Full Version: Declaration of Independence Banned!
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopu...storyID=6911883
Questions for Debate;
1) Do you agree with the school's decision?
2) Is political correctness going too far?
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
QUOTE
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.
Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.
"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.
"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."
Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.
"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.
"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."
Questions for Debate;
1) Do you agree with the school's decision?
2) Is political correctness going too far?
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
There's not enough information available to answer your questions. The Reuters article says:
What it doesn't say is how the teacher framed this information. What was the lesson plan? How was the information being presented? Was Steven Williams pushing a Christian agenda or was he presenting the information from a purely historical perspective?
I think that these are all important questions that need to be answered. We're only getting one side of the story, so far.
Edited to fix typo.
QUOTE
Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."
What it doesn't say is how the teacher framed this information. What was the lesson plan? How was the information being presented? Was Steven Williams pushing a Christian agenda or was he presenting the information from a purely historical perspective?
I think that these are all important questions that need to be answered. We're only getting one side of the story, so far.
Edited to fix typo.
1) Do you agree with the school's decision?
I hope I do. By this I mean hopefully there is much more to this issue than is being presented in this article. I can't find any supplemental information on this from Google News. This one is hot off the presses and shows it being less than an hour old.
But as presented I most certainly don't agree with the decision.
2) Is political correctness going too far?
As presented I think it is separation of church and state going too far. Religion and Christianity and people who believe in God are part of this country's heritage and history.
This item seems like such a straw man that I don't believe it is the full story. But as presented it seems to be a policy put in place to pull all religious reference out of course material. This is even sillier than the movement to ban Harry Potter because of religion (witchcraft)
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
No. It is a pretty deist document and uses the term Creator and nature's God.
But it makes a great headline!
I hope I do. By this I mean hopefully there is much more to this issue than is being presented in this article. I can't find any supplemental information on this from Google News. This one is hot off the presses and shows it being less than an hour old.
But as presented I most certainly don't agree with the decision.
2) Is political correctness going too far?
As presented I think it is separation of church and state going too far. Religion and Christianity and people who believe in God are part of this country's heritage and history.
This item seems like such a straw man that I don't believe it is the full story. But as presented it seems to be a policy put in place to pull all religious reference out of course material. This is even sillier than the movement to ban Harry Potter because of religion (witchcraft)
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
No. It is a pretty deist document and uses the term Creator and nature's God.
But it makes a great headline!
Before you get all hysterical--is there a history to this teacher?
It smells funny to me.
Kind of staged.
Great for publicity and trying to ramp up hysteria against the
EVIL HORDES OF LIBERALISM.
I forsee 27 7 coverage from the talk radio and cable Rally Monkeys
Evil America hating Leftists continue assault on Traditional American values
They EAT babies writes Ann Coulter
Watch home videos of Abortions screams Limbaugh
Wrong side of History chirps Hannity
Just how many of the documents were purely religious tracts?
I'll bet he had the Declaration of Independence hidden in between it all.
Keyphrase is this
Reads like a TBN sunday afternoon film.
Persecuted Christian savaged by Secularist supporters of gay marriage. This is exactly why god allowed NYC to be bombed will be the lead in news story by Pat Robertson.
1) Do you agree with the school's decision? Until I get a list of the material he provided--authenticated by people NOT associated with mr. williams--I'll reserve judgement as to whether it happened.
2) Is political correctness going too far? If it did happen sure, a little too overboard, but I fail to see how he was persecuted for being christian. If the material --to the schools way of thinking--violated their rules then just HOW was he persecuted for being christian.
Thankfully there are strong laws preventing attempts to indoctrinate children in public schools into any religious sect. So I would assume he had to be aware of this and knew he was pushing the limits--at the very least.
I find this timing suspicious given the rights desire to break up a certain court to destroy its influence and allow the christian right to further their goals of creating a Christian NATION of GOD.
I get the feeling that there will be many more of these types of melodramatic stories appearing regularly as the christian right tries to find weak spots in the Constitution and hot button issues they can exploit. They can't live off the fear of gay marriage forever.
You WILL be assimilated.
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
I have accepted the fact I am-- for now-- out numbered by those who take their marching orders from some musty old babylonian spirit. I could live with it and respect their beliefs if I were to ever receive the same.
It smells funny to me.
Kind of staged.
Great for publicity and trying to ramp up hysteria against the
EVIL HORDES OF LIBERALISM.
I forsee 27 7 coverage from the talk radio and cable Rally Monkeys
Evil America hating Leftists continue assault on Traditional American values
They EAT babies writes Ann Coulter
Watch home videos of Abortions screams Limbaugh
Wrong side of History chirps Hannity
Just how many of the documents were purely religious tracts?
I'll bet he had the Declaration of Independence hidden in between it all.
Keyphrase is this
QUOTE
Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.
Reads like a TBN sunday afternoon film.
Persecuted Christian savaged by Secularist supporters of gay marriage. This is exactly why god allowed NYC to be bombed will be the lead in news story by Pat Robertson.
1) Do you agree with the school's decision? Until I get a list of the material he provided--authenticated by people NOT associated with mr. williams--I'll reserve judgement as to whether it happened.
2) Is political correctness going too far? If it did happen sure, a little too overboard, but I fail to see how he was persecuted for being christian. If the material --to the schools way of thinking--violated their rules then just HOW was he persecuted for being christian.
Thankfully there are strong laws preventing attempts to indoctrinate children in public schools into any religious sect. So I would assume he had to be aware of this and knew he was pushing the limits--at the very least.
I find this timing suspicious given the rights desire to break up a certain court to destroy its influence and allow the christian right to further their goals of creating a Christian NATION of GOD.
I get the feeling that there will be many more of these types of melodramatic stories appearing regularly as the christian right tries to find weak spots in the Constitution and hot button issues they can exploit. They can't live off the fear of gay marriage forever.
You WILL be assimilated.
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
I have accepted the fact I am-- for now-- out numbered by those who take their marching orders from some musty old babylonian spirit. I could live with it and respect their beliefs if I were to ever receive the same.
How about we debate this without being inflammatory? 
TOPICS:
1) Do you agree with the school's decision?
2) Is political correctness going too far?
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
TOPICS:
1) Do you agree with the school's decision?
2) Is political correctness going too far?
3) Are you offended by the Declaration of Independence because it mentions "God"?
QUOTE(Eeyore @ Nov 24 2004, 02:00 PM)
...hopefully there is much more to this issue than is being presented in this article. I can't find any supplemental information on this from Google News. This one is hot off the presses and shows it being less than an hour old.
There seems to be more to the article then presented.
QUOTE
"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.
"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."
Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.
"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."
Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.
Apparently this stems from a law suit, where the lead attorney is trying to paint the principal as a heartless, godless evil dictator of the school, when his client seems to have wanted to teach that the founding father's were religious. Though he does claim that 5-10% were Christian based.
QUOTE
"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."
As I said, she is a godless, Christian hating, anti-American, slave master, or at least that is what the attorney wants us to know. I bet on Monday, if not later today the school will release an official letter sounding pretty much that it was Williams own agenda to teach a Christian America and how such a program violates school policy and separation of church and state. You know the common he said she said argument where mistakes on both sides were made because it's a public school.
CLOSED. More inflammatory comments. If you are unwilling or unable to take a debate seriously, please refrain from ruining it for everyone else.
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