Thanks, C.J., I was looking for a way to introduce this question…

Imagine hearing a minister speak once, and 30 years later rushing to see what else he has to say... Last night, I was reading this at a web site I had been referred to, by a magazine article Paladin Elspeth had left open for me in the bathroom. I had spoken to her of Ric Masten on the day we met in 1987, I had heard him perform once in the early 1970’s…


It was past midnight when I went to the 7 -11 this morning for a quart of milk, and found a note on the door that they were closed due to the death of the third shift employee. I am a night owl. The midnight shift workers usually have a few minutes to chat, and I come to view them as friends…

At my father’s funeral, I related the story of how I finally came to tell him, “I love you.” Later, five brothers and sisters thanked me for telling him. Mother had created an environment where such words were never spoken. He heard it once, so far as I know, from six grown children. He died a week later.

I knew a married couple years ago. I used to describe them this way.


My first wife had a personality such that she would have enjoyed teaching a puppy not to wag its tail. “I love you.” was a phrase which always drew an angry response from her.

I know that I do not tell my wife and daughter how I feel about them anywhere near as often as I should. (Yes, Paladin Elspeth, I do love you more than apple pie, and bread fresh from the oven. Shego, I love you too.)

There was an old man who worked the midnight shift at the 7 – 11 who used to set aside a Detroit Free Press for me on a regular basis, and share his absolute joy at having a job in retail that allowed him time to interact with the customers, at knowing when someone would be in for a fresh cup of coffee, etc. He was living with his brother, nursing him, caring for him, and the night shift gave him a change to be away from the responsibilities while his brother slept. I considered him a friend, although I likely never told him. His brother died, and he quit the job without notice.

His replacement was an older woman who didn’t care for the shift, but felt, “I’m the low seniority employee with enough training…” She had worked on training the people who delivered the newspapers to count out the holds and leave them on the counter. I considered her a friend, although I likely never said that in so many words. She was killed in a head-on collision on her way to work last night…

The topic for discussion:

There are people like store clerks who lubricate the fabric of our lives. If we shop at the same stores frequently, we may even begin to know them, and know something of their lives.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?

Do we mention to casual acquaintances that we have begun to consider them as casual friends?

When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”

I'm generally kind to people I encounter on a day-to-day basis, and hold doors open and thank yous and all that jazz. But honestly, sometimes it depends on my mood - which can be very, uh... ugly at times. I know it's seeped through to my responses on AD and sometimes I read the things I've written and wondered if I really needed to be that sarcastic or vicious. It's from a combination of a bunch of different things - mostly my dismay over the road America has taken and will continue to take, and my abrupt ceasing of taking my six medications. I guess I would like to take this opportunity to say I'm sorry to people I have been unnecessarily rude to on AD within the past few weeks, maybe months. It's really nothing personal and I don't think you've taken it that way, I just have a host of personal issues that I'm battling right now.



Can't answer that question, I've effectively cut myself off from relationships It gets kind of lonely, but at least I won't hurt others and they won't hurt me. Theoretically at least. But when I had friends, I think it showed in my actions when I considered them to be special to me - most noticably, in the anger and hurt I felt towards them after they all abandoned me, lol. I've had a problem most of my life with these kinds of uneven relationships - me considering someone to be a lot more important to me than I am to them. Frankly, it sucks. I don't know... if I ever got into the whole "socialization" scene again, and by some miracle ended up close to someone, I would make a point to tell them what they mean to me. I haven't always done this in the past, though I have tried at times.



This is a doozy for me. I tell my little brother I love him, because I do. I show my dog that I love her through my actions. When it comes to my parents, it's a completely different ball game. I remember just two days ago, my mother called me, and she always ends our conversations with "I love you." I usually say something like "okay, bye." Well this time - and I don't know what was going through my head at the time - I told her that I loved her back. After I hung up, the magnitude of what I had done seeped in and I spent the next few hours occasionally beating myself up for it. I appreciate all the things my parents have done for me, but it's far too late for me to accept their love. I'm sure my mother loves me, in her own twisted, limited capability, but I refuse to feel it. Both of my parents have done things to me that I will never, ever forgive them for. I can act like things are okay and on the surface we may appear to have a pretty normal, healthy relationship, but on the inside I have never forgotten, not for a moment. And honestly I think I'm going to hold it against both of them until either I or they die. Sometimes I think about what would happen if they died, and I really don't know if I would regret acting the way I do now or not. Not accepting their expressions of love is purely out of self-preservation, not to be mean or spiteful. Not forgiving them is probably more in that arena.

I am going to take the liberty to respond briefly to that statement on behalf of both myself and Paladin Elspeth.

I have two daughters from my first marriage. I was thrown out of the house in late May of 1987. Since then, I have had one chance to sit with them in church on Christmas Eve of that year; one visit and one phone call from each of them.

Paladin Elspeth has two sons from her first marriage. They were kidnapped by her first husband. We have had a bit more contact from them, but we measure the time between their visits in years.

How often do we wonder about their fates? How often is that unrequited love discussed?

At a minimum, on a daily basis...

The boys both prefer white cars...

There is an electric candle that we keep lit in the window to let them know that they are welcome to visit...

Our daughter asks about her sisters and brothers routinely...

I remember a day when one of my daughters wanted to go fishing. It was 1976. She was five at the time, and I was separated from her mother. I was broke, and living in a one room flat. She sat down on a chair, and re-enacted a fishing trip as well as the most experienced liar. She caught a whopper, had it mounted, and hung it on the wall. When I moved back in with her mother, I wasn't allowed to share the story, so that imaginary fish is still hanging on the wall of an apartment that I couldn't locate if I had to...

I still remember the first time that I held each of my daughter's, and the first day that I met PE's sons...

I would ask you to never doubt that, especially as an adult, your parents want you to know they love you, worry about how they raised you, and think of you on a daily basis... ...at the very least.

As far as I am concerned, Suzy, no apology is necessary. It is easy to say things in the heat of the moment, and many of us are not calm or dispassionate posting about something for which we hold very strong feelings, and for very personal reasons.

You're all right with me!

Some folks are just easier to love and accept from a distance. My dad was one of those people. I was assured of his love for me, but his critical attitude tended to tear me up when I would visit him. He's been dead since 1983. The last time I spoke to him was on the phone the night before his scheduled open heart surgery. He had called me, which was unusual enough. But I got the chance to tell him that I love him, and his death from complications of the surgery, while still agonizing, was mitigated by knowing that he knew I loved him as he was going into it. He'd heard it from me before, but that time it was so much more important for him to hear it (to my mind).

(Regarding my sons, it is interesting that they both ended up marrying women older than they are who were already mothers, especially my eldest son who, in his twenties, became Stepdad to three teenagers!

We are all shaped by our life experiences, and our behavior can tell engaging and revealing stories about us.)

The night clerk at the 7/Eleven was a good acquaintance. We had some interesting conversations. But she was the type of employee who did not start them; she let the customer start talking, which is probably ideal in the eyes of a retail employer.
She had common sense and humor, and she was always helpful. I will miss her.

There are people like store clerks who lubricate the fabric of our lives. If we shop at the same stores frequently, we may even begin to know them, and know something of their lives.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?

It is easy for a job, particularly a service industry job, to be a mask through which people rarely bother trying to glimpse. But you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat people who are in a position of service to them. If I go to a restaurant with someone, and they treat the waitperson like a servant, or in any way as less than an equal, I feel uncomfortable and upset. There is no person below me, from a ditch digger to a fry cook in McDonald's - and there is no person above me, whether a celebrity, a professor, or a politician. In my actions, though, I try and treat everyone I meet as if they were indeed my better. I remember listening to a roshi in a Zen monastery once, he told us to remember that every person on this earth can be our teacher. Everyone has something to teach us. I really take that to heart. It's so important to remember that every person suffers - and every person has a story worth hearing. There are six billion songs on this planet - each one is worth a listen!

Do we mention to casual acquaintances that we have begun to consider them as casual friends?

I'm not sure I understand this question. I suppose I don't say this to people outright, but I treat everyone as a friend until and unless they do something to change that. If I have a casual aquaintance, and I feel I want to know them better, I might invite them over for dinner. But I don't suppose I say in so many words, "from this point on, I consider you a friend, not just an aquaintance."

When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”

Absolutely. I know that I was very lucky growing up. My parents are so kind and loving. I am 35 years old, and I will still hold my dad's hand while walking down the street. I would say that I came out of my childhood extremely well-adjusted. My parents never pressured me about my life choices - and they always supported me. In my worst moments, they might be upset, or disappointed, but they were always there. My best friends today are the same friends I had in junior high. We live spread across the country, and we don't keep in touch too well, but when we get together (about once a year), it's like no time at all has passed.

There are people like store clerks who lubricate the fabric of our lives. If we shop at the same stores frequently, we may even begin to know them, and know something of their lives.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?
I can't speak for everyone obviously but I can speak for myself. San Francisco is a very neighborhood based city meaning that most everything you need is provided by some small business a few blocks from your home and at worst a short trek across the city. You buy your groceries, do your dry cleaning, eat, hit the bars and go to the movies generally within a few blocks of where you live. The other unique thing is that each neighborhood is completely different and someone living a few miles from me in another neighborhood might have a completely different experience with parking, public transit, housing, local businesses, nightlife, as well as the type of people that live there.

I know by name all of the people that I regularly see when I do life's little mundane things - my dry cleaner, the grocery managers and some of the cashiers, some of the restaurant owners, my barber, bartenders, the guys at the bike shop, even the bus drivers on routes I usually take. I try to make it a point to always talk to them when I have the chance even though it is usually just idle chit chat and I always make it a point to say thank you where appropriate. I don't make some great outpouring of thanks but I do say thank you, I do acknowledge them when I see them out of their work environment and I tip very well.

Do we mention to casual acquaintances that we have begun to consider them as casual friends?
I don't know if it has really gotten to that point with anyone I talk with yet, but if I end up staying in the same neighborhood for a few more years I think it very well could end up that way. I certainly couldn't see inviting these folks out for a night on the town, but I could definitely see heading over to the shop partly for business and partly for conversation.

When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”
Always, because you never know what could happen tomorrow. If I were to die tomorrow I would have no regrets because I always try to live my life to the fullest and take every opportunity I can. I can't think of anything I wish I had done, that I never got around to. I live life in an "all in" fashion and that very much includes telling friends and family how much I value you them.

There are people like store clerks who lubricate the fabric of our lives. If we shop at the same stores frequently, we may even begin to know them, and know something of their lives.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?

Like Cube, I frequent the same businesses day in and day out, and I know most of the people who help me by name and vice versa. I thank them each time that I see them, and when time permits, I chat with them as well. I tip well, because I know how hard people have to work for their money, so yes, I would say that I take the time to thank the people who help me, and I'm always polite.

When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”

Yeah, I think I do reasonably well with this. I am shy, but I can also be very expressive around people that I'm comfortable with. It just takes me a little bit of time to get there.

There are people like store clerks who lubricate the fabric of our lives. If we shop at the same stores frequently, we may even begin to know them, and know something of their lives.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?

Yes, definitely. Anyone who has ever worked in the service industry knows it is often a thankless job. My husband and I tip well, and thank cashiers and baggers. We've even tried to make up for people who were jerks in line ahead of us, by cracking a little joke, etc. There have been times though, that I've run into a cashier that seems to be going out of their way to be rude.

When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”

This seems to become more important as I grow older. I try to live each day as though it was my last, and that means I want everyone that I love to know how I feel. Some members of my family have issues with substance abuse, and/or lifestyles which are not accepted by some, so I make sure they get an "I love you" at the end of our conversation. Funny this conversation has come up, my grandparents were in town this past weekend after I had one of the most hectic weeks. All I wanted to do was to kick back at home, but I pushed myself to stay and visit longer, and I am glad I did, because you never know what visit is your last.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?

I say thank you at the cash register but it never really goes beyond that. Sometime's I strike up a conversation with them but it never goes beyond the daily chatter "how's the weather". I do frequent a convienent store and am always nice to them. As far as individuals around me I always thank them when they do something for me directly. Though I rarely show my appreciation through words when they have not done something for me that day, but rather with actions.

I own a small computer business and always thank my customers. Not so much as to the fact that they fund my life but more to the fact that they are all nice people. The first costumer's that I had are still around and I have gotten to know some of them well.

Do we mention to casual acquaintances that we have begun to consider them as casual friends?

I always try to treat everyone as equal because we are all human. I used to be very socially active with a somewhat large inner circle of friends, but was shy during that time period. Since then I have opened up a bit but now it seems I never know anyone long enough to become friends. I do have alot of acquaintances but rarely do we end up friends to the point of when we part that we actively seek each other out. My thoughts on this question are in line with quarkhead.



When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”

Friends yes, family no. The few friends that I keep in contact with it's normally a blast and we always tell each other what we mean to each other.

There is only two family members that I consider a friend but we harly ever talk and one of them moved to the UK (yes she is with all those crazy Brit's and they are in the process of brainwashing her launguage ). I had a big fallout with my parents when I was only 16. Since then I have become a little closer to my mom. She is caring and I dont express my gratitude toward enough perhaps. Mainly due to the fact that she never stood up for me at home. I realize that parent's should always stand together but under certian circumstances if she really cared for me for who I was at the time she would have stood up for me. The rift between my parents and I have somewhat closed and I believe thay now accept me for who I am, years later and over a thousand miles apart. Im an Athiest but respect their religous beleif but unfortunatly they could not accept mine.

There are people like store clerks who lubricate the fabric of our lives. If we shop at the same stores frequently, we may even begin to know them, and know something of their lives.

Do we, as individuals, take enough time to thank them for what they do for us?

I live on the corner of two central streets here in Aarhus, on the top floor of this building. As you can see, there is a kiosk on the ground floor. Since I moved in to this apartment last year, I've gotten to know the name of the owner. He is a Turk and he owns the shop with his three brothers. Every night from about 18:00, he stands behind the counter and serves his customers with a calm easy going nature. When ever he see's me he smiles and greets me by name. Some times we chat as he serves me, but I seldom stay longer than a few moments.
I'd like to get to know him better since he's the only person I know who is not ethnically Danish or English here in Denmark. I'd love to ask him questions about what he thinks about the whole immigration situation here in Denmark, but at the same time I'd rather not, so I don't. Truth is, he's freindly and standing alone in his shop and I'd rather talk to him about all sorts of stuff... I just never know how to talk to him. I'm not out going and I don't make friends easily.


Do we mention to casual acquaintances that we have begun to consider them as casual friends?

I don't. How can you just say it, out loud like that? People would think I was daft.


When it comes to casual acquaintances, or close family for that matter, do you “tell ‘em now while you still can?”

Hmmm.... I think a lot of people love me.. that is to say, a lot of people have a fondness and a regard for me, that is seldom put into words. I know without having to ask or say it, that my brothers love me. Its not like I can say it though, I mean I could, but what would be the point unless it was within the context of a conversation that benefitted from it? Just saying I loved them would be stating the obvious and I can imagine that they'd wonder why I felt the need to say it.

When something has happened though, when there has been a fight or one of them is upset about something, then I can easily tell them how I feel, though sometimes it feels odd to say it. It seems like just saying 'I love you' cheapens it.

I've never heard my Father tell anyone he loves them. I've asked him why and he says its because if you have to say it, then it means nothing.

..which sort of makes sense, but is also a load of old cobblers cause not everyone is certain of how they are perceived. I tell my GF that I love her all the time and she tells me that she loves me as well. I never get tired of hearing it or feel it is cheapened in any way. Its my good fortune to be loved. I was very lonely until I met her.

With my Mother, I feel that we love each other, and she tells me how much she loves me on a regular basis. Often I know that I love her but I can't say it. Like Suzy, its like I was damaged in the past and I can't always forget it. I know she loves me though and I know how much it means for her to know I love her in return. And the truth of the matter is, I do love her, and my Father too. They were not very good parents in some respects, but at the same time they were excellent parents. In the end, they did what they did because they were also damaged by their parents, and I can't just shift the blame back through the generations. Such blame means nothing.
I accept their love as I accept and forgive their flaws. When I can I let them know how I feel. Some day I will tell my Father that I love him. Once upon a time such a statement would have angered him, but with age I think he is seeing the world in a different light and I hope he learns how important, also to him, it is to state the obvious sometimes.

I have to admit..this thread has been a bit saddening to me. There seems to be such an apparent disregard or just lack of the belief or ability for unconditional love.


I always say please thank you and all the rest of the courtesies. I move around a lot and never really have lived anywhere long enough to have a long term relationship with shopkeepers, bus drivers or postpeople. They are always just the ever changing scenery to my life.


No. I don't really think it is always necessary to acknowledge the obvious. Usually just your interactions with them will portray this.


Friends and Family yes..I am very free with the I love you words..I never regarded them as some special secret gift to only be given or handed out to the most ordained in your life. I love everybody..love you is my common sign off on the phone, farewell and I say it always. Am also known in the family for my greeting card writings..I have made my parents, siblings cry. I hate the cards that have someone else's writing in it..I always buy blank and fill them up. My mum carries around in her wallet poems I wrote her as a kid and young adult. I have always been one to express.