Walmart claims to have had a bad black friday; however, other retail stores have reported large earnings including:

• Target
• JC Penney,
• Sears
• Best Buy
• Lowes

One reason seems to be the lack of buyer incitive and the lack of free giveaways on Black Tuesday. Another reason could be due to the fact that Walmart caters to the 'poor' in society, and thus the store seems to reflect the same quality.

Walmart now lies prone as other retail stores seem to take away their business. Stores like Target and JC Penney have taken Walmarts clothing in addition to the fact that Kathy Lee Clothing line was built in sweat shops in China. Stores like Best Buy have taken away electronics and CDs, in addition to the fact that these stores do not edit their CDs like Walmart. Stores like Sears and Lowes have capitalizes on the gardening and tools.

Questions:

1. With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.
   
2. Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods?
   
3. Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

Very hard for me to say, since my Wal-Mart experience, and US retailing experience generally, is very limited. It would be ironic if WalMart were to lose business in a big way to more specialist retailers, since they largely built to their current size by selling the same kind of products as a variety of specialists under one roof.

Walmart's stock hasn't risen since the 80's? I thought the Walton family retained a controlling share? (I may be wrong, in which case no problem.)

A restructure might do the trick. It might even pay to develop several retail brands that are more specialist than the big sheds - if UK retailing is anything to go by, most of the economies of scale come up-channel from the supply chain, which can be shared across more than one retail brand.

Incidentally, a lot of UK retailers are trading poorly just now, for the opposite reason - most of the ones that are struggling are getting hammered by competition from the big four grocers, one of which (Asda) is owned by WalMart, who are moving towards the WalMart model (though not quite the pile-it-high-sell-it-cheap simplicity). My old company, WHSmith, is one of the worst hit. Perhaps my ejection from there was a blessing in disguise?

With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

I don’t think so.

The one thing about retail is you can’t get too excited or down during the peaks and valleys, one bad day doesn’t sink a giant. And remember this is a sales forecast they didn’t hit, I’m sure they had naturally increased this years sales over prior year.

In many medium to smaller cities they’re the only game in town and their Sam’s Clubs are always packed, good demographic diversity and they have a huge advantage with the two types of retail outlets. I’d look for some competition from the Sears/Kmart merger, one of our top executives just left our company to steer this potentially formidable ship.

Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods?

Don’t know about this one, their stock has had 8 - 100% stock splits since 1980, I’d call that pretty good performance. At one time their stock made up a good portion of my portfolio, however since I found out they manipulate an associates weekly hours to avoid having to fork over benefits (yet 5 of the wealthiest 8 Americans are Waltons) I’ve sold every nickel and haven’t stepped foot into one of their stores since.


Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

I don’t’ know about overhauling their stores, I’m sure some need a touch up just due to aging, but there are too many successful ‘warehouse’ types of super stores (groceries and goods) to make any radical changes. They didn’t get to their current retail giant status by accident, they'll be fine.

Well, I don't believe it's the gloom and doom that people are talking about, but it's significant. Walmart is a solid blue-chip stock and to answer question #2 ("Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s..."), you really need to do some research. Walmart stocks have done well year after year, just some years as not as good as some others. The annualized return of Walmart's stock from 1970 to 1990 was about 35%. During the 90's "lean" years, growth dropped to less than 20%. So, for a few years in the early 90's, they ran a little flat. In the late 90's, they turned it around and got somewhere around an 80% annualized return. That's impressive by anybody's standards. So, your statement in question number 2 is completely unfounded.

Unfortunately, people will read into this story what the media tells them. While the problem with "black Friday" could be a multitude of issues, a crappy economy is only one of them. But that's the only one people will hear and believe. So, if they hang onto their money anticipating the worst, these stories simply become self-fulfilling prophecies.

The skies may not be as sunny as we'd like, but the sky is not falling.

Well, before we can really answer the questions I think it is important to know why Walmart missed its sales forecast on Black Friday and these other stores did so well. The article Yehoshua cited is all of about 4 sentences and it doesn't really tell us anything other than they missed some unspecified sales target.

Was the sales forecast unrealistic? What was the sales forecast? Have Walmart's competitors launched some kind of agressive campaign against them? Was there some kind of boycott in effect against Walmart that day?

Until we have a little more raw data here I don't think there is any way to really debate whether this missed sales forecast was significant or not. I'm looking around for a more detailed story, I'll share it with everyone if I find anything.

1.With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry? I think Walmart needs to make some changes to continue to truly compete. There are two things in which Walmart is sadly lacking: Quality and customer service. People are often willing to pay a bit more for a pleasant environment and better quality. Target has them beat by lightyears in both, JCPenny and Sears are very close behind. Even K Mart, which I believe Sears bought out though it filed Chapter 11, offers much better service and quality, in my experience.

Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods? The goods still have value perhaps, but those goods are offered elsewhere. Shoppers enjoy saving a few pennies, but if they can find the same merchandise, as well as better quality and service with a closely competitive price elsewhere, they might go to the nicer store and avoid the aggravation (and risk of car door-dings in the parking lot) of going to Walmart. It's a trashy environment.

1) With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

Right now, many retailers such as Sears and K-mart understand that they can't just sit by and let Wal-mart dominate the industry without giving them real competition. Even though the Sears/K-mart merger will have no immediate impact
with Wal-mart status's as the dominate retailer, it forces Wal-mart to re-examine its image and become more consumer friendly not only to its customers, but to their own employees. People have to feel not only is Wal-mart a great place to shop because of its low prices, but also a good place to work. Right now, they are only 50/50.


2) Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods?

Not necessarily because most investors tend to focus on the long-term value as opposed to the current value. I don't know the primary reason why Wal-mart's stock didn't rise in the 80s, however based on their value now on goods I definitely don't think the value has gone down.


3) Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

Here is one area where Wal-mart has room for more improvement. If their image on labor relations wasn't a problem, this wouldn't be an non-issue. But the flip-side of this argument is how Wal-mart will afford better quality employees?? Are we talking about providing more education to Wal-mart employees? If so, where is the value of helping employees when you don't pay them at least minimum wage or higher. Only better labor relations will improve the status of Wal-mart.

With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

Ooooh, I can’t tell you how much it warms the cockles of my heart to know Walmart had a crummy “Black Friday”! I won’t go into the many reasons I am so tickled at their bad luck; it’s been covered on another thread. Somehow I don’t think this will force Walmart to change anything; they’re the 800 lb gorilla of retail…unless of course they decide to lay off a bunch of workers to make their bottom line look better, which is something I would expect of them.

I’m glad this is finally being recognized; that maybe, just maybe consumers are getting tired of humongous, crappy-looking stores selling cheap (monetarily and quality-wise) stuff made in Taiwan from a company that treats its employees like doggie doo – worse, even…at least doggie doo gets picked up.

Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods?

Walmart continues to be the bellwether of the stock market (more so than I think it deserves). Even Forbes is sounding ominous. I think everyone is overreacting.


I hope Forbes are wrong when they refer to "retailers", and that all other retailers are doing just wonderfully, Walmart being the exception. But, like Fife and Drum said, 8 stock splits ain’t too shabby. I think Walmart’s financial demise isn’t imminent (drat!), but maybe this is a sign that people are finally getting wise to the 800 lb gorilla and realizing there are other options for spending their consumer dollars.

"Now, Target! now, Penneys! now, Macys and Lowes!
On, Sears! on BestBuy! on, Kmart and Kohls!
You can carry the torch! you can do it all!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away Walmart!"

I am afraid that you are badly mistaken about Walmarts stock price. After adjusted stock price for 2 for 1 splits, Walmart(wmt) was under $5 for most of the 80's and is now $53.15. That is approximately 1,000%(if my math is correct) gain in 20 years. I would take that any day and twice on Sunday.

But alas I have never invested in Walmart since Sam Walton died and the company has done a complete 180 degree swing. I have boycotted Walmart the past 2 years and believe the company is a 900 pound gorilla. They have added a lot of jobs but Walmart has contributed to a lot of jobs being lost and is a negative on the community.

Oh yes, it you want to look at the complete past history of Walmarts stock price, it is at the following site.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/in...%2Fintchart.asp

With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

Target
JC Penney,
Sears
Best Buy
Lowes


The only 'speciality' stores you referenced to only one of them is a specialty store (Lowes). Maybe Best Buy as well. Target, JCPenney, and Sears all sell a wide variety of products targeted at many different markets like Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart's success is primarily based on cheap products that rival the quality of name brand products. If they want to knock out Target they will have to sell products that are seen as higher quality (usually they are not) which would mean they would have to raise prices. Their is room for change. What they need to do is not only offer cheaper products but supposed higher quality products. The problem with this is that people who spend more with the illusion or sometimes well founded idea that it is better quality normally do not shop at stores with cheaper generic products. Though I would be interested in the results if they implemented this. Consumer's that spend additional money normally goto companies that exclusively raise their prices to make them believe (again sometimes well founded) they are getting a higher quality product. Alot of people prefer a generic brand as long as it offer's comparable quality.

Ultimately this comes down to the manufacturers that Wal-Mart taps to offer their products. It has nothing to do with Wal-Mart but it has everything to do with people being dissatisfied with what they bought from Wal-Mart. Therefore the only option I see for Wal-Mart expanding is to implement a standard of quality test before they sell a product.

Most consumer's want cheap prices but most consumer's dont want it to end up costing them more in the long run. Consumer's that buy cheaper good's normally notice if they have to buy two of them which ends up costing them more than if they bought a better brand.

As far as the projection goes it most likely was inflated from last years numbers. Though consumer's like cheap prices they hate long lines. This is why I believe they did not achieve their projection simply because they where to overcrowded and alot of people dont like that even if it means spending an extra 10 bucks to cut down the time they stand in line.

Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods?

Any evidence of this?

Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

Of course but all of that cost's money.



K-Mart purchased Sears.

How is Target "light years" ahead of Wal-Mart? The only difference I see is a shorter line and less crowded stores. The brand names may be different but I dont see any major difference in quality.

Just because you pay more for it doesnt mean it's a better quality product though it easily gives you the impression that it is.

Alienware is a prime example of this.

Interesting. I'll never understand economics. How could K-Mart purchase Sears after filing for bankrupcy? (just a rhetorical question, it's off-topic).



Seriously? Have you juxtaposed the two? Target is cleaner, has more helpful salespeople, and a superior line of products. There are items you can buy for your home that look very similar to Pottery Barn for a third of the price. I buy most of my childrens clothes and shoes there, and about half of mine. Great prices, and extremely good quality for the money. Walmart doesn't compare. The last time I shopped for clothes at Walmart it was for something to wear at a trailer trash costume party.

That's the funny thing about creditors. Even if you file bankruptcy they will give you millions more as long as you have had other's give millions to you. Look up the history of Donald Trump for more information.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Donald_Trump



Yes I have and the shoes that I purchased from Wal-Mart are still sitting next to the ones that was given to me as a Christmas present from Target. Buy something from Target, then buy the same product from Wal-Mart. Chances are they will last the same amount of time. I havent noticed any 'friendlier' customer service at Target with the exception that I have to wait in longer lines at Wal-Mart.

Given I havent extensively 'tested' alot of products from the two stores because I hardly shop at either. Have you?

Higher prices and pretty colors always give the illusion of higher quality.

I'm not sure why it's happening but I like it.

I have only two theories, one) poor folks are just doing very badly right now and those are the folks that Walmarts bread and butter and two) Walmart has cheap crap which is outdone by speciality stores. You don't go to Walmart to get a decent TV or decent piece of furniture, and if the other stores are giving mark-downs, why go to Walmart?

A combination of these suggests bad times for Walmart.

I can only imagine poor people are doing pretty poorly these days, considering the huge amount of educated middle class people that are joining their ranks and competing with them for minimum wage jobs.

As far as Walmart stock goes, haven't they gobbled up huge amount of market share since 1980? Aren't they the biggest co. in the world? If the stock hasn't risen there's another reason other than Walmart doing poorly.

With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Wal*Mart's goods?

Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

I think Wal*Mart's worst enemy is lack of customer service. I like to grocery shop in the wee, wee hours of the morning when Wal*Mart is the only place open. I understand the necessity of stocking shelves late at night or early in the morning, but Wal*Mart employees leave baskets of cardboard and skids of merchandise blocking aisles, even when nobody is working that area. When you mention this, the only answer you get is something like "that's the way we do it." My answer is usually, "maybe you could find a better way to do it."

For the most part, Wal*Mart employees are stuck in dead-end jobs with little incentive to provide custome service.

I sometimes think Sam Walton would flip over in his grave if he could see what's happening.

1. With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry?
Yes. If you don't change it's outlook, they will be left behind in the dust.

2. Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Walmart's goods?
N/A

3. Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?
N/A

With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

This may have already changed. Walmart seems to have gone for the low-hanging fruit, establishing stores all across the land where discount retail is welcomed. I'll write more about this below.

Since Walmart's stock has not risen since the 1980s, is it safe to say that those who buy stocks see no value in Wal*Mart's goods?

I don't think the stock value has anything to do with what Walmart sells but with how aggressive and successful it is at establishing new store sites. More below.

Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

The look and feel of Walmart certainly could be improved to make the shopping experience less uncomfortable. Personally, I avoid Walmart in favor of online shopping, even if I might pay more. Generally though, I can get stuff cheaper online than at Walmart, and I'm more sure of finding my exact need or want.

It looks to me that Walmart is going after the places that are anti-corporate megastores like mountain communities near metro areas. Monument (north of Colorado Springs) successfully pushed Walmart away, forcing it to plant its store farther into the prairie. Our little berg of Woodland Park is pushing as well. The proposed store will likely go to a chunk of unincorporated Teller County out near Divide.

One fear is that Walmart will drive the locally owned small businesses out, and that's part of our character. Another fear is the increase in town traffic, a problem that exists and can only get worse. Why encourage it?

So Walmart has a couple of things working against it: site saturation and online shopping. I suppose in metro areas, it also suffers from competition for the tight budgets. I'm also doubtful that shopping Walmart really means saving a whole lot, or even getting what you're looking for.

Contrast the experience of suffering city traffic, crowded parking lot, warehouse environment with comparing stores online from home, using the cool search engines available, bathroom readily available and private, no strange people to deal with, no long lines to suffer.

There are some advantages to brick/mortars, and there is something to be said about the social draw of shopping centers/malls -- but Walmart doesn't provide them. When someone around here greets me in the market or hardware store, it's because they know me (or will soon) and the greeting is genuine. And there's something to be said about providing jobs to outlying areas, but we don't want to sell the town's character for a bag full of gold.

This is interesting: Politically, this is a fairly conservative town. However, if city council proposes something we want, we are okay with paying higher taxes. We've gone for better schools, a new library, and a nicer main drag -- stuff that benefits everyone. So in a way, taxation-wise, the place is liberal and probably one of the higher hanging fruits that Walmart could Target (phew, pun intended).

With speciality stores taking on Walmart, will Walmart be forced to change it's outlook on the retail industry.

Speculation about structure change to Walmart, including a more modern look and an overhaul to better quality employees', have been tossed into the ring by financial investors. Could such changes improve the status of Walmart?

I can address both these questions by relating something that happened tonight.

While Walmart has good prices, the change that will help them is a little more respect for their customers. I went shopping at Walmart tonight and I’m still a bit angry about what happened.

I arrived at WM about 11:00 p.m. There are two entrances to the building—one on the South end and the other on the North. WM closes the South entrance at 10:00 p.m. When I arrived, men were using a machine to scrub the walkway in front of the only open entrance. There were no “slippery when wet” signs on the walk. Some of the water had seeped inside on a linoleum surface, which BTW is much slicker than concrete when wet. Again, there was no sign advising customers of the potential danger.

I went inside and confronted the manager about the situation and, believe it or not, she didn’t even know a crew was working at the entrance. She had no answer when I asked her why they couldn’t open the South entrance while the crew worked on the North entrance, creating a potential hazard.

When I left about 12:15 a.m. the crew was still washing the concrete at the North entrance. The South entrance was still closed.

I’m seriously considering filing a complaint with the corporate office later today.

Is there much doubt about why people are finding other places to shop?

More news about the Evil Empire. The Winn-Dixie chain is declaring bankruptcy because it can't compete with the Walmart behemoth.

Nothing like learning how the competition operates so you can cut the legs out from under them.

They're stacking WM stores on top of each other in Alaska.

In Utah, they're using eminent domain to force people from their homes to put in a WM.

And the same in Columbus, Ohio.

And just for the say whaaa'??? factor:

My sincerest wish is for WM to so overextend itself that it implodes. They are a blight on the landscape.

If you want them to implode, then patronizing their store is exactly how you will do it. Support them to the tilt. You know that they have low prices, so you are safe to assume that if you are not buying from them, then someone else is. Capitalism is inevitable. The only way to end it is to submit to it.