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Vampiel
Ive been thinking about this alot lately because it was brought to my attention that millions of unskilled laborer's coming into the country drive wage's down. While im not against mass immigration for those who seek the legal path, it is a good point.

What is your opinion on allowing whomever would like to come into the country to be allowed to? If so what fit's the criteria for their entry if any?
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Argonaut
QUOTE
What is your opinion on allowing whomever would like to come into the country to be allowed to? If so what fit's the criteria for their entry if any?


Good question. I have wrestled with this question many times and over time my position has "evolved", and is still not completely set in stone. hmmm.gif

First of all, I am assuming that when referring to "whomever would like to come into the country", you of course mean any otherwise law-abiding (does not kill/does not steal) persons who are free of highly communicable diseases (public health/safety concerns). That being the case, my initial "pure" libertarian position would be:

"Yes, of course! Any "free" human being should be able to move around the planet he/she was born on and "pursue happiness"! The right to voluntarily contract with other "free" humans by peacefully seeking out, negotiating, and accepting employment, housing, food, and any other goods and services (in exchange for goods and services or even out of private charity) is no one's business but the two parties in question and should not be subject to the juxtaposition of one's time and place of birth vs. either parties current lattitude/longitude on Earth."

And whether or not "millions of unskilled laborer's coming into the country drive(s) wage's down" would not change that fundamental principle and merely acknowledges the reality of economics, competition, and human "freedom".

On the other hand, it becomes hard to ignore the fact that we (unfortunately) do not live in a free (much less libertarian) world (or country for that matter) and while more "free" than most other countries (thankfully so) we currently have a semi-welfare state where the earnings of some are confiscated by threat of force and "redistributed" to those who do not earn.

The question now becomes one of "utility" vs. "principle". While ignoring any fractional difference in percentage of immigrants vs. native born on the welfare wagon as opposed to the majority of both groups who push said wagon, should we continue to allow any immigration (knowing that a certain number of them will add to the burden of the welfare state?)

innocent.gif devil.gif At this point, the ghostly remnants of attempts by my high school and college professors at brainwashing (persuading) me of the value relying on "utilitarian" arguments begin whispering in my ear and I hear myself wondering (against the more "pure" libertarian spirits) that perhaps we should forge some sort of compromise along the lines of:

"Until such time as the U.S. abolishes the welfare state and establishes a completely free-market libertarian society, no further immigration into this country shall be allowed...Furthermore, only immigrants from countries that have likewise abolished their welfare states and established similar free-market libertarian societies shall be allowed to enter..."

That just doesn't taste quite right to me either. sour.gif

This is one of those "tough questions for libertarians" (like the death penalty, abortion, and "can I BBQ my cat?") that will stump us for a while I think.

However, I feel confident that the "drives down wages" argument is much easier to dismiss as antithetical to libertarianism. If Tom is willing to do a job for Richard, for less money than Harry is asking for, than that is the business of Tom and Richard (Harry of course being free to lower his bid). thumbsup.gif
timmy84
QUOTE(Vampiel @ Nov 8 2004, 09:04 PM)
Ive been thinking about this alot lately because it was brought to my attention that millions of unskilled laborer's coming into the country drive wage's down.  While im not against mass immigration for those who seek the legal path, it is a good point.

What is your opinion on allowing whomever would like to come into the country to be allowed to?  If so what fit's the criteria for their entry if any?
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I'm okay with having people come here if they just want to work. I know someone who isn't even legal yet in this country and they just bought a house because they are good at what they do (big day for him, since he couldn't own a home in his own country). Good for him.

And as for lowering wage, I find that interasting. Is it a lower wage for jobs that require no skills? I would have to point out that the low paying jobs are low paying because their is always someone out their in need of a job. I have had three jobs in my few years in the workforce, and all of them hire at minimum wage because they have no problems highering new people.

However, immergration is one of the reasons I believe we should have a minimum wage.

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