This is a question for Christians here:

Do you believe in Hell?
Who do you think will end up there?
How do you reconcile Christ's teachings of compassion with the idea that people may end up in Hell to suffer for all eternity, particularly those whose "sin" may consist of merely ascribing to a non-Christian theology?

Yes

Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The devil and demons and the souls God has judged not to enter heaven.

First off, the references to hell in the New Testament are mostly from Jesus' teachings about it. So, Jesus himself had no problems reconciling it with his teachings on compassion.

I can reconcile it because God's compassion goes along with God's justice. God is a holy god and is perfect in all his ways. There is no sin in him. And those who fellowship with him (heaven) cannot have any sin either. But, since all people are sinful, if the story ended there, then it'll be a pretty lonely place up there. If God didn't create some way to solve this problem, then everyone would be in hell. This would go against God's compassion. So, God has created a way to be both 100% compassionate and 100% just. He exchanged peoples' sins with Jesus' sinlessness. So, Jesus was condemned (died on the cross and went to hell) for those who trust in him. In turn, those who trust in Jesus are completely sinless in God's eyes and can go to heaven.

I agree with your explanation Osteng. I do not agree ( if that's even what you're saying) that non Christians who do not have faith in Jesus will be deprived of heaven.

If they have never been taught about Jesus, how can they have faith in Him? It could be considered a deficit of knowledge. God would not hold them accountable.

Madtown

hell is a myth

hell is a part of religious mythology

but some would say that it is

alive and well here

on

earth.


jjirout

There are those who would contend that we are in an endless cycle of re-birth and that we can get no deeper into eternity than we already are, and that as you say, hell is here right now on earth with us... as is heaven, but that you have the eyes to see it. Your choice what you see. If time had a begining... how long did it not exist. And IF a person can see auras and has lucid dreams (conscious "Astral projection"), sees the future from time to time or somehow is sensitive to the thoughts of others, is that a bad thing? These things are REAL to many people so in SOME cases, it's not even a function of faith... it's just reality.. they see the auras, they share the thoughts, and think nothing of it as being un-natural or a function of un-real, which kind of makes a lot of discussion about the unseen ... unreal.

Oh yea... to the title of the thread.... Hell is real, if you are there.

Hell is a fictional place created by ancient people that didn't know any better. Without a physical body fire and brimstone are powerless tools of torture. They may want to revise that part.

the teachings of hell jesus gave are seriously twisted (as is most of what he "said") all the qoutes from jesus were passed on in stories and weren't actually written down until for 2-300 years after he left. only the scriputures of thomas(I think) are from jesus' day. hell does exsist, but not in the sense of the christian hell (lake of fire, pit of death, etc, etc...) hell is a spiritual state, it is here, and YOU create it for yourself. we all go to "heaven" when we die, even people like hitler!

I present you with this thought if you believe in eternal puunishment: god is all knowing, he knows all that has happened, is happening and is yet to happen. (even the bible says so) if god knows everything that is going to happen, he knew things like the holocaust and what hitler did would happen. rather then let all this suffering happen in the world, and let all of his "cosen people" (not a burn on jews here) and knew hitlers soul would go to hell anyway, why not save all the time and trouble and send his soul straight to hell to begin with? and according to the bible most of the world is going to hell anyway, so why not save the time and send us straight there to begin with? (I hate when people waste my time!) could it be that there is NO HELL!?!?!?

hell was created by the church to scare people into submission ("do as we say the bible says to do or you will burn for all eternity in hell" and who wants to burn forever?) I am not knocking christianity nor christians, the religion works for them, they need someone to telll them what to believe (which is a very human thing, and not bad in and of itself) it isn't for me. and I am not saying the bible is a bad book, it has a lot of good ideas in it (I've heard bible means Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth)

the god of the bible is a sadist, it's obvious he enjoys making people suffer. and remember, all roads lead to the same place.

so, no, hell is fictional.

Considering that we are not all born into the same level of spiritual opportunity, HOW can a just and benevolent god only provide a single lifetime in which to develop a "proper" sense of faith? Just by virtue of the FACT that we are not all born into an even playing field, throws a wet blanket on the idea that anybody could be "going to hell". I personally DO believe that as was mentioned... Hell is right here... right now, but that so is the kingdom of Heaven... it is all around us and is quite beautiful on a clear night or pretty much 24-7 IF you have the eyes to see it.

God of the Bible is a sadist? Got any good arguments to back that up?

How about the slaughter of the people of Jericho or the drowning of Pharoh's army or the Great Flood? Such acts are hardly demonstrative of universal unending compassion.

First off, let's define sadist:
"The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty."

God doesn't take pleasure in being cruel to humans. Quite the opposite. God doesn't desire for anyone to perish.

II Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

In all three examples that you gave, God gave opportunities for people to repent of their sins. But, they all rejected God's provision for repentance, so they suffered judgement.

Again, just because God is just, that doesn't mean that He is not compassionate. He gives all people the opportunity to change their ways.

Good people seem to suffer more than bad.

it was just an opinion that the biblical god is a sadist. it just seems to me he enjoys mass slaughter. let's see: the killing of all of the first born of egypt (this included infants as well as adults) the destruction of sodom and grehmorrah, the flood (he didn't really give anyone a chance to repent, he said " ah hell, I F-ed big time, I gotta kill everyone but noah and the animals) telling people they have free will to live as they want, but if not exactly as he says they SHOULD, you gotta go to hell to burn forever. he seems to enjoy kiling those that don't worship as he sees fit as well. (again this ends with you burning in the lake of fire for all eternity) this sure sounds like a sadist to me!

Una bomber did you completely discount the fact that Moses gave the Pharoh ample opportunity to free the Jews? If God is to have his people free how would he do it? Ask first then a small nuisance type plague, when that didnt work then what? A little stronger one maybe?


Do you have children? If not do you have parents?...hehe maybe you parent the best example.

When raising children you quickly learn they will test your limits. If your child reaches for the stove you say "NO dont touch that is HOT!!" "Or It will BITE You" or some such. Does that stop the child? No because at this point they dont have a clue what Hot means or Bite for that matter. They may react to the sternness or suddenness of your voice but not to the command. This method works ok until the child turns about 2.5 years old. Moms am I right here? They call it the terrible twos for a reason. By about two the child starts to figure things out on its own. It begins the experience phase of the learning process. Suddenly Mom saying no isnt good enough any more. Now is when the child learns what hot means. This is when the child learns what bite and owie means. BUT does it stop them? Nope they have to be hurt first they have to understand that pain is what they should fear. Now what happens? Now Mom can effectively use pain as a deterrent against unacceptable behavior. Now is when the child is told once maybe twice but generally that third time brings consequences. Sometimes a smack on the hand sometimes a smack on the butt either way there are consequences.
At some point Mom starts telling the child ridiculous things to get them to mind....." If you dont go to bed right now I am gonna call the bogey man." It doesnt matter to the child the bogey man doesnt exist. What matters is Mom says he does and Mom is God...

This is much the same way God works with his children. He tells us he will send us to our room with no dinner for eternity if we arent good.


It is my opinion he know more means it than Mom does about calling the bogey man. But he can no more admit it is a lie than she can or she loses the tool.

Once God established his superiority over man and man was convinced of it. God backed off...just like Moms do. God said ok I wont hit you with floods(the belt) anymore and I wont ground you to the yard but you better play nice or there will be hell to pay.. You guys know the rules now play nice...!!

Is there a hell? Depends on definition as already stated. Is there Evil? Absolutely and it is all around us. Do evil people go to hell? I think not I think their punishment is the eternal absence of God. No holy spirit, no love, no comfort, nothingness. To me this would be hell. To not know God or the Holy spirit. To be forced into a life where they did not know me. This would be hell.

I suspect we all go around a couple times getting ever closer to the God head much like the Hindus believe. But you cant really discuss this within the confines of this thread because it encompasses so many others.

You see in reality the expanding universe theory supports the Christian religion while a static universe model supports the Hindus. A static universe would support multiple layers to the universe with the Godhead being the controlling force. While we all understand the expanding universe theory. Hindus believe evil folks may come back as a dung beetle or some such and have to work through the life cycles to get back to human. This would be hell to a Hindu wouldnt it?

So anyway I think like I say you go around learning every time progressing closer or further from "God". Until the final transformation when you become one with "God". Hell is the constantly moving away from "God" and living a life of ......yup you guessed it..BAD KARMA...


Just an opinion but heck everybody has one..


GBYA

Aahz

Una bomber did you completely discount the fact that Moses gave the Pharoh ample opportunity to free the Jews? If God is to have his people free how would he do it? Ask first then a small nuisance type plague, when that didnt work then what? A little stronger one maybe?

Didn't God also harden Pharoahs heart? That wasn't fair was it?

Shhhh you werent supposed to read that part.....LOL..


Aahz

Interesting... It would appear that Hell exists at such point as you have no love or faculty for love. I buy into the more static universe model. Is Hell a PLACE or a WHERE? Where would you put such a place? Would the subterranean areas of the earths surface? What about the flaming regions of our sun?.... hmmm.

Here's another question that is related to whether or not anybody can believe that there is even such a PLACE as hell. If the Bible is "Gods word"... why is not the word of every person who feels those words were divinely inspired, the "Word of God"? WHO put the definition of hell into the Bible in the first place, and what gave them carte-blanche providence to unilateral truth re: the word of God? If it was any human or even an entire population of humans, it was a fallible idea. As I allude earlier, all human documentation on this earth has been generated by the human mind, and only a LIMITED scope of that mind to boot simply by being exclusive in any way.

Hell can be a place... it's where you find it. At nearly any point any one of us whether we "embraced Jesus" or not, could find ourselves "in Hell", but, we may not be trapped there for eternity, especially if "we seek... and therefor find"... or "knock... it will open".. have some faith, but not necessarily any dogma.

Let me ask you this, is a judge a sadist cause he has condemned a guilty man to death? Of course not. Why would God, the judge of all mankind, be considered a sadist? Futhermore, God alone is the one who created all humans. As creator, he is entitled to either give or take away life. Again, in all the examples you gave, God most certainly did give everyone a chance to repent.

All the Egyptians saw the power of God through the plagues. The way out of the death of the first born sons was not limited to the Israelites. It was limited to those who did not have blood on their doorways.

Sodom and Gomorrah were visited by two angels. And the life of Lot was a testimony to them also.

The people during the flood most certainly would have seen the giant boat in Noah's backyard. Of course nobody else believed that a world wide flood can occur, so they simply mocked Noah.

God a sadist, hardly.

A judge pronounces judgement on an individual for his or her actions. He does not visit the actions of the individual (in this case Pharoh) on the group. If the Allies had killed every single member of the Wehrmacht in 1945 because they were led by Hitler, how would that have been any less justified?

Seems to me that the Judeo-Christian God is a hypocrite, and preaches the coda of 'Do as I say, don't do as I do'. He is allowed to kill regardless of guilt or justice, but we are not. He tells us to forgive those who have 'tresspassed against us', but he condemns those who tresspass against him to eternal damnation.

Was it the Egyptian's fault that they were not 'God's chosen people'? Is it the fault of a Muslim or a Hindu that he happens to be born into a religion that is not Christianity? How is God saying 'You will be punished for being born into the wrong religion', any different from men saying 'You will be punished for being born into the wrong race'?

Why would anyone want to have any part of such a two-faced and callous deity?

In terms of sin, like I mentioned before, everyone is guilty. There is nobody that can claim to be entirely sinless. So, God has a right to pronouce everyone guilty.

Another difference is that as creator, God is the ultimate judge of mankind. We cannot pronounce eternal judgement on someone else cause we are in no position of authority over them. However, God as the authority of all is in the position to pronounce judgement.

Like I said about the Egyptians, the distinction between the deaths of the first born sons was not which ethnic group they belonged in, but if they had blood over the doorposts. If any of the Israelites did not have blood on their doorways, the first born in that house would have died too. Likewise, if any of the Egyptians had blood on their doorway, then the first born in that house would not die.

Even those who were not born into a Christian belief system and therefore do not have the facility to ask for forgiveness? How can they be judged on the same criteria as those who do have that facility?



Well I didn't vote for him!

So what do i do if I do not believe in the Christian God?



I was actually thinking more about the drowning of Pharoh's army in the Red Sea? if got is omnipotent and can destroy an army, why can't he just destroy Pharoh?

Or was he 'sending a message' to Egypt...?

Here's another thought to ponder:

Lucifer was God's greatest angel, and in his rebellion, he was turned away from God. In essence, his Hell was to be deprived of God's presence. That being the case, why do we have a tendency to believe in the idea of Hell as a punishment? Why should it be a bad place at all? What stake would Lucifer have in torturing people? In torturing them he would be working in collusion with god. Wouldn't he prefer to enlist them in his cause, the cause of rebellion? It would seem that, should people end up being "damned," he would welcome them. Hell could be a really nice place!

The biggest problem I have with the whole concept of hell is that some more evangelical denominations not only buy into the tortuous eternal punishment vision, but believe that all those who do not ascribe to their beliefs will end up there - the most pious Moslems, the most ethical Buddhists, people who's only sin is in not recognizing the evangelical idea of god. See the girl in my avatar? A neighborhood kid told her she was going to burn in hell because Maya said she did not believe in God. What an intolerant and dangerous belief system! Needless to say, Maya was upset by this. It blows my mind that there are denominations out there theaching their children to be so intolerant and judgemental of others.

just a little off topic: qaurkhead, lucifer was not gods greatest angel, lucifer wasn't an angel, satan was gods most beutiful angel, and the one that rebel against heaven. lucifer is a reference to venus as the morning star. the actual name "lucifer" was mentioned 1 time in the entire bible in isaiah 14:12. lucifer comes the latin term meanin bearer of the light (venus as the morning star brings the sun out, the light) just to clear that up.

( http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm -
http://jabberwoq.com/lucifer.html )


by the way, religious hatred was responsible for 300,000 deaths in the past five years (maybe not the worst record but still bad) all religions teach the same basic ideal: do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

hell and heaven is todays world. I would like to escape but 98% of earths population seems to be in the grips of it with no way out. Just my opinion.