet, I have somehow in my 44 years not met these fanatical Christians that annoy so many others.

I know a FEW people who do run their lives based on whether they have knowingly excepted that extra $5. They believe that they MUST do unto others as they would do unto themselves because they believe that everyone else IS an extension of themselves.

Sometimes a faith is built on fact. Such as that supposedly invisible world... which isn't invisible to everyone.