Full Version: Moving to the US
Hello all and a very happy new year! 
Among our resolutions for the year, my American wife and I are considering a possible relocation to the States. Our main reasons are :
1. she can't find a job here because she doesn't have a college degree
2. we will never be able to buy a house here, for the prices are way too high
3. I'd like to move because I want to start my career over (the current is stalling) and maybe work as a career counsellor
We already know that medical bills are very high, that college education costs alot and that we have to fear credit reports! Thus being said, we are not discouraged because we believe the odds are still better than staying in Europe and live in a tiny old apartment around Paris for the rest of our lives.
We'd like to hear your opinion, as Americans, whether you live within or outside of America.
1. What are the pros and cons of moving to and living in the States?
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans?
Among our resolutions for the year, my American wife and I are considering a possible relocation to the States. Our main reasons are :
1. she can't find a job here because she doesn't have a college degree
2. we will never be able to buy a house here, for the prices are way too high
3. I'd like to move because I want to start my career over (the current is stalling) and maybe work as a career counsellor
We already know that medical bills are very high, that college education costs alot and that we have to fear credit reports! Thus being said, we are not discouraged because we believe the odds are still better than staying in Europe and live in a tiny old apartment around Paris for the rest of our lives.
We'd like to hear your opinion, as Americans, whether you live within or outside of America.
1. What are the pros and cons of moving to and living in the States?
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans?
[FONT=Geneva][COLOR=gray]
smile
Being new to this site, I do not know you. Having lived in France for a few months and the USA all
my life, I don't think I would hesitate to come back here. The south, particularly Atlanta, is
experiencing enormous growth and wonderful opportunities for higher learning. Albeit that
housing has taken a sharp turn upward, you can still acquire a home with extraordinary
surroundings - lush trees and nice yards. Yes, health care has become more expensive, but what your wife could earn with any job would be far and above what insurance premiums and
deductibles would cost. I think you already know the answer!
smile
Being new to this site, I do not know you. Having lived in France for a few months and the USA all
my life, I don't think I would hesitate to come back here. The south, particularly Atlanta, is
experiencing enormous growth and wonderful opportunities for higher learning. Albeit that
housing has taken a sharp turn upward, you can still acquire a home with extraordinary
surroundings - lush trees and nice yards. Yes, health care has become more expensive, but what your wife could earn with any job would be far and above what insurance premiums and
deductibles would cost. I think you already know the answer!
I think unless you already have a job lined up here that, overall ,increases your quality of living you will be making a horrible mistake. Education costs are out of this world and if you don't have health insurance you stand a chance of total economic anihiliation. America has become a very mean place to live in the last couple of years, and is getting meaner.
With any move, you really, really need to be fairly secure that your overall quality of life will improve, and this includes things that many Europeans take for granted when they move to the US. My wife has the problem often, the anti-family policies of every company, where you need to sacrifice everything to a company that will jettison you the first chance they get. Remember, the US only is ranked about 14th (last list I saw) in quality of living, and Americans don't realize how hard they have to work, just to be rich enough to consider themselves broke!
With any move, you really, really need to be fairly secure that your overall quality of life will improve, and this includes things that many Europeans take for granted when they move to the US. My wife has the problem often, the anti-family policies of every company, where you need to sacrifice everything to a company that will jettison you the first chance they get. Remember, the US only is ranked about 14th (last list I saw) in quality of living, and Americans don't realize how hard they have to work, just to be rich enough to consider themselves broke!
That a Frenchmen is actually considering this is a shock to me...
Seriously, if you are anything like the Frenchmen I know, you should think about your feelings toward a good cuisine. You don't get any good coffee in the States, nor do they have baguettes or any white bread that comes close.
Beyond that I think it is a way of living that you have to get accustomed to. Do you like competition, being the best and doing everything to achieve your goals? Or do you look at work as a means to an end? I think that would be the things to think about. Plus, if you don't get a job in the States, there is little to none support from the government.
Still, moving now means you can exchange your Euros to Dollars at a very high rate, making the first steps in the US a little easier.
Seriously, if you are anything like the Frenchmen I know, you should think about your feelings toward a good cuisine. You don't get any good coffee in the States, nor do they have baguettes or any white bread that comes close.
Beyond that I think it is a way of living that you have to get accustomed to. Do you like competition, being the best and doing everything to achieve your goals? Or do you look at work as a means to an end? I think that would be the things to think about. Plus, if you don't get a job in the States, there is little to none support from the government.
Still, moving now means you can exchange your Euros to Dollars at a very high rate, making the first steps in the US a little easier.
Sevac brought an good point: it's very important to find the job you really like to do in the United States because you going to spend larger part of your life working. Forget 36-hour workweek; 40 hours is a full-time standard, and if you are going to land yourself in high-tech industry, often overtime will be expected (and if you're going to be on salary, this overtime will be unpaid). When I was looking for a job, in one company I was casually told during the interview that many engineers work 60-hour workweeks - "that's the cornerstone of their success". Are you the kind of person who "lives to work"? I have two and a half week paid vacation time per year (and my boss will likely squirm if I take all these days in a row). My father in law in Germany has 6 week vacation time per year.
Another thing to consider is where do you want to live geographically. American society, IMHO, is much more conservative and religious than European societies, so even if you choose to live in New England or California you're likely to find yourself on the very left side of the political spectrum. I lived for two years in Cincinnati area, and on Sunday morning the neighborhood was pretty much empty because everybody was in the church. The word "socialist" is an obscenity, and to majority of folks "communism" equals "fascism".
Another thing to consider is whether you're an "urban" or "suburban" person. Let's face it: most likely you won't be able to afford a condo in Manhattan or in Beacon Hill in Boston. If you're looking to buy a house, you're looking at some town in suburbia. Are you cut out for that kind of life? I live two hours from New York and three hours from Boston, and we both miss tremendously the life and spirit of the big city (cultural life; public transportation; people actually walking on the streets and not going from a door to a parked car), even though we are not that far away.
Now, about the home ownership: of course, the positives are obvious, but have you considered the negatives? A house is a never ending project that can not be completed. There's always something to do, something to fix, something to paint. All of your weekends will now be busy mowing grass, blowing and raking leaves, shoveling the snow, etc. - unless you hire someone to do all these things.
Food here is different, too (not "worse", but different). My wife came here from Germany and she missed little things that she was so accustomed to over there and over here they were considered "gourmet" and were only available in boutique food shops. On the other hand, you'll not get better orange juice anywhere on the planet (unless it's fresh-pressed, of course).
There're many other things to consider, but overall... United States is a great place to live. My understanding is that it's easier to find a job here, goods are significantly cheaper here than in Europe (with the exception for groceries), and people overall are very friendly. It's easy to change careers - I did it, my wife did it, other people I know did it. You'll do fine... but you'll miss France anyway - just because it's your home.
Another thing to consider is where do you want to live geographically. American society, IMHO, is much more conservative and religious than European societies, so even if you choose to live in New England or California you're likely to find yourself on the very left side of the political spectrum. I lived for two years in Cincinnati area, and on Sunday morning the neighborhood was pretty much empty because everybody was in the church. The word "socialist" is an obscenity, and to majority of folks "communism" equals "fascism".
Another thing to consider is whether you're an "urban" or "suburban" person. Let's face it: most likely you won't be able to afford a condo in Manhattan or in Beacon Hill in Boston. If you're looking to buy a house, you're looking at some town in suburbia. Are you cut out for that kind of life? I live two hours from New York and three hours from Boston, and we both miss tremendously the life and spirit of the big city (cultural life; public transportation; people actually walking on the streets and not going from a door to a parked car), even though we are not that far away.
Now, about the home ownership: of course, the positives are obvious, but have you considered the negatives? A house is a never ending project that can not be completed. There's always something to do, something to fix, something to paint. All of your weekends will now be busy mowing grass, blowing and raking leaves, shoveling the snow, etc. - unless you hire someone to do all these things.
Food here is different, too (not "worse", but different). My wife came here from Germany and she missed little things that she was so accustomed to over there and over here they were considered "gourmet" and were only available in boutique food shops. On the other hand, you'll not get better orange juice anywhere on the planet (unless it's fresh-pressed, of course).
There're many other things to consider, but overall... United States is a great place to live. My understanding is that it's easier to find a job here, goods are significantly cheaper here than in Europe (with the exception for groceries), and people overall are very friendly. It's easy to change careers - I did it, my wife did it, other people I know did it. You'll do fine... but you'll miss France anyway - just because it's your home.
Oh my gosh! I would never have left France, except that I was on a student visa, so Im horrified to see that someone who can live there their entire life wants to move to the US.
That being said, the US isnt a place to live or anything, its just not as much fun as France. You spend most of your time driving from one place to another, eating like crap (say good buy to fresh fruits and vegetables) and working alot (those are, at least for me, the worst things about the US). I find it interesting that you say you wouldnt be able to afford a house in France, because from what Ive heard, buying a house in the US is fairly expensive. In fact, from my time in France, I would say that life is cheaper in France than the US, even with the exchange rate.
That being said, the US isnt a place to live or anything, its just not as much fun as France. You spend most of your time driving from one place to another, eating like crap (say good buy to fresh fruits and vegetables) and working alot (those are, at least for me, the worst things about the US). I find it interesting that you say you wouldnt be able to afford a house in France, because from what Ive heard, buying a house in the US is fairly expensive. In fact, from my time in France, I would say that life is cheaper in France than the US, even with the exchange rate.
1. What are the pros and cons of moving to and living in the States? At the moment, most things are much cheaper here. We haven't experienced the serious inflation that much of Europe has (from what friends and relatives overseas tell me). This might change, of course. Sevac brought up a good point about the exchange rate, too. You'll have a good initial start.
Otherwise, it depends on where you plan on moving to. Will you live near your wife's family? Ect. Family support is extremely important, I've found. I have numerous French friends (some used to live in Normandy, which is near your original home, if I remember correctly
) , and I will ask them and respond with their answers in a few days. Vegas is actually a really good place to live. There are wonderful neighborhood communities (it's not all flashy lights and loud noise...that's just the strip), good food is available (yes, even by European standards), and the jobs are abundant and don't usually require a degree. There are several community colleges and UNLV is here. I find their rates quite reasonable.
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans? We'd love to have you, of course!
But, think it through if you have roots and connections in France. Moving overseas is a HUGE step, which I'm sure you know. It's easier without children.
Otherwise, it depends on where you plan on moving to. Will you live near your wife's family? Ect. Family support is extremely important, I've found. I have numerous French friends (some used to live in Normandy, which is near your original home, if I remember correctly
) , and I will ask them and respond with their answers in a few days. Vegas is actually a really good place to live. There are wonderful neighborhood communities (it's not all flashy lights and loud noise...that's just the strip), good food is available (yes, even by European standards), and the jobs are abundant and don't usually require a degree. There are several community colleges and UNLV is here. I find their rates quite reasonable.2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans? We'd love to have you, of course!
But, think it through if you have roots and connections in France. Moving overseas is a HUGE step, which I'm sure you know. It's easier without children.
The responses so far seem a bit negative toward the U.S.-- so let me try to give you some of the positives. I used to live in Paris as a student for a couple years. I absolutely adored it. But I am american and I came home.
First off-- the U.S. now has great coffee-- literally there is a starbucks or an espresso royale on every corner. And it is great. Plus we get to take our coffee "to go".
And there are plenty of places where you can get french baguettes!
More seriously, the big difference is a couple things. First off, I think there is alot more opportunity here to get ahead-- easier to own your own home, lots of space. I think it is easier, if you are ambitious, to advance in your career and earn more money. Yes, I think we work harder. In France they have the mandatory shutting down in August of just about everything. Not so here. But, on the flip side things are changing in the sense that there is a lot of flexibility for working at home etc. If you are enterprising in the least bit, you can likely find a lot of opportunities.
It does depend on whether you live in a big city or a small town here. I prefer a small town. The standard of living is great. No real commutes, lots of land, great sense of community. In the larger cities, if you want that cosmopoliltan life style like you have in Paris, you will pay alot. Big city living is pretty much the same in both places.
As the earlier post said--"socialism" is pretty much a bad word here.
But that is because Americans have a real Libertarian streak-- and see government involvement as government intervention. Down side-- no free tuition for your kids and no free medical coverage.
Bottom line for me-- Paris was great in my 20s, single and as a student. But as a professional, married with kids, I much prefer life in the U.S. in a small town.
First off-- the U.S. now has great coffee-- literally there is a starbucks or an espresso royale on every corner. And it is great. Plus we get to take our coffee "to go".
And there are plenty of places where you can get french baguettes!More seriously, the big difference is a couple things. First off, I think there is alot more opportunity here to get ahead-- easier to own your own home, lots of space. I think it is easier, if you are ambitious, to advance in your career and earn more money. Yes, I think we work harder. In France they have the mandatory shutting down in August of just about everything. Not so here. But, on the flip side things are changing in the sense that there is a lot of flexibility for working at home etc. If you are enterprising in the least bit, you can likely find a lot of opportunities.
It does depend on whether you live in a big city or a small town here. I prefer a small town. The standard of living is great. No real commutes, lots of land, great sense of community. In the larger cities, if you want that cosmopoliltan life style like you have in Paris, you will pay alot. Big city living is pretty much the same in both places.
As the earlier post said--"socialism" is pretty much a bad word here.
But that is because Americans have a real Libertarian streak-- and see government involvement as government intervention. Down side-- no free tuition for your kids and no free medical coverage. Bottom line for me-- Paris was great in my 20s, single and as a student. But as a professional, married with kids, I much prefer life in the U.S. in a small town.
I'm pushing thirty, and wished I had lived internationally, but feel I'm past that age, esp. now that I hold a 'good union job' with a pension, and no real opportunity to live anywhere else.
Sometimes I go to this site, and see where else in the US i'd live: http://www.findyourspot.com/
Depending on where you choose, you'll be able to find most of the food you like, esp. in the bigger cities. However, due to our FDA laws, there are certain wonderful French cheeses you'll have to smuggle in.
Sometimes I go to this site, and see where else in the US i'd live: http://www.findyourspot.com/
Depending on where you choose, you'll be able to find most of the food you like, esp. in the bigger cities. However, due to our FDA laws, there are certain wonderful French cheeses you'll have to smuggle in.
Thanks to all of you! I wasn't expecting so many answers. Your responses have given me a new energy in this project and have also comforted me and my wife in our resolution.
mhellgeth
you can still acquire a home with extraordinary surroundings - lush trees and nice yards. Yes, health care has become more expensive, but what your wife could earn with any job would be far and above what insurance premiums and
deductibles would cost
That's right. That's actually a big reason why we want to move : to have a chance to both be working and consequently afford a house!
CruisingRam
Education costs are out of this world and if you don't have health insurance you stand a chance of total economic anihiliation. America has become a very mean place to live in the last couple of years, and is getting meaner
We know these facts, and they make our decision more difficult to make. Right now, we have equal chances to succeed or fail. We have to be careful, keep our hopes up at the same time and not stray away from our goal. Difficult task indeed, but worth it!
Sevac
Seriously, if you are anything like the Frenchmen I know, you should think about your feelings toward a good cuisine. You don't get any good coffee in the States, nor do they have baguettes or any white bread that comes close.
Beyond that I think it is a way of living that you have to get accustomed to. Do you like competition, being the best and doing everything to achieve your goals? Or do you look at work as a means to an end? I think that would be the things to think about. Plus, if you don't get a job in the States, there is little to none support from the government.
Cuisine is one thing. But my life doesn't revolve around fine French cuisine, however good it is. My wife and my in-laws are good cooks, and they're all Americans! Furthermore, I've lived in the US for 6 months, in Las Vegas actually. That was a tremendous experience, a real eye-opener about the States too!
English Horn
Sevac brought an good point: it's very important to find the job you really like to do in the United States because you going to spend larger part of your life working. Forget 36-hour workweek; 40 hours is a full-time standard
35 hours a week is not for me. My profession (salesman) has always included consequent time at work, ranging from 45 to 50 hours a week! So, I know about a heavy workload, believe me!
I agree with you that American society is more religious and more "conservative" than European ones. I have felt the difference many times, while at the same time I never had any problem mingling with people. Some subjects just have to be avoided and all will be fine, I guess
When it comes to a house, I don't mind the work! My wife and I have always been very "homy". It's important for us to have a nice place and we're ready to work hard for it and on it!
Kimpossible
Oh my gosh! I would never have left France, except that I was on a student visa, so Im horrified to see that someone who can live there their entire life wants to move to the US.
That being said, the US isnt a place to live or anything, its just not as much fun as France. You spend most of your time driving from one place to another, eating like crap (say good buy to fresh fruits and vegetables) and working alot (those are, at least for me, the worst things about the US).
I guess beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.
I'm afraid I haven't gotten much of the French fun unfortunately : I was driving from one place to the other because of my different jobs and like I said before, I was working a lot too. Under these conditions, it seems that I am already experiencing the worst America can give without even being there, haha!
Thus being said, I love France. It is my country, my home, however imperfect it is. I have my family and friends here, along with most of my memories. If we move to the US, I will always remain French.
Mrs.Pigpen
Will you live near your wife's family? Ect. Family support is extremely important, I've found. I have numerous French friends (some used to live in Normandy, which is near your original home, if I remember correctly ) , and I will ask them and respond with their answers in a few days. Vegas is actually a really good place to live. There are wonderful neighborhood communities (it's not all flashy lights and loud noise...that's just the strip), good food is available (yes, even by European standards), and the jobs are abundant and don't usually require a degree. There are several community colleges and UNLV is here. I find their rates quite reasonable.
Moving overseas is a HUGE step, which I'm sure you know. It's easier without children.
Thank God, our families are supportive of us, on both sides of the ocean. My in-laws live in VA, near Richmond. It could be a first touchdown for us, since they have a full level in their house that they want to accomodate for us.
What you said about Vegas is quite funny, because we are seriously considering it among several destinations! And yes, UNLV fees are quite low when you look around. When it comes to children, I agree with you that any move is easier when they're not here yet, which is our case.
Last but not least, thanks for your appreciation of my possible "contribution" to America!
hayleyanne
the big difference is a couple things. First off, I think there is alot more opportunity here to get ahead-- easier to own your own home, lots of space. I think it is easier, if you are ambitious, to advance in your career and earn more money. Yes, I think we work harder. In France they have the mandatory shutting down in August of just about everything. Not so here. But, on the flip side things are changing in the sense that there is a lot of flexibility for working at home etc. If you are enterprising in the least bit, you can likely find a lot of opportunities.
It does depend on whether you live in a big city or a small town here. I prefer a small town
You're pointing out the very reason why we want to move : opportunity. We found that France is too traditional and closed for an international couple like us. It's not bad, it's just how people and the system are. We have to find a better place, because we simply want a better life.
A note about holidays : since I started working, I never stayed long enough in a company to benefit from the 5 weeks of paid vacation. The most I ever got was 3 weeks I think. And I simply couldn't take 5 weeks because there's too much work to do, if you want to do it right!
My wife and I like medium-sized towns, but we wouldn't mind living in a big city first to be able to attend university for example.
SWM28WDC
Sometimes I go to this site, and see where else in the US i'd live: http://www.findyourspot.com/
Depending on where you choose, you'll be able to find most of the food you like, esp. in the bigger cities. However, due to our FDA laws, there are certain wonderful French cheeses you'll have to smuggle in.
Your link was awesome, SWM28WDC! I recommend it to everyone, because it's fun and surprising altogether!
When it comes to cheese... arr, you're right! My wife is almost crying out loud at the thought of leaving the stinking cheeses made of raw milk (especially camembert).
mhellgeth
you can still acquire a home with extraordinary surroundings - lush trees and nice yards. Yes, health care has become more expensive, but what your wife could earn with any job would be far and above what insurance premiums and
deductibles would cost
That's right. That's actually a big reason why we want to move : to have a chance to both be working and consequently afford a house!
CruisingRam
Education costs are out of this world and if you don't have health insurance you stand a chance of total economic anihiliation. America has become a very mean place to live in the last couple of years, and is getting meaner
We know these facts, and they make our decision more difficult to make. Right now, we have equal chances to succeed or fail. We have to be careful, keep our hopes up at the same time and not stray away from our goal. Difficult task indeed, but worth it!
Sevac
Seriously, if you are anything like the Frenchmen I know, you should think about your feelings toward a good cuisine. You don't get any good coffee in the States, nor do they have baguettes or any white bread that comes close.
Beyond that I think it is a way of living that you have to get accustomed to. Do you like competition, being the best and doing everything to achieve your goals? Or do you look at work as a means to an end? I think that would be the things to think about. Plus, if you don't get a job in the States, there is little to none support from the government.
Cuisine is one thing. But my life doesn't revolve around fine French cuisine, however good it is. My wife and my in-laws are good cooks, and they're all Americans! Furthermore, I've lived in the US for 6 months, in Las Vegas actually. That was a tremendous experience, a real eye-opener about the States too!
English Horn
Sevac brought an good point: it's very important to find the job you really like to do in the United States because you going to spend larger part of your life working. Forget 36-hour workweek; 40 hours is a full-time standard
35 hours a week is not for me. My profession (salesman) has always included consequent time at work, ranging from 45 to 50 hours a week! So, I know about a heavy workload, believe me!
I agree with you that American society is more religious and more "conservative" than European ones. I have felt the difference many times, while at the same time I never had any problem mingling with people. Some subjects just have to be avoided and all will be fine, I guess
When it comes to a house, I don't mind the work! My wife and I have always been very "homy". It's important for us to have a nice place and we're ready to work hard for it and on it!
Kimpossible
Oh my gosh! I would never have left France, except that I was on a student visa, so Im horrified to see that someone who can live there their entire life wants to move to the US.
That being said, the US isnt a place to live or anything, its just not as much fun as France. You spend most of your time driving from one place to another, eating like crap (say good buy to fresh fruits and vegetables) and working alot (those are, at least for me, the worst things about the US).
I guess beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.
I'm afraid I haven't gotten much of the French fun unfortunately : I was driving from one place to the other because of my different jobs and like I said before, I was working a lot too. Under these conditions, it seems that I am already experiencing the worst America can give without even being there, haha! Thus being said, I love France. It is my country, my home, however imperfect it is. I have my family and friends here, along with most of my memories. If we move to the US, I will always remain French.
Mrs.Pigpen
Will you live near your wife's family? Ect. Family support is extremely important, I've found. I have numerous French friends (some used to live in Normandy, which is near your original home, if I remember correctly ) , and I will ask them and respond with their answers in a few days. Vegas is actually a really good place to live. There are wonderful neighborhood communities (it's not all flashy lights and loud noise...that's just the strip), good food is available (yes, even by European standards), and the jobs are abundant and don't usually require a degree. There are several community colleges and UNLV is here. I find their rates quite reasonable.
Moving overseas is a HUGE step, which I'm sure you know. It's easier without children.
Thank God, our families are supportive of us, on both sides of the ocean. My in-laws live in VA, near Richmond. It could be a first touchdown for us, since they have a full level in their house that they want to accomodate for us.
What you said about Vegas is quite funny, because we are seriously considering it among several destinations! And yes, UNLV fees are quite low when you look around. When it comes to children, I agree with you that any move is easier when they're not here yet, which is our case.
Last but not least, thanks for your appreciation of my possible "contribution" to America!
hayleyanne
the big difference is a couple things. First off, I think there is alot more opportunity here to get ahead-- easier to own your own home, lots of space. I think it is easier, if you are ambitious, to advance in your career and earn more money. Yes, I think we work harder. In France they have the mandatory shutting down in August of just about everything. Not so here. But, on the flip side things are changing in the sense that there is a lot of flexibility for working at home etc. If you are enterprising in the least bit, you can likely find a lot of opportunities.
It does depend on whether you live in a big city or a small town here. I prefer a small town
You're pointing out the very reason why we want to move : opportunity. We found that France is too traditional and closed for an international couple like us. It's not bad, it's just how people and the system are. We have to find a better place, because we simply want a better life.
A note about holidays : since I started working, I never stayed long enough in a company to benefit from the 5 weeks of paid vacation. The most I ever got was 3 weeks I think. And I simply couldn't take 5 weeks because there's too much work to do, if you want to do it right!
My wife and I like medium-sized towns, but we wouldn't mind living in a big city first to be able to attend university for example.
SWM28WDC
Sometimes I go to this site, and see where else in the US i'd live: http://www.findyourspot.com/
Depending on where you choose, you'll be able to find most of the food you like, esp. in the bigger cities. However, due to our FDA laws, there are certain wonderful French cheeses you'll have to smuggle in.
Your link was awesome, SWM28WDC! I recommend it to everyone, because it's fun and surprising altogether!
When it comes to cheese... arr, you're right! My wife is almost crying out loud at the thought of leaving the stinking cheeses made of raw milk (especially camembert).
Horyok, I'm afraid I have no information to offer you. I just want to say, Please come without reservation. You will be welcome.
A reserved and unfriendly person had to move to a new town. He asked a storekeeper if the people in this town were generally stand-offish and cold. The storekeeper said yes, they usually are.
A hopeful and friendly person also had to move to this same town. He asked the same storekeeper if the people in this town were generally friendly and helpful. The storekeeper said yes, they usually are.
In a large way, the way we are received depends upon our expectations. I hope you have great expectations for living here, because you will find people of like mind who will make your life here happier.
A reserved and unfriendly person had to move to a new town. He asked a storekeeper if the people in this town were generally stand-offish and cold. The storekeeper said yes, they usually are.
A hopeful and friendly person also had to move to this same town. He asked the same storekeeper if the people in this town were generally friendly and helpful. The storekeeper said yes, they usually are.
In a large way, the way we are received depends upon our expectations. I hope you have great expectations for living here, because you will find people of like mind who will make your life here happier.
When it comes to moving, you have to take advice with a grain of salt.
I am nearing retirement, and read the magazine articles about where to retire based on this factor, that factor, and every factor except the one that is most important, being close to the grandchildren. So make a list of the important things to YOU and go from there.
There are plenty of small to medium towns that have large town amenities, especially if the small town is also a college town, and/or reasonably close to larger towns/cities that will have those features that mean a lot to you, but not all that often.
I am retiring to Logan, Utah. Nice climate, most of the time. It is in a valley between the Salt Lake Valley area and the Bear Lake valley area.
Logan has most of my wants and needs, going east gets me to the bigger city when I need to, going west gets me to a nice big lake that isn't overcrowded yet, and is perfect for boating, fishing, sailing, hiking in surrounding mountains, and in wintertime, for those nuts enought to go out in the cold, cross country skiing, snowmobiling, etc.
There are places like that all over the USA.
But for you, I expect the job market is of primary consideration. And counselling can be done just about anywhere. Last I heard, tho, it doesn't pay all that well without professional credentials. More the reason to have a college nearby, so you can continue your education.
If you believe what you read in the paper, the USA could use some more mental health professionals.
I am nearing retirement, and read the magazine articles about where to retire based on this factor, that factor, and every factor except the one that is most important, being close to the grandchildren. So make a list of the important things to YOU and go from there.
There are plenty of small to medium towns that have large town amenities, especially if the small town is also a college town, and/or reasonably close to larger towns/cities that will have those features that mean a lot to you, but not all that often.
I am retiring to Logan, Utah. Nice climate, most of the time. It is in a valley between the Salt Lake Valley area and the Bear Lake valley area.
Logan has most of my wants and needs, going east gets me to the bigger city when I need to, going west gets me to a nice big lake that isn't overcrowded yet, and is perfect for boating, fishing, sailing, hiking in surrounding mountains, and in wintertime, for those nuts enought to go out in the cold, cross country skiing, snowmobiling, etc.
There are places like that all over the USA.
But for you, I expect the job market is of primary consideration. And counselling can be done just about anywhere. Last I heard, tho, it doesn't pay all that well without professional credentials. More the reason to have a college nearby, so you can continue your education.
If you believe what you read in the paper, the USA could use some more mental health professionals.
It's tangential, but only this weekend there was an article about French people living and working in Britain
It may be second best, if the USA is really what you're after, but if it's just the economic factors you want the economy is doing reasonably well here. It may also be slightly less of a cultural wrench (though pehaps that's not so much of a consideration)
Just a thought. Not even a suggestion - I only posted it because it was a somewhat relevant story.
It just struck a chord because many of the French people interviewed in the article cited the freer economy and more multi-cultural & tolerant society as reasons they liked it here, and those seem to be some of the things you and your wife are looking for.
It may be second best, if the USA is really what you're after, but if it's just the economic factors you want the economy is doing reasonably well here. It may also be slightly less of a cultural wrench (though pehaps that's not so much of a consideration)
Just a thought. Not even a suggestion - I only posted it because it was a somewhat relevant story.
It just struck a chord because many of the French people interviewed in the article cited the freer economy and more multi-cultural & tolerant society as reasons they liked it here, and those seem to be some of the things you and your wife are looking for.
I suppose my advice may a bit one-sided seeing as I have never so much as step foot outside US territory but I think it's still valuable.
I believe it would be much more valuable if you were to give a rough idea of where you might plan to live if you decide to move.
Bustling (and chilly) east-coast metropolis?
Warm, sunny (read expensive) west-coast?
Cozy, quiet (mostly, avoid the inner-city) South?
I guess my favorite thing about the US is the sheer range of environments and the accessibility of travel to most of them. If you like to drive it would be a great help.
I would consider climate (after economics of course) because there is something interesting about just about every region of the country. Try Florida, be a beach bum...
I believe it would be much more valuable if you were to give a rough idea of where you might plan to live if you decide to move.
Bustling (and chilly) east-coast metropolis?
Warm, sunny (read expensive) west-coast?
Cozy, quiet (mostly, avoid the inner-city) South?
I guess my favorite thing about the US is the sheer range of environments and the accessibility of travel to most of them. If you like to drive it would be a great help.
I would consider climate (after economics of course) because there is something interesting about just about every region of the country. Try Florida, be a beach bum...
You could do much worse than Virginia, I was born and grew up just outside of Richmond. The overall economy is generally strong, due to a large amount of Federal spending in the state. The state universities are also a great bargain: University of Virginia, Virginia Tech (go Hokies!), William & Mary, James Madison University, etc.; Public Schools in the suburbs of Richmond are fairly good as well.
Charlottesville has the big small town aura, Blacksburg & Harrisonburg are smaller, but still large 'small towns'.
Charlottesville has the big small town aura, Blacksburg & Harrisonburg are smaller, but still large 'small towns'.
I'm originally from Lithuania, and even though my country is in dire straits right now, i think i still enjoy living there more. For me, personally, the change was very harsh, and after almost 5 years, i should say that I am still having a hard time adjusting. Yes, the education is much easier here as far as I know, and also depends on how hard u want to make it for yourself. The only drawback is its cost. There are many opinions that u have to face every day like the patriotism of America which i dont mind at all, but i think most of the world views that kind of patriotism as "being full of themselves". I also see a lot of republicans who would have rather nuked Iraq for the 9/11... which actually angers me quite a lot because i view them just as bad if not worse than the terrorists...there are a lot of customs u have to get used to and the morals are totally different...here, u actually have to work amazingly hard to get a little better standard of living than in Europe. I think that if people worked just as much in Europe as they do in US, it would be better to stay in Europe. I guess everyone has a personal opinion, but I think that US is worsening economically, spending around 8mil per hour on that war, while people are suffering at home. If u wanna try your luck, come to US and see how u can get along...if u dont like it, go back to Europe...I know its not that simple, bu it is worth a try.
QUOTE
You're pointing out the very reason why we want to move : opportunity. We found that France is too traditional and closed for an international couple like us. It's not bad, it's just how people and the system are. We have to find a better place, because we simply want a better life.
A note about holidays : since I started working, I never stayed long enough in a company to benefit from the 5 weeks of paid vacation. The most I ever got was 3 weeks I think. And I simply couldn't take 5 weeks because there's too much work to do, if you want to do it right!
My wife and I like medium-sized towns, but we wouldn't mind living in a big city first to be able to attend university for example.
A note about holidays : since I started working, I never stayed long enough in a company to benefit from the 5 weeks of paid vacation. The most I ever got was 3 weeks I think. And I simply couldn't take 5 weeks because there's too much work to do, if you want to do it right!
My wife and I like medium-sized towns, but we wouldn't mind living in a big city first to be able to attend university for example.
You would love the college towns here-- you can get the best of both worlds-- a cosmopolitan influence with more of a sane life style. I would suggest looking at Ann Arbor, Michigan (University of Michigan) -- Ann Arbor is a wonderful city and the U-Mich is a great state university. Madison, Wisconsin is also very nice. Cost of living is a bit higher in college towns but you would likely enjoy them very much.
You mentioned Richmond, VA as a possibility. That too sounds good. The climate there is fairly mild.
And if you never got to enjoy the 5 week vacation breaks in France-- you won't find it a hardship here. And like I said, there is a lot of opportunity and a lot of flexibility here that you will appreciate.
Bil55AZ
We are definitely going to "improve" my credentials by making sure I get a degree in a college first and foremost. So, finding an education is a key to our decision-making and place to live in too.
I liked your joke about "what you read in the paper" by the way!
Julian
You are correct Julian : The UK is a possible location too. We're not considering it at the moment, but it could be a very good second-level solution indeed!
turnea
We actually have ideas! Las Vegas, Seattle, Salt Lake City and Phoenix/Tempe are among our first choices.
SWM28WDC / hayleyanne
Virginia is a good idea; I personally like the place, but my wife would like to try new territories before considering this location, if possible. We'll see what the future has for us!
Darenas
We are definitely considering all options and ends in our choices, whilst weighing their consequences carefully. It's never easy to move... I changed houses 16 times since I was born and my wife is just about the same as me. I had a couple of foreign experiences too since I lived in London for a few years and in Las Vegas for 6 months. All these experiences (local and international) were interesting and fulfilling, but all had their difficulties too. I guess it's just something you learn in time!
QUOTE
But for you, I expect the job market is of primary consideration. And counselling can be done just about anywhere. Last I heard, tho, it doesn't pay all that well without professional credentials. More the reason to have a college nearby, so you can continue your education.
If you believe what you read in the paper, the USA could use some more mental health professionals.
If you believe what you read in the paper, the USA could use some more mental health professionals.
We are definitely going to "improve" my credentials by making sure I get a degree in a college first and foremost. So, finding an education is a key to our decision-making and place to live in too.
I liked your joke about "what you read in the paper" by the way!
Julian
QUOTE
It just struck a chord because many of the French people interviewed in the article cited the freer economy and more multi-cultural & tolerant society as reasons they liked it here, and those seem to be some of the things you and your wife are looking for.
You are correct Julian : The UK is a possible location too. We're not considering it at the moment, but it could be a very good second-level solution indeed!
turnea
QUOTE
I guess my favorite thing about the US is the sheer range of environments and the accessibility of travel to most of them. If you like to drive it would be a great help.
I would consider climate (after economics of course) because there is something interesting about just about every region of the country. Try Florida, be a beach bum...
I would consider climate (after economics of course) because there is something interesting about just about every region of the country. Try Florida, be a beach bum...
We actually have ideas! Las Vegas, Seattle, Salt Lake City and Phoenix/Tempe are among our first choices.
SWM28WDC / hayleyanne
Virginia is a good idea; I personally like the place, but my wife would like to try new territories before considering this location, if possible. We'll see what the future has for us!
Darenas
QUOTE
If u wanna try your luck, come to US and see how u can get along...if u dont like it, go back to Europe...I know its not that simple, bu it is worth a try.
We are definitely considering all options and ends in our choices, whilst weighing their consequences carefully. It's never easy to move... I changed houses 16 times since I was born and my wife is just about the same as me. I had a couple of foreign experiences too since I lived in London for a few years and in Las Vegas for 6 months. All these experiences (local and international) were interesting and fulfilling, but all had their difficulties too. I guess it's just something you learn in time!
We actually have ideas! Las Vegas, Seattle, Salt Lake City and Phoenix/Tempe are among our first choices.
I have lived near Seattle. I now live near Phoenix.
In Seattle, expect to grow webs between your toes and green mold on the north side of everything. Portland, OR is about the same. Don't believe the brochures showing clear, blue skies in that area. It only happens a few weeks out of the year. Everything is green, even the sidewalks, again, the mold. It RAINS too much, and has a high suicide rate due to too many overcast days.
Phoenix is not bad, lots of sunshine, but high temperatures May thru September, and really bad in July/August during our "monsoons". We get a little rain, and a lot of humidity. Not as much humidity as someplace wet, but at 100 degrees plus, it doesn't take much humidity to make you feel it.
Las Vegas is a bit nicer than Phoenix, has similar climate, just not quite so bad in the summers. No income tax in Nevada.
Salt Lake City has bad rush hour traffic and a lot of the drivers are looking to kill or be killed. If you go there, try to live where you can get to school, work, etc. without getting into too much of the traffic. I drive from Phoenix to northern Utah several times a year and try my best to go thru SLC either before or after rush hour(s) traffic.
I have lived near Seattle. I now live near Phoenix.
In Seattle, expect to grow webs between your toes and green mold on the north side of everything. Portland, OR is about the same. Don't believe the brochures showing clear, blue skies in that area. It only happens a few weeks out of the year. Everything is green, even the sidewalks, again, the mold. It RAINS too much, and has a high suicide rate due to too many overcast days.
Phoenix is not bad, lots of sunshine, but high temperatures May thru September, and really bad in July/August during our "monsoons". We get a little rain, and a lot of humidity. Not as much humidity as someplace wet, but at 100 degrees plus, it doesn't take much humidity to make you feel it.
Las Vegas is a bit nicer than Phoenix, has similar climate, just not quite so bad in the summers. No income tax in Nevada.
Salt Lake City has bad rush hour traffic and a lot of the drivers are looking to kill or be killed. If you go there, try to live where you can get to school, work, etc. without getting into too much of the traffic. I drive from Phoenix to northern Utah several times a year and try my best to go thru SLC either before or after rush hour(s) traffic.
QUOTE(Bill55AZ @ Jan 19 2005, 11:42 PM)
We actually have ideas! Las Vegas, Seattle, Salt Lake City and Phoenix/Tempe are among our first choices.
I have lived near Seattle. I now live near Phoenix.
In Seattle, expect to grow webs between your toes and green mold on the north side of everything. Portland, OR is about the same. Don't believe the brochures showing clear, blue skies in that area. It only happens a few weeks out of the year. Everything is green, even the sidewalks, again, the mold. It RAINS too much, and has a high suicide rate due to too many overcast days.
Phoenix is not bad, lots of sunshine, but high temperatures May thru September, and really bad in July/August during our "monsoons". We get a little rain, and a lot of humidity. Not as much humidity as someplace wet, but at 100 degrees plus, it doesn't take much humidity to make you feel it.
Las Vegas is a bit nicer than Phoenix, has similar climate, just not quite so bad in the summers. No income tax in Nevada.
Salt Lake City has bad rush hour traffic and a lot of the drivers are looking to kill or be killed. If you go there, try to live where you can get to school, work, etc. without getting into too much of the traffic. I drive from Phoenix to northern Utah several times a year and try my best to go thru SLC either before or after rush hour(s) traffic.
I have lived near Seattle. I now live near Phoenix.
In Seattle, expect to grow webs between your toes and green mold on the north side of everything. Portland, OR is about the same. Don't believe the brochures showing clear, blue skies in that area. It only happens a few weeks out of the year. Everything is green, even the sidewalks, again, the mold. It RAINS too much, and has a high suicide rate due to too many overcast days.
Phoenix is not bad, lots of sunshine, but high temperatures May thru September, and really bad in July/August during our "monsoons". We get a little rain, and a lot of humidity. Not as much humidity as someplace wet, but at 100 degrees plus, it doesn't take much humidity to make you feel it.
Las Vegas is a bit nicer than Phoenix, has similar climate, just not quite so bad in the summers. No income tax in Nevada.
Salt Lake City has bad rush hour traffic and a lot of the drivers are looking to kill or be killed. If you go there, try to live where you can get to school, work, etc. without getting into too much of the traffic. I drive from Phoenix to northern Utah several times a year and try my best to go thru SLC either before or after rush hour(s) traffic.
Thank you for the serious comparison you gave us here, Bill. It helps to know a little bit more about the places you're considering! The no income tax in Vegas is worth thinking about, that's for sure!
We currently live in a small town called Evreux, only about 1 hour away from Paris in car or train... the weather depends very much on the ocean, which grants us with a temperate climate all year long, but very rainy and gray too.
We hope to find more sun wherever we go!I lived in Vegas for 6 months and my wife lived in Phoenix for 8 months... so we're teaching each other about these two cities
I'm realizing as I write that we're actually narrowing our choices already, haha!!!
I guess it's just a matter of opinion, but i couldnt live in Vegas...I'm personally not that attracted to a city where there is so many things morally wrong, and people actually enjoy the sins to the fullest. I have to admit that the mountains are beautiful and all, but id rather live somewhere near the nature. once again, it is a matter of opinion, but id rather advice something closer to New York, Boston, or Chicago, where i believe there are more opportunities for the newcomers from europe, and there is a four season weather. since i like winter and im used to that weather since im European myself, im sure it wouldnt be a bad choice to start in any of these cities. Anyways, just throwing my opinion out... do what you wish with it. 
I know this opinion may be a bit biased, but I'd suggest moving to Austin, TX. It has pretty much everything: Big Tech sector, music, arts, Univ. of Texas, hill country, lots of great people, and it's growing. Although you might not be able to live in the city limits, there's lots of areas around there which are growing. The only bad things about Austin is the heat, the growing traffic problems (where aren't there traffic problems?), the humidity (to some), and perhaps the overall conservativeness of the rest of Texas. Of all the places I've lived (Colorado and Indiana) I would definitely recommend Austin for it's diversity and culture. Although I'm not sure if there is a lot of hiring going on at the moment, Austin does have many businesses headquartered or major divisions stationed there.
QUOTE(Horyok @ Jan 15 2005, 09:54 PM)
1. What are the pros and cons of moving to and living in the States?
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans?
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans?
1. The pros are the variety of culture, environment, climate, and lifestyle that you can pursue. Want to live on the Tundra? Desert? Plains? Mountains? Tropics? You can make your choice here in America. The cons are that you will not have "free" medical care although nearly all employers offer very good health care plans. The other con (perhaps) is that you won't be able to smoke wherever you want, you won't be able to bring your dog into a restaurant, and you won't find as much good French food and finally, you'll probably gain weight.
2. You can bring the good that you have within you. I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but America, in contrast to most nations, is very multicultural. You can even enhance that part of your experience here by living in an areas where there are people from many nations (most college towns or areas with a high level of technical job opportunities). There is no question that anyone, independent of their debate style or political opinion, can find others who share their views in this country.
QUOTE(Sevac @ Jan 16 2005, 05:49 AM)
That a Frenchmen is actually considering this is a shock to me...
Seriously, if you are anything like the Frenchmen I know, you should think about your feelings toward a good cuisine. You don't get any good coffee in the States, nor do they have baguettes or any white bread that comes close.
Seriously, if you are anything like the Frenchmen I know, you should think about your feelings toward a good cuisine. You don't get any good coffee in the States, nor do they have baguettes or any white bread that comes close.
I'm pretty curious about your comment about the food available in the US. Have you traveled here? Where? Where did you eat?
I live in small midwestern US town about 5 minutes outside of a city of about 100,000 people, hardly a "major" city.
Yet, I can eat at ethic restaurants representing just about every cuisine on earth inside of a 20 minute drive. I can also purchase top notch bread, ethnic specialty foods, and more types of coffee than I can count.
Here are just a few examples of the shopping choices beyond the average "supermarket".
http://www.hillers.com
http://www.zingermans.com
I have worked for European companies for the past 8 years. In both cases, the impression that you presented was shared by them; since their exposure to US coffee was what they were served at the hotel, the same was true of the bread, and the beer was represented by Miller Lite.
After they got more comfortable over here, they realized that their choices were pretty much endless... if they took the time to look.
Any of the "big" cities in the US have even more choices. In fact, most of them have areas where you might not even realize you were in the United States unless you looked at the tags on the cars.
You can make it anywhere in this country, if you want to....
If education is a concern, then decide on what type of education you want, and find the best you can afford, then move there. If its hospitality, then the clear choice of the four at the top of your list is Las Vegas. It has one of the finest hotel schools in the world. Oceanography or forestry? I'd suggest Seattle over Vegas.
I have only one suggestion if you come here: don't badmouth it and say that France is better.
Why would I make such a suggestion? Is it because I'm a wild eyed patriot? Is it because I think France is the armpit of Eurasia? No, neither of those is why.
Its because I don't want folks thinking you're an idiot.
Only an idiot, given a choice, (which you clearly have), would choose the worse of his options.... There are some things in France that are better than here (bicycle racing, Rally racing, and high speed trains come to mind), and others that are worse. You can make such limited claims as to the superiority of France, but as a general matter, your actions will indicate which you think is better. You may conclude that France is better than America for you. Cool beans, if so, don't put yourself into the unenviable position wherein your actions do not conform to your words...
BTW, the best place in the world to eat is New York City, followed by Los Angeles, then probably London, then ???. Of the cities on your short list, I'd say its a toss up between Seattle and Las Vegas. The best place in the world to eat French food is likely Paris (perhaps another city in France, n'est pas?), but I'd wager that the breadth of variety and quality of Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Thai, Salvadoran, Bulgarian, Indian, Lebanese, Morrocan, Persian, Vietnamese, German, American Indian, Peruvian, Cuban, Russian, Italian (Northern and Southern), Polish, Hawaiian, etc, etc, food in Paris pales in comparison to NYC. (All of the above are available where I live, much smaller than NYC or LA) Oops, forgot Korean and Phillipino, between the two of which there are probably a dozen restaraunts within 1 mile of where I work. Nor did I include the various American cuisines. Cajun, California fusion, Tex-Mex, Southern, Soulfood, New England, etc...
Enjoy making your decision, you are fortunate to have such a choice.
If education is a concern, then decide on what type of education you want, and find the best you can afford, then move there. If its hospitality, then the clear choice of the four at the top of your list is Las Vegas. It has one of the finest hotel schools in the world. Oceanography or forestry? I'd suggest Seattle over Vegas.
I have only one suggestion if you come here: don't badmouth it and say that France is better.
Why would I make such a suggestion? Is it because I'm a wild eyed patriot? Is it because I think France is the armpit of Eurasia? No, neither of those is why.
Its because I don't want folks thinking you're an idiot.
Only an idiot, given a choice, (which you clearly have), would choose the worse of his options.... There are some things in France that are better than here (bicycle racing, Rally racing, and high speed trains come to mind), and others that are worse. You can make such limited claims as to the superiority of France, but as a general matter, your actions will indicate which you think is better. You may conclude that France is better than America for you. Cool beans, if so, don't put yourself into the unenviable position wherein your actions do not conform to your words...
BTW, the best place in the world to eat is New York City, followed by Los Angeles, then probably London, then ???. Of the cities on your short list, I'd say its a toss up between Seattle and Las Vegas. The best place in the world to eat French food is likely Paris (perhaps another city in France, n'est pas?), but I'd wager that the breadth of variety and quality of Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Thai, Salvadoran, Bulgarian, Indian, Lebanese, Morrocan, Persian, Vietnamese, German, American Indian, Peruvian, Cuban, Russian, Italian (Northern and Southern), Polish, Hawaiian, etc, etc, food in Paris pales in comparison to NYC. (All of the above are available where I live, much smaller than NYC or LA) Oops, forgot Korean and Phillipino, between the two of which there are probably a dozen restaraunts within 1 mile of where I work. Nor did I include the various American cuisines. Cajun, California fusion, Tex-Mex, Southern, Soulfood, New England, etc...
Enjoy making your decision, you are fortunate to have such a choice.
Horyok..heyas
I made that same move about 3 yrs ago. I was very hesitant about it and it was at first being pushed by my husband's desires..after we realized in Switzerland we would be living on the dole in a month I wanted to relocate to the UK..but my husband was more than through with Europe as a whole. In the end I am really happy about the decision and I can't say I ever hated the idea of returning to the US...but I had my worries.
I consoled our move with much of the same advantages you spoke of in your first post..also I have children and I don't know if you and your wife have any of plan too..but the fact my kids were growing up without their grandparents was an additional reason for me.
I also knew I would never have a job In Switzerland..and I too never completed College but I think there was a lot more stacked against me than just that. One being a woman with children. The school system in CH is um very traditional and it is a nightmare to try and arrange for the children coming home at all different times etc. for working mums. I had a large group of friends and knew of only 2 women who worked ..and one was part time.
I was confused by one of your comments tho...and that we have to fear credit reports! Are you concerned about not having credit in the US? Because if so that is a real major concern. We had none..all our grown up financial business had taken place in CH and here in the US they just do not care about it one bit. In fact I think it is much harder to be here with no credit than with bad credit. So yes then I agree this will be a major obstacle at first.
Yet if your expressing concern about how much influence a credit history has over here I must completely disagree with you. In Switzerland your credit reports are maintained by the govt. Anytime you move you must de-register yourself from your town's local residence registry..by law mind you..and again by law you have a set amount of days to register yourself in your new town. All of this involves each town's registry to share and disclose all your info they have on you..one being your credit history. So one mistake, one poor choice and it will follow you the rest of your life. This is so unlike here in the US where you can just pack up and create a new life.
I also can completely understand your attitudes about owning a home..it was something I too felt would never occur for us in CH..and I think housing prices are a bit higher there because my husband worked with a few men in Basel who lived in France just so they could in fact own their own home. So this too was a motivation for us. And even with the warnings of rising house prices here..they still are a bargain compared to most European prices.
Finally I always enjoy these kind of discussions because I always get a laugh from the preconceived and somewhat mythical perceptions people have of Europe..
First Horyok's complaint about medical costs..well in CH I had to pay 600CHF a month just for medical coverage.then whatever wasn't covered on top of that and there was always something not being covered. Yes in fact not every country in Europe gives out free medical. And I felt almost every encounter I had with the Swiss health care system was if best ....scary. True they treated me like a human and not like a product on the belt..but they reminded me a little too much of my human mortality for comfort. I pay so much less now..and I have dental. Dental insurance was not even offered in CH except for children who "passed" or were accepted. Every adult I knew took these bizarre trips to Hungary to stay at dentist hotels for 3 days and get their teeth worked on.
Then the belief all Europeans get to lux about for 4- 5 weeks a yr. Yes true as long as you are a full fledged citizen of the country.. If your one of the many hoards of "guest workers" many European countries import in the do their dirty work well..it is much like it is here. They work endlessly and for little recognition. I know in Switzerland you can often tell a person's profession by their ethnicity. My husband's job one that was almost entirely an American profession in CH is considered white collar work here is far less prestigious in CH and thus is treated as such. We thought living in Europe would really serve our family's desires..especially with the attention to time off and the recognition of one's private home life. Nope not for my husband the lowly "janitor" as he called himself. Not one holiday went unquestioned..uninterrupted or just plain unapproved. I found myself raising two small children on my own. Not to mention for less money then what a Swiss citizen would receive. This is a big problem in Europe not just CH alone..I think it is disgraceful how many foreign workers are treated and even more disturbing that they apparently tend to keep their status as such for generations.
Oh and the no good food in the US statement...bah!..you really need to get out more.
Edied to add...
I wanted to actually answer a question too.
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans? Well I don't really know you but as a European I think the "good" you will bring to the US is you will actually know just how easy it is to live here. I think it gives you a good appreciation and a good understanding of how much we have afforded to us here.
I made that same move about 3 yrs ago. I was very hesitant about it and it was at first being pushed by my husband's desires..after we realized in Switzerland we would be living on the dole in a month I wanted to relocate to the UK..but my husband was more than through with Europe as a whole. In the end I am really happy about the decision and I can't say I ever hated the idea of returning to the US...but I had my worries.
I consoled our move with much of the same advantages you spoke of in your first post..also I have children and I don't know if you and your wife have any of plan too..but the fact my kids were growing up without their grandparents was an additional reason for me.
I also knew I would never have a job In Switzerland..and I too never completed College but I think there was a lot more stacked against me than just that. One being a woman with children. The school system in CH is um very traditional and it is a nightmare to try and arrange for the children coming home at all different times etc. for working mums. I had a large group of friends and knew of only 2 women who worked ..and one was part time.
I was confused by one of your comments tho...and that we have to fear credit reports! Are you concerned about not having credit in the US? Because if so that is a real major concern. We had none..all our grown up financial business had taken place in CH and here in the US they just do not care about it one bit. In fact I think it is much harder to be here with no credit than with bad credit. So yes then I agree this will be a major obstacle at first.
Yet if your expressing concern about how much influence a credit history has over here I must completely disagree with you. In Switzerland your credit reports are maintained by the govt. Anytime you move you must de-register yourself from your town's local residence registry..by law mind you..and again by law you have a set amount of days to register yourself in your new town. All of this involves each town's registry to share and disclose all your info they have on you..one being your credit history. So one mistake, one poor choice and it will follow you the rest of your life. This is so unlike here in the US where you can just pack up and create a new life.
I also can completely understand your attitudes about owning a home..it was something I too felt would never occur for us in CH..and I think housing prices are a bit higher there because my husband worked with a few men in Basel who lived in France just so they could in fact own their own home. So this too was a motivation for us. And even with the warnings of rising house prices here..they still are a bargain compared to most European prices.
Finally I always enjoy these kind of discussions because I always get a laugh from the preconceived and somewhat mythical perceptions people have of Europe..
First Horyok's complaint about medical costs..well in CH I had to pay 600CHF a month just for medical coverage.then whatever wasn't covered on top of that and there was always something not being covered. Yes in fact not every country in Europe gives out free medical. And I felt almost every encounter I had with the Swiss health care system was if best ....scary. True they treated me like a human and not like a product on the belt..but they reminded me a little too much of my human mortality for comfort. I pay so much less now..and I have dental. Dental insurance was not even offered in CH except for children who "passed" or were accepted. Every adult I knew took these bizarre trips to Hungary to stay at dentist hotels for 3 days and get their teeth worked on.
Then the belief all Europeans get to lux about for 4- 5 weeks a yr. Yes true as long as you are a full fledged citizen of the country.. If your one of the many hoards of "guest workers" many European countries import in the do their dirty work well..it is much like it is here. They work endlessly and for little recognition. I know in Switzerland you can often tell a person's profession by their ethnicity. My husband's job one that was almost entirely an American profession in CH is considered white collar work here is far less prestigious in CH and thus is treated as such. We thought living in Europe would really serve our family's desires..especially with the attention to time off and the recognition of one's private home life. Nope not for my husband the lowly "janitor" as he called himself. Not one holiday went unquestioned..uninterrupted or just plain unapproved. I found myself raising two small children on my own. Not to mention for less money then what a Swiss citizen would receive. This is a big problem in Europe not just CH alone..I think it is disgraceful how many foreign workers are treated and even more disturbing that they apparently tend to keep their status as such for generations.
Oh and the no good food in the US statement...bah!..you really need to get out more.
Edied to add...
I wanted to actually answer a question too.
2. For those of you who know my personality as a debater on AD, what good do you think I could bring to Americans? Well I don't really know you but as a European I think the "good" you will bring to the US is you will actually know just how easy it is to live here. I think it gives you a good appreciation and a good understanding of how much we have afforded to us here.
I am going to add my own biased opinion and suggest Staten Island, New York. I know it isnt well known...but Staten Island is the wonderful borough of New York City. It is a great island (the Borough of Parks) that is growing in population and becoming quite self-sustaining.
It is mostly middle class (which explains why it votes overwhelmingly Republican?
) But anyway, some cool things are happening over here. We finally got the world's largest garbage dump closed a few years ago. We are getting a NASCAR track soon (no matter how much a lot of people are resisting) and it is a great place to live. Its just a ferry ride away from New York City which is always great if you want to shop, see a Broadway play, or find a job. Crime is very low and taxes...well...we pay NYC taxes.
Staten Island has been a great place for me and it will be as long as a Republican is mayor. Now i know what everyone is thinking...that figures. But it really is the truth. Before Rudy Giuliani, Staten Island was the neglected borough. Mostly because the Island is conservative and didnt vote for the Dem mayor. So we would get the short end of the stick. There were talks of secession from NYC a while back because of it. (which i kind of support, if Staten Island became an independent city, it would be the 3rd largest in the state behind NYC and Albany)
So just bragging about my place, hope you make the right choice.
It is mostly middle class (which explains why it votes overwhelmingly Republican?
) But anyway, some cool things are happening over here. We finally got the world's largest garbage dump closed a few years ago. We are getting a NASCAR track soon (no matter how much a lot of people are resisting) and it is a great place to live. Its just a ferry ride away from New York City which is always great if you want to shop, see a Broadway play, or find a job. Crime is very low and taxes...well...we pay NYC taxes.Staten Island has been a great place for me and it will be as long as a Republican is mayor. Now i know what everyone is thinking...that figures. But it really is the truth. Before Rudy Giuliani, Staten Island was the neglected borough. Mostly because the Island is conservative and didnt vote for the Dem mayor. So we would get the short end of the stick. There were talks of secession from NYC a while back because of it. (which i kind of support, if Staten Island became an independent city, it would be the 3rd largest in the state behind NYC and Albany)
So just bragging about my place, hope you make the right choice.
QUOTE(Horyok @ Jan 19 2005, 01:43 PM)
We actually have ideas! Las Vegas, Seattle, Salt Lake City and Phoenix/Tempe are among our first choices.
Well, Horyok, I spent most of my childhood in the greater northwest - Portland,
to be specific. The people are pretty mellow and laid back, so I think you'd
find that aspect satisfactory. If you don't mind a lot of rain, Seattle would
be a nice destination.
If you are moving solely for financial reasons, I'd say don't. Things are never
as grand on the other side of the fence. America has been viewed as the
mother lode for decades, and often times when foreigners arrive they are
made painfully aware of the fact that it is a dog eat dog country, and you
must be strong and clever (or very lucky) to become successful here.
I lived in Europe for eighteen years and, if I didn't have family living in the US, would never have moved back. Indeed, had we waited until after the 2000 election, I would not have moved back at all. Apart from religious intolerance, be prepared for a level of racism here that is astonishing to most Europeans.
And, if nothing else, don't even think about a move to the states unless and until you already have a job here with comprehensive health coverage for yourself and your spouse. The cost of healthcare - and the extent to which the government panders to the medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance industries - is criminal.
And I'm not sure what all this talk of "opportunity" is about. This is not the Land of Opportunity, this is the Land of Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males. In Ireland, I had ten, twenty, fifty times the amount of opportunity to advance and prosper in any career which I chose. Even as a white male in the US, opportunity is extremely limited and almost never based on merit. And, if I had the job in Ireland which I have now, I would be making at least twice or three times as much as I am here.
I would give serious, serious thought to staying in a civilized country, were I you - especially with another four hate-filled years of Bush administration ahead of us.
And, if nothing else, don't even think about a move to the states unless and until you already have a job here with comprehensive health coverage for yourself and your spouse. The cost of healthcare - and the extent to which the government panders to the medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance industries - is criminal.
And I'm not sure what all this talk of "opportunity" is about. This is not the Land of Opportunity, this is the Land of Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males. In Ireland, I had ten, twenty, fifty times the amount of opportunity to advance and prosper in any career which I chose. Even as a white male in the US, opportunity is extremely limited and almost never based on merit. And, if I had the job in Ireland which I have now, I would be making at least twice or three times as much as I am here.
I would give serious, serious thought to staying in a civilized country, were I you - especially with another four hate-filled years of Bush administration ahead of us.
QUOTE(Wertz @ Jan 23 2005, 12:16 PM)
I lived in Europe for eighteen years and, if I didn't have family living in the US, would never have moved back. Indeed, had we waited until after the 2000 election, I would not have moved back at all. Apart from religious intolerance, be prepared for a level of racism here that is astonishing to most Europeans.
And, if nothing else, don't even think about a move to the states unless and until you already have a job here with comprehensive health coverage for yourself and your spouse. The cost of healthcare - and the extent to which the government panders to the medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance industries - is criminal.
And I'm not sure what all this talk of "opportunity" is about. This is not the Land of Opportunity, this is the Land of Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males. In Ireland, I had ten, twenty, fifty times the amount of opportunity to advance and prosper in any career which I chose. Even as a white male in the US, opportunity is extremely limited and almost never based on merit. And, if I had the job in Ireland which I have now, I would be making at least twice or three times as much as I am here.
I would give serious, serious thought to staying in a civilized country, were I you - especially with another four hate-filled years of Bush administration ahead of us.
And, if nothing else, don't even think about a move to the states unless and until you already have a job here with comprehensive health coverage for yourself and your spouse. The cost of healthcare - and the extent to which the government panders to the medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance industries - is criminal.
And I'm not sure what all this talk of "opportunity" is about. This is not the Land of Opportunity, this is the Land of Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males. In Ireland, I had ten, twenty, fifty times the amount of opportunity to advance and prosper in any career which I chose. Even as a white male in the US, opportunity is extremely limited and almost never based on merit. And, if I had the job in Ireland which I have now, I would be making at least twice or three times as much as I am here.
I would give serious, serious thought to staying in a civilized country, were I you - especially with another four hate-filled years of Bush administration ahead of us.
Sheesh! Hard to imagine what keeps you in this awful place!!!!
Wertz wrote:
Anyone living in Paris is quite familiar with "racism". Arabs-- even second generation are often times viewed as not truly "French". As I understand it there was a recent law passed in France that outlaws head garb for muslim girls in public schools. I would take what Wertz says with a grain of salt. The "racism" he is referring to is really of the type that was prevalent a generation ago. In any case, my point is that I do not think that Europeans would be astonished by racism here in the U.S. in 2005.
Wertz wrote:
I do believe that the amount of opportunity here in the U.S. is much greater than in France. That is not to say that France doesn't have a lot of great things going for it. I loved living there. It is just a different life style. But from my personal experience, I think there is more ways to "get ahead" here. I still have a number of close friends in France. They are all professionals. Engineer, professor, computer analyst. They all have families too. None of them own their own homes. Everyone I know here-- that has a family and is a professional does own their own home/land etc. My friends over there say it is just too expensive. They live near Lyons in France and one lives closer to Paris. The impression I get from them is that it is just not as routine as it is here-- to anticipate owning your own home-- especially when you have kids. Again, just a difference that I have observed from personal experience. Seems like more opportunity here. Not to say the life style is all that much better here. I think the French seem to take their time more and know how to appreciate life more; they walk more; they seem more culturally savvy etc. Just my observations. When I worked at Renault here in the U.S. years ago, I noticed that the French engineers took time at lunch etc. The Americans would often times eat at their desks. Seemed much more rushed and focused on working. I worked as a bilingual expeditor at Renault and had a close colleague in France who was shocked that I would decide at the age of 25 to go to law school and quit my job. It struck me as an inflexible kind of mentatlity in terms of opportunity. Here in the U.S. there certainly is a lot of opportunity -- if you are willing to look for it and sometimes take a risk.
Question for Wertz:
Why don't you consider returning to Europe if you truly believe it is so much better there?
QUOTE
I lived in Europe for eighteen years and, if I didn't have family living in the US, would never have moved back. Indeed, had we waited until after the 2000 election, I would not have moved back at all. Apart from religious intolerance, be prepared for a level of racism here that is astonishing to most Europeans.
Anyone living in Paris is quite familiar with "racism". Arabs-- even second generation are often times viewed as not truly "French". As I understand it there was a recent law passed in France that outlaws head garb for muslim girls in public schools. I would take what Wertz says with a grain of salt. The "racism" he is referring to is really of the type that was prevalent a generation ago. In any case, my point is that I do not think that Europeans would be astonished by racism here in the U.S. in 2005.
Wertz wrote:
QUOTE
And I'm not sure what all this talk of "opportunity" is about. This is not the Land of Opportunity, this is the Land of Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males. In Ireland, I had ten, twenty, fifty times the amount of opportunity to advance and prosper in any career which I chose. Even as a white male in the US, opportunity is extremely limited and almost never based on merit. And, if I had the job in Ireland which I have now, I would be making at least twice or three times as much as I am here.
I do believe that the amount of opportunity here in the U.S. is much greater than in France. That is not to say that France doesn't have a lot of great things going for it. I loved living there. It is just a different life style. But from my personal experience, I think there is more ways to "get ahead" here. I still have a number of close friends in France. They are all professionals. Engineer, professor, computer analyst. They all have families too. None of them own their own homes. Everyone I know here-- that has a family and is a professional does own their own home/land etc. My friends over there say it is just too expensive. They live near Lyons in France and one lives closer to Paris. The impression I get from them is that it is just not as routine as it is here-- to anticipate owning your own home-- especially when you have kids. Again, just a difference that I have observed from personal experience. Seems like more opportunity here. Not to say the life style is all that much better here. I think the French seem to take their time more and know how to appreciate life more; they walk more; they seem more culturally savvy etc. Just my observations. When I worked at Renault here in the U.S. years ago, I noticed that the French engineers took time at lunch etc. The Americans would often times eat at their desks. Seemed much more rushed and focused on working. I worked as a bilingual expeditor at Renault and had a close colleague in France who was shocked that I would decide at the age of 25 to go to law school and quit my job. It struck me as an inflexible kind of mentatlity in terms of opportunity. Here in the U.S. there certainly is a lot of opportunity -- if you are willing to look for it and sometimes take a risk.
Question for Wertz:
Why don't you consider returning to Europe if you truly believe it is so much better there?
addition to what my wife wrote (sorry for the dual posting), I want to thank you all for sharing your personal experiences and appreciations.
lordhelmet
Smoke won't be a problem, since I quit 3 years ago. We don't plan on having animals unless we have a decent garden where they could live happily. When it comes to French food, well, I'll miss the produces of course, but I'll make my own French recipes with American ingredients!
I completely agree with you that moving into a community open to foreigners will greatly improve our chances and accelerate them too!
Bikerdad
Vegas and Seattle are definitely our preferred destinations at this point, but we're still open to all possibilities, especially because everyone on the board has been so kind and eager to share about places they like and/or live in!
This may sound ironical, but Vegas and Seattle are interesting because of education. Both their universities have interesting courses. For once, Vegas is the cheapest when it comes to tuitions, and we'd be living under the sun almost all year round. On the other hand, Seattle is affordable too and has the advantage of having a very good reputation of open-mindedness and environmental awareness, which are very important to us.
Bucket
We intend to stay close to both families, whatever we do; their presence and support are invaluable! It's just a shame that they live so far apart, but I guess you can't everything, right?
When it comes to creating our own family, well, let's hope that nature will finally be kind to us someday!
Well, like "Mrs. Horyok" said herself, we are facing a major challenge on that one : she has bad credit and I have no credit at all!
The credit history is the BIG problem we're confronted with at the moment. Whether we can find a solution or not may will impact on our decision to move to the US... or not!
We've heard some catastrophic reports on the news here. Real estate prices have increased by an average 50% in the last four years all over the state, and in Paris alone, this rise happened in just a year! It's really discouraging to stay here, knowing that you will never be able to own your house. By the time you think you can afford it, the prices have increased again... sickening.
lederuvdapac & doomed_planet
There's nothing wrong with you "bragging" about the place you like, as far as I'm concerned. Both your insights are helpful! Thanks for your support!
Wertz
Well, Wertz, when I look at the perspectives of France, I don't feel that things are going to improve here anytime soon. Therefore, I believe we have more opportunities of finding jobs, owning our house and completing degrees here than France.
So that you know, Ireland has benefitted a lot from the EU, with a very dynamic economy with a steady growth. It is a real success! France is not the same story unfortunately... The growth forecast is only 1.5% in 2005
France is just another place where "Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males" rings true.
Don't get me wrong through : I love my country, its people and traditions. It's not perfect, but it's still my country after all. It just can't provide us with what we need for our life. It may sound like a failure, but it's true.
However, I'm not blind to what's happening in the US. For one, the prices of health insurance are certainly sky rocketing compared to France. Then competition sounds like the number 1 national sport. Also, religious intolerance and blindness are striking and disturbing to me and my wife. Racism is not cured in the US... it's still rampant here and there. The so-called positive discrimination, the politically correct, and the extensive customer service are bleak excuses for a society where people are scared of each other.
Talk about physical and mental oppression! Is this the American dream?
The reason I'm willing to cope with these factors is because I've met happy people in the US, people who succeeded in building a happy life for themselves and the ones they love. They are not rich or famous, but they succeeded anyway. If it works for them, I believe it can work for us too, even if we get hurt and even if we are disheartened sometimes when the road seems too long.
Whatever happens, I promise you I will keep both my eyes and my criticism open Wertz.
hayleyanne
I share you view about the French way of life and what you've said about the French people sounds very much familiar! Seeing French people from the eyes of a foreigner gave me a strange feeling though : I feel like I belong to a crossbreed somehow, with crossed dreams of people from both continents... now I feel confused, haha!
Again, thanks to all
lordhelmet
QUOTE
The other con (perhaps) is that you won't be able to smoke wherever you want, you won't be able to bring your dog into a restaurant, and you won't find as much good French food and finally, you'll probably gain weight.
QUOTE
You can even enhance that part of your experience here by living in an areas where there are people from many nations (most college towns or areas with a high level of technical job opportunities).
Smoke won't be a problem, since I quit 3 years ago. We don't plan on having animals unless we have a decent garden where they could live happily. When it comes to French food, well, I'll miss the produces of course, but I'll make my own French recipes with American ingredients!
I completely agree with you that moving into a community open to foreigners will greatly improve our chances and accelerate them too!
Bikerdad
QUOTE
If education is a concern, then decide on what type of education you want, and find the best you can afford, then move there. If its hospitality, then the clear choice of the four at the top of your list is Las Vegas. It has one of the finest hotel schools in the world. Oceanography or forestry? I'd suggest Seattle over Vegas.
Vegas and Seattle are definitely our preferred destinations at this point, but we're still open to all possibilities, especially because everyone on the board has been so kind and eager to share about places they like and/or live in!
This may sound ironical, but Vegas and Seattle are interesting because of education. Both their universities have interesting courses. For once, Vegas is the cheapest when it comes to tuitions, and we'd be living under the sun almost all year round. On the other hand, Seattle is affordable too and has the advantage of having a very good reputation of open-mindedness and environmental awareness, which are very important to us.
Bucket
QUOTE
I consoled our move with much of the same advantages you spoke of in your first post..also I have children and I don't know if you and your wife have any of plan too..but the fact my kids were growing up without their grandparents was an additional reason for me.
We intend to stay close to both families, whatever we do; their presence and support are invaluable! It's just a shame that they live so far apart, but I guess you can't everything, right?
When it comes to creating our own family, well, let's hope that nature will finally be kind to us someday! QUOTE
Are you concerned about not having credit in the US? Because if so that is a real major concern. We had none..all our grown up financial business had taken place in CH and here in the US they just do not care about it one bit. In fact I think it is much harder to be here with no credit than with bad credit. So yes then I agree this will be a major obstacle at first.
Well, like "Mrs. Horyok" said herself, we are facing a major challenge on that one : she has bad credit and I have no credit at all!
The credit history is the BIG problem we're confronted with at the moment. Whether we can find a solution or not may will impact on our decision to move to the US... or not!QUOTE
I also can completely understand your attitudes about owning a home..it was something I too felt would never occur for us in CH..and I think housing prices are a bit higher there because my husband worked with a few men in Basel who lived in France just so they could in fact own their own home. So this too was a motivation for us. And even with the warnings of rising house prices here..they still are a bargain compared to most European prices.
We've heard some catastrophic reports on the news here. Real estate prices have increased by an average 50% in the last four years all over the state, and in Paris alone, this rise happened in just a year! It's really discouraging to stay here, knowing that you will never be able to own your house. By the time you think you can afford it, the prices have increased again... sickening.
lederuvdapac & doomed_planet
There's nothing wrong with you "bragging" about the place you like, as far as I'm concerned. Both your insights are helpful! Thanks for your support!
Wertz
QUOTE
And I'm not sure what all this talk of "opportunity" is about. This is not the Land of Opportunity, this is the Land of Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males. In Ireland, I had ten, twenty, fifty times the amount of opportunity to advance and prosper in any career which I chose. Even as a white male in the US, opportunity is extremely limited and almost never based on merit.
Well, Wertz, when I look at the perspectives of France, I don't feel that things are going to improve here anytime soon. Therefore, I believe we have more opportunities of finding jobs, owning our house and completing degrees here than France.
So that you know, Ireland has benefitted a lot from the EU, with a very dynamic economy with a steady growth. It is a real success! France is not the same story unfortunately... The growth forecast is only 1.5% in 2005
France is just another place where "Nepotism, Favoritism, and Advancement of White Males" rings true.Don't get me wrong through : I love my country, its people and traditions. It's not perfect, but it's still my country after all. It just can't provide us with what we need for our life. It may sound like a failure, but it's true.
However, I'm not blind to what's happening in the US. For one, the prices of health insurance are certainly sky rocketing compared to France. Then competition sounds like the number 1 national sport. Also, religious intolerance and blindness are striking and disturbing to me and my wife. Racism is not cured in the US... it's still rampant here and there. The so-called positive discrimination, the politically correct, and the extensive customer service are bleak excuses for a society where people are scared of each other.
Talk about physical and mental oppression! Is this the American dream?
The reason I'm willing to cope with these factors is because I've met happy people in the US, people who succeeded in building a happy life for themselves and the ones they love. They are not rich or famous, but they succeeded anyway. If it works for them, I believe it can work for us too, even if we get hurt and even if we are disheartened sometimes when the road seems too long.
Whatever happens, I promise you I will keep both my eyes and my criticism open Wertz.
hayleyanne
I share you view about the French way of life and what you've said about the French people sounds very much familiar! Seeing French people from the eyes of a foreigner gave me a strange feeling though : I feel like I belong to a crossbreed somehow, with crossed dreams of people from both continents... now I feel confused, haha!
Again, thanks to all
One other thing you must consider is your personal safety. America is not a very safe place, and you must also consider your French accent- America, for all our ideals about liberty and diversity, is very violent towards the minority and thier scapegoats. Just your French accent alone in the wrong part of the country could get you into huge trouble. Even here in Alaska, where we have a HUGE mixing of cultures, the French have been harrased, and it made the news.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Jan 31 2005, 09:58 AM)
One other thing you must consider is your personal safety. America is not a very safe place, and you must also consider your French accent- America, for all our ideals about liberty and diversity, is very violent towards the minority and thier scapegoats. Just your French accent alone in the wrong part of the country could get you into huge trouble. Even here in Alaska, where we have a HUGE mixing of cultures, the French have been harrased, and it made the news.
I heard the same thing when moving from Idaho to Phoenix, AZ. People said there is a murder just about ever other day in the news. That is true.
But when you look at the where, when, and who of the situations, it is almost always at a bar or party where drinking (drunking) is going on, late at night and/or during the weekends. and mostly among Hispanics or Mexican nationals.
As for the french accent, tell people you are Belgian, it works for Poirot.
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Jan 31 2005, 03:58 AM)
One other thing you must consider is your personal safety. America is not a very safe place, and you must also consider your French accent- America, for all our ideals about liberty and diversity, is very violent towards the minority and thier scapegoats.
Interesting, well in my little corner of America there are bigots... they just tend to be essentially powerless to do anything about it.
Birmingham's (my hometown) murder rate is one of the highest in the country. Nevertheless the place is pretty safe, as long as you don't participate in behavior which invites trouble.
I doubt anyone will harass you for for French accent, barring the off-handed comment by the occasional idiot. Use this occasion to call him something nasty in a language he doesn't understand.
If anything stops you from coming here (you would be most welcome by the way
) don't let it be fear. You've visited before so you know what to expect. Jeez, the way some people talk you'd think the place was a zoo...
that's another thing, don't feed the bears.
I've never heard of French harassment here. Much less, I'd imagine, than an American in France would be harassed. We're a nation of immigrants.
I asked my French friends to give their inputs on this. They pretty much indicate the same as everyone here... it depends on which part of the country you live, and what you wish to do. It is much easier to start a successful business here, for example. There is probably more overall job opportunity. They advise staying near large cities, which are more progressive.
They also mentioned something I wouldn't have thought of, but it might matter to you. There is a very heavy LDS population in Salt Lake City (one of your prospective locations). They are very nice people, and the environment is wonderfully family oriented, but rather religiously aggressive. You will likely be approached frequently, and you might incur discrimination within the community, or even prospective employment. I've never been there myself, but this had been the perception from people I know who have lived there. One friend, for example, had a boy in little league. He was the only non LDS player, and was left out of many functions, birthday parties, ect. Others have encountered trouble finding employment due to the nepotism of that area.
I asked my French friends to give their inputs on this. They pretty much indicate the same as everyone here... it depends on which part of the country you live, and what you wish to do. It is much easier to start a successful business here, for example. There is probably more overall job opportunity. They advise staying near large cities, which are more progressive.
They also mentioned something I wouldn't have thought of, but it might matter to you. There is a very heavy LDS population in Salt Lake City (one of your prospective locations). They are very nice people, and the environment is wonderfully family oriented, but rather religiously aggressive. You will likely be approached frequently, and you might incur discrimination within the community, or even prospective employment. I've never been there myself, but this had been the perception from people I know who have lived there. One friend, for example, had a boy in little league. He was the only non LDS player, and was left out of many functions, birthday parties, ect. Others have encountered trouble finding employment due to the nepotism of that area.
Come to America.
The fact that you are considering such a large move as a change to take you to the next step in your life suggests that you are probably going to do just fine here, and we want you. America likes go-getters and people who want to do for themselves. It's true that you are taking a risk. You may be giving up some of the security and safety-net of your lifestyle in France, but you can improve that lifestyle here and get more of what you want. Of course, you may also do worse. Whatever happens, don't be discouraged. American business is full of people who had colossal failures, sometimes more than just one, only to be followed by great success because they didn't give up. Watch your expectations, I don't think they are unreasonable, but don't expect it all to happen right away. If you are not in a terrible hurry and willing to put in the effort, you will do great.
You mentioned being in sales, well, depending on what you sell, or what you can learn to sell, you will almost certainly have the opportunity to make some money. America is a consumer society, good salespeople can almost always find or create opportunities for themselves.
For access to foods and other products you may be used to in Europe, staying nearer to metropolitan areas will give you a greater access to them. I am certainly biased, but I would highly recommend Boston, especially for Europeans looking to transition into the US. Very Euro-friendly, a big mix of people from all over the world, some of the best colleges and universities in the nation/world, (some are private and expensive, yes, but I was thinking of them more for the sorts of people they attract to live and study in the area) and a city that, I am told, has a feel not unlike a European city. I warn you though, that it is expensive and the climate varies. We get snow and we get heat, just not for very long periods of time, usually, and the Spring and Autumn here are fantastic.
As for violence, by most reports I have heard the US is more violent that western europe, but I have lived here all my life, walk places late at night, my girlfriend and other women I know routinely walk to get to places at night, take public transportation and go about their daily lives without any incident. I would imagine that it is the same everywhere: know where you live, trust your instincts, and avoid circumstances that might put you into danger. That is probably not all that different than what you do in Europe. As your wife grew up in the US I am sure she has had something to say about the perceptions about violence in the US, not to mention that you lived here for 6 months, so you probably have a decent idea of what you are getting into.
Side note: While it still may not be the same, I have seen some raw milk cheeses in some of the grocery stores around here.
The fact that you are considering such a large move as a change to take you to the next step in your life suggests that you are probably going to do just fine here, and we want you. America likes go-getters and people who want to do for themselves. It's true that you are taking a risk. You may be giving up some of the security and safety-net of your lifestyle in France, but you can improve that lifestyle here and get more of what you want. Of course, you may also do worse. Whatever happens, don't be discouraged. American business is full of people who had colossal failures, sometimes more than just one, only to be followed by great success because they didn't give up. Watch your expectations, I don't think they are unreasonable, but don't expect it all to happen right away. If you are not in a terrible hurry and willing to put in the effort, you will do great.
You mentioned being in sales, well, depending on what you sell, or what you can learn to sell, you will almost certainly have the opportunity to make some money. America is a consumer society, good salespeople can almost always find or create opportunities for themselves.
For access to foods and other products you may be used to in Europe, staying nearer to metropolitan areas will give you a greater access to them. I am certainly biased, but I would highly recommend Boston, especially for Europeans looking to transition into the US. Very Euro-friendly, a big mix of people from all over the world, some of the best colleges and universities in the nation/world, (some are private and expensive, yes, but I was thinking of them more for the sorts of people they attract to live and study in the area) and a city that, I am told, has a feel not unlike a European city. I warn you though, that it is expensive and the climate varies. We get snow and we get heat, just not for very long periods of time, usually, and the Spring and Autumn here are fantastic.
As for violence, by most reports I have heard the US is more violent that western europe, but I have lived here all my life, walk places late at night, my girlfriend and other women I know routinely walk to get to places at night, take public transportation and go about their daily lives without any incident. I would imagine that it is the same everywhere: know where you live, trust your instincts, and avoid circumstances that might put you into danger. That is probably not all that different than what you do in Europe. As your wife grew up in the US I am sure she has had something to say about the perceptions about violence in the US, not to mention that you lived here for 6 months, so you probably have a decent idea of what you are getting into.
Side note: While it still may not be the same, I have seen some raw milk cheeses in some of the grocery stores around here.
They also mentioned something I wouldn't have thought of, but it might matter to you. There is a very heavy LDS population in Salt Lake City (one of your prospective locations). They are very nice people, and the environment is wonderfully family oriented, but rather religiously aggressive. You will likely be approached frequently, and you might incur discrimination within the community, or even prospective employment. I've never been there myself, but this had been the perception from people I know who have lived there. One friend, for example, had a boy in little league. He was the only non LDS player, and was left out of many functions, birthday parties, ect. Others have encountered trouble finding employment due to the nepotism of that area.
Let me respond to this one. I am LDS, a convert, and much of what is said here is true. As a convert, I am not as involved/ingrained in the LDS culture. When living in south east Idaho, I had nice neighbors who were non LDS and some of the locals ignored them. But I never considered those doing the ignoring to be good members of the church, even tho they probably thought they were. But you can find similar situations in other parts of the country. Try being any "minority" religion in the southeast Baptist belt, or in a heavily Catholic area.
The one thing that I find unsettling among the LDS is when non-member children are excluded from certain social functions. If you are a parent in this situation, go right to the bishop of the ward and let him know how you feel about it. He will very likely speak to those who are doing the excluding. On the other hand, if your child gets invited and acts in a manner that LDS people find completely unacceptable, well, they have their rights to choose who they associate with same as the rest of us. If you have to, remind him that he is the bishop of the entire ward, and that includes non-members. That means that when someone is in need, he is supposed to offer assistance, member or not. And I am pretty sure that non-members can even ask for a church court on members who have been overly offensive to non-members. There are consequences for bad behavior in the LDS church, not like many other churches that ignore it, or allow easy forgiveness.
And don't think for a minute that there are not bad apples in the LDS areas. There are plenty, adults, children, and in very small businesses, even some employers. You can bet that the larger employers are afraind to play that game.
Let me respond to this one. I am LDS, a convert, and much of what is said here is true. As a convert, I am not as involved/ingrained in the LDS culture. When living in south east Idaho, I had nice neighbors who were non LDS and some of the locals ignored them. But I never considered those doing the ignoring to be good members of the church, even tho they probably thought they were. But you can find similar situations in other parts of the country. Try being any "minority" religion in the southeast Baptist belt, or in a heavily Catholic area.
The one thing that I find unsettling among the LDS is when non-member children are excluded from certain social functions. If you are a parent in this situation, go right to the bishop of the ward and let him know how you feel about it. He will very likely speak to those who are doing the excluding. On the other hand, if your child gets invited and acts in a manner that LDS people find completely unacceptable, well, they have their rights to choose who they associate with same as the rest of us. If you have to, remind him that he is the bishop of the entire ward, and that includes non-members. That means that when someone is in need, he is supposed to offer assistance, member or not. And I am pretty sure that non-members can even ask for a church court on members who have been overly offensive to non-members. There are consequences for bad behavior in the LDS church, not like many other churches that ignore it, or allow easy forgiveness.
And don't think for a minute that there are not bad apples in the LDS areas. There are plenty, adults, children, and in very small businesses, even some employers. You can bet that the larger employers are afraind to play that game.
QUOTE(Bill55AZ @ Jan 31 2005, 06:14 PM)
But you can find similar situations in other parts of the country. Try being any "minority" religion in the southeast Baptist belt, or in a heavily Catholic area.
Oh, I can comments on that one too.
I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist here in the "Baptist belt." Seeing as most strangers I've met aren't quite sure what that is, I can safely say it's a minority.
That said its caused very few problems. Baptists rarely bother you about religion. You can always find like minded-people in any sizable city.
..are Latter-Day Saints more intolerant or something?
..are Latter-Day Saints more intolerant or something?
No, less likely to be intolerant than Baptists. I have been both.
LDS are more likely to be less inclusive, and even within the church there are cliques. Again, it is a culture thing, not a theology thing.
The only people I have heard saying that they can't stand to live around Mormons are those who bring their own negative attitudes with them.
There are problems everywhere, best thing to do is go around the problems, and the problem causing people, and just live your life as you see fit.
I expect that is the way to do things anywhere you go.
No, less likely to be intolerant than Baptists. I have been both.
LDS are more likely to be less inclusive, and even within the church there are cliques. Again, it is a culture thing, not a theology thing.
The only people I have heard saying that they can't stand to live around Mormons are those who bring their own negative attitudes with them.
There are problems everywhere, best thing to do is go around the problems, and the problem causing people, and just live your life as you see fit.
I expect that is the way to do things anywhere you go.
QUOTE
Well, like "Mrs. Horyok" said herself, we are facing a major challenge on that one : she has bad credit and I have no credit at all! The credit history is the BIG problem we're confronted with at the moment. Whether we can find a solution or not may will impact on our decision to move to the US... or not!
QUOTE
This is so unlike here in the US where you can just pack up and create a new life.
Well, perhaps you dont have to register to the Govt, but credit history is the great american trap . It is nationalized and will follow you from state to state.
Virtually every apartment you apply for will ask for a credit report, buying a house is not as easy as one might think either. You need a substantial and currently clean credit history or a big downpayment to buy. If you do come, make sure you dont fall easy prey to credit card companies.
The credit situation is easily surmounted, it jut takes a few steps. In big cities apartments can be had with little or no credit, but a job is necessary, always. They may not be the best apartments, but its a start. Then apply for a store credit card and a gas card, use them but be sure to pay them off each month not to get dragged down. Soon you will be getting applications for major cards in the mail, choose the lowest interest rate and apply for only two, no more! Closing them later will reflect badly.....use them for anything and everything and pay them off each month for 6 months. Your credit will get standardized in about a year or two.
There are huge credit pitfalls in the states, from sweet deals a 0% at first, then when youve charged a bunch of stuff it suddenly goes up to 19%.... and it seems you cant get anything done without credit.
It will probably be your greatest challenge, like buying a reliable vehicle that costs more than the cash you can afford. There are plenty of sharks willing to get the best of you there, bad dealerships etc. In places like Vegas, a $2000 car may go a long way and registration is cheap, but in Seattle you may get into trouble with passing emissions or environmental regs with a cheap vehicle. You then need credit.
Just remember that how quickly you get your name into the system and how you handle your credit is going to be very important to your overall lifestyle in the long run. Almost nothing goes unfiled, even leaving an apartment without notice or an unpaid traffic ticket.
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