First off, bare with me, eventually you will see where this ties in with poverty and stuff!

Ok, last night me and some friends went to a campus ministry thing called CrossWalk. We then went to Wal-Mart to get some food and stuff, then we were driving to a friends house to hang out and watch the Game Show Network (we are addicted to playing Lingo online while its on air). So we leave the Wal-Mart parking lot at like 9pm, we are driving to the friends house, and we have to go up a hill to get there. So we start up the hill, then the clutch slips or something like that and we are stuck. We all get out to help push the car but it does not work. We can't back down the hill cause it backs into a busy street. So since I have AAA we call for a tow truck. we called the national number that is on the back of my card, they connect us with the Ohio office, and the Ohio office connects us with the Athens branch. They tell us that they will send a tow truck to us and it will be there by 11. So we waited on the hill till 11pm. No Tow truck ever showed up. So we called the National office to get the Ohio branch to get the Athens one. They then tell us the only Tow Truck driver AAA certified is like 90 minutes away in Zanesville. He will be there by 1:30am. (I have a 8am class). So we wait and wait and finally it comes. It tows us to the friends house, we missed Lingo, and now we just drive straight to campus and I get in my room at 3am. I then wake up this morning at 7:30 to get ready for my 8am class (Philosophy) and I leave for it. I get to the class room (after a 20 minute walk in the ball freezing SE Ohio wind), and the sign says the class is cancelled. Here is where I make my point. Last night sucked (no that is not the point). I was miserable, cold, hungry, and mad at AAA, the tow truck people, you name it and i could find a way to be mad at it. I though my life was a living hell. At the same time though, 1 million girls under the age of 15 in India were working as prostitutes to put bread on their families table, 3 million children around the world were waking up to their last day cause today they would starve to death, millions others were sleeping in houses made from pallets. Even though we cannot solve all those problems as individuals, I realized after last night and reading some verses this morning that who are we as upper/middle class people to complain in America? To us an injustice is to be cut in front of in the grocery line, or to have to pay for a doctors visit cause our insurance does not cover it. To millions of people visiting a doctor is a once in a lifetime thing, and even then they can't afford medicine unless some humanitarian group helps out. I was in the cold for 5 hours max, i was hungry for a few hours max, I can't imagine waking up everyday cold and hungry. I think God used this experince to show me how insignificant my problems really are compared to the problems in the world. Me being cold is nothing compared to the millions who die because they lack the basic things to sustain life. I just wanted to share this with anyone who decided to read this whole thing.

I read it Brian. It's good to be reminded of how well off we (some of us) really are in this country. Thanks

Madtown

Good perspective post.

I agree with the above, but...

I don't find the fortune (or lack thereof) of others a good reason to maximize or minimize the troubles in our own lives. While it is handy now and again to take a step back and realize how great we have it, that shouldn't mean we can't get peeved at the very late AAA truck.

If that were the case, we should all mope around on occasion because compared to Donald Trump, we're all paupers. This isn't acceptable either.

A reality check is nice on occasion, but I try not to make a habit of comparing apples and oranges.

Thank you for reminding us that there is no poverty in America. No need for welfare programs.

sure there is some poverty and need, I don't want to sound like I am saying all of America is wealthy. But the people we think of as poor usually have a TV, or a car, or even a house. Imagine having none of those.

Right! I suppose that all those people in tents under the bridges in L.A. were just camping! Oh and those silly guys sleeping on the city streets were just doing it on a dare from some colleagues at "the club!"

Um, I think the post did mention that it was from an upper/middle class perspective...

BTW, good post dude. It's true we can be pretty caught up in our own petty troubles and have a hard time seeing what it's like for those who have little, or nothing, every day they wake up.

What those tent people need to do is acquire a skill so they can become employed and paid their worth so they can move into better lodgings.

It may be somewhat difficult though, since they have no home, no money, no decent clothing, and could very well be ill.

I wonder why some posters on this board keep harping on welfare. I believe Pres. Clinton signed a welfare reform bill.

Madtown

If some people choose to forsake work and homes and choose leisure and homelessness that is their choice.

[quote=hugo,Jan 9 2003, 01:34 AM]

[/QUOTE]
If some people choose to forsake work and homes and choose leisure and homelessness that is their choice.[/quote]
Some people do. Others have severe mental health problems, still others are poor, cold, and in need of help to get back on their feet again. Let's not belittle the suffering that is in America just because their are some 9 year-old leper prostitutes that haven't ever had a warm meal in their lives in other countries.

Brian, there are people in this country who do not have a home, or a tv, or a car. The schools here have counselors especially for homeless children. Can you believe that?

Madtown

i know there are some exceptions to those things, thats why I said usually. The number of extremly poor in this country is much lower then most other countries.

I have a few suggestions for homeless people. If they are cold, they should move to Miami, I understand it is pretty warm all year around, so the cold wouldn't be a factor. Also you wouldn't have to carry so many clothes around. I see that some homeless people have money for alcohol and drugs, wouldn't that money be better spent on hygiene products or on public transportation to a possible job interview.

Abolish HUD and building codes and there would be more affordable housing.

Yep. But the idea is relief from pain.

You have never been even close to the ditch. I know your type and am watching!

Are you watching me right now AuthorMusician? THis pain you refer to, is is the pain that millions of other people feel each day, but choose not to drink or use drugs. I have not one drop of empathy, sympathy for anyone who uses drugs or lets alcohol take over there life. You are an enabler, I am a preventer. Instead of making excuses and whiny little threats to me, take your hate and channel it towards helping homeless people get off drugs if you are so "in touch" with them and their pain.

HeatherRob - did you not see AM's smilie? He was trying to joke around with you...guess not

HeatherRob, have you considered the idea that sometimes alcohol and drug abuse are the product of genetics which cause a predispostion to addiction? Have you also considered the fact that many of these people suffer from other mental disorders that the average population can't fathom? Alcohol and drugs, at times, can be a form of self-medication for these people. One does not have to be an enabler in order to feel compassion.

We currently have a thread going, How to help the homeless, which addresses many of these points in further detail. You're welcome to join me there to discuss this further, as this thread is getting a bit off topic.

I am adamantly against the idea that alcoholism, or drug use is a disease. Lawyers have fought for that so that they can bilk insurance companies for money, at the expense of actual diseases. The tendency to gravitate towards drug use and alcohol abuse shows a mental weakness, a feeble will power. My dad drank to excess, so did my paternal grandfather. Yet I have no problem. CHoices. It is all about choices.

I doubt that many homeless people will be browsing to this debate, HR, to benefit from your wisdom. Perhaps you should speak to them in person - maybe you'd actually learn something. I have a few other suggestions for you but, having re-read the Rules and Guidelines, I'd better keep them to myself.


Goes without saying, HR.


In what way is AuthorMusician an enabler, HR? Just by knowing more about alcoholism and addiction than you do? And in what conceivable way are you "a preventer"? Are you helping homeless people get off drugs? I am - and have been off and on for more than ten years. So forgive me if my whining is less easy for you to dismiss: You have never been even close to the ditch; I, too, know your type - though at this stage, I'd sooner avert my eyes than watch.


You may also oppose the right of epilepsy to be considered a disease - or asthma - or the common cold. Fortunately, you are not in a position to make such hare-brained judgements regarding the facts of addiction.


The first people to consider addiction a disease (in 1940) were those who were trying hardest to help addicts - themselves. For what it's worth, the World Health Organization acknowledged alcoholism as a serious medical problem in 1951, and the American Medical Association declared alcoholism as a treatable illness in 1956; the American Psychiatric Association began to use the term disease to describe alcoholism in 1965, and the American Medical Association followed in 1966. This has nothing to do with insurance companies, HR, just science - and basic humanity. Actually, doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals are not the only ones to call a spade a spade: sociologists, psychologists, neurologists, psychiatrists, law enforcement officers, prosecuters, judges, religious workers, and compassionate family members also consider addiction to be a disease. Some people, HR, actually care.


I do not comment.

This reply is directed to Wertz. It is not my business or job to help people get off drugs. If drug users are too weak to avoid the temptation, then they deserve the misery that goes with drug use. As for you being clean for 10 years great. That doesn't make you some great expert in my opinion, you are just back to where you should be in the first place. A great number of people don't believe alcoholism or drug addiction is a disease, with good reason, they have common sense. Why are you talking about epilepsy, when you are born with that, or can develop it after blunt force trauma. You don't catch alcoholism, you aren't born with it. It is a choice, that is the fact, and no one chooses a disease.

Oh, Smug, Smug SMUG!!

Wertz didn't say he was off drugs for ten years....he said;

" Are you helping homeless people get off drugs? I am - and have been off and on for more than ten years."

Too bad you can't read and comprehend.....could it be a mental weakness?

Madtown

And if you have the ability to read I said it is not my job or desire to help people get off drugs. So what if Wertz wants to toot his own horn. In my opinion it is better to help children get ahead in life, to feed the hungry ones and educate them. I don't feel the need to trumpet whatever charity work I do. From reading your posts I guarantee I comprehend better than you do anyway

You said:. As for you being clean for 10 years great. That doesn't make you some great expert in my opinion, you are just back to where you should be in the first place.

Why would you say that when Wertz never said he was ever on drugs in the first place? See, anyone can make a mistake.

Madtown

Great post! Yes, we have things easy here. I suggest to everyone to spend some time living in a foreign country if you have the opportunity. It will make you forever appreciate what you have here.

I lived in Korea for a year, which is a fairly developed country compared to many. My house was about 500 square feet total. The water heater was the size of a lunchbox, and wouldn't heat enough to fill much more than a sink full of water. The water pressure was so bad the shower head wouldn't run if you held it over your head and stood up. The 'solution' was to squat in the tub and let the cold water gently spit on you. If someone in the kitchen forgot that you were in the tub and turned on the water, watch out...you'd get frozen instantly.

The winters were especially brutal. I ran the heat the whole time, but if you left a glass of water on the counter it would turn to ice by morning. The windows were not sealed, and slid open so there was enough of a gap that your papers often blew off the table with the window closed. The solution to this was to ductape plastic to the outside of every window. This was standard winter preparation there.

Anyway, I could go on and on. Suffice it to say that, after 6 years, I am still grateful every time I take a shower to be back in the USA!

HeatherRob,



Actually, there is some evidence that substance abuse is genetic. I read about it way back in the 1970s, and with the Human Genome project going on, and all the research into genetics, this may eventually be confirmed.

I'll give one link, but you have a browser. Go to google and search "genetics alcoholism."

Genetics Alcoholism

Your logic also falls apart if you consider heart disease and other diseases that can be linked to dietary habits. I can point to black lung disease and other occupational hazards that one can consider as coming from choice.

People do choose diseases, and your fact is all balled up However, we are all free to engage in denial