GE employees are striking because they don't want to pay for their own health insurance.

According to CNN, the average employee at GE makes about $200 a day. They plan on striking for two days.

So, according to my math, that means each employee will lose $400 so they can strike.

How much money is their share of the healthcare premium? $200 a year.

These folks must be dumb. I'd rather pay $200 for a year worth of healthcare than lose $400 in two days with no result.

If I were GE, I would hold a press conference. I would announce the unemployment figures. Then, I would advertise that GE is hiring, at $200 a day, with NO health insurance.

The people will line up...

They interviewed a man who "can't afford" the $200 on his $49,000 salary. They were at his home. He had several televisions, stereo, dvd player, really nice furniture... He had some nice luxury items. Like healthcare.

What are your thoughts on this?

Mike

I think it is the companys job to pay for the insurance and not the people....

Also this is a quick post... I just saw this news

One more example of how unions have lost their value.

They are now forced to hurt working people to justify their corrupt existence.

For me, if they want to strike, that's their right. Though I'd agree with you Mike, GE management should just simply post want ads and their spot will quickly be replaced. In this economic climate, just having a job is worth hanging on to.

It's more like 400.00 added cost to the workers, not 200.00 as GE wants you to believe and it's only the beginning.

Don't kid yourselves that unions have lost their value

So what if workers have nice possessions? Are only CEO's with their huge pay and bonuses allowed to live well?

Madtown, who remembers life before unions

What? Since when is it a company's responsibility to pay for insurance? They are called "benefits" for a reason. The employer offers health coverage as a "benefit" to the employee. They actually pick up most of the cost for the health care that is not covered by premiums. As for the GE employees and unions in general, I agree that GE should post want ads to fill the positions for these greedy, ignorant union thugs. GE is not raising the costs because they want to make more money, they are going up because the amount GE is paying to the HMO's and PPO's has gone up. Look at the medical world in general, costs are going up like crazy. (Not that it is OK, but that is another thread all together.) In my town there is a Peterbilt plant that was losing money so they had to layoff about 300 employees. So what to the union members do? Do they go out and find jobs? No, they camp out in front of the plant 24-7 with signs saying "End the Lockout." Then you see them on the news saying how they can't afford to pay their bills. I swear I have never seen such ignorance in my life. Never mind the fact that Peterbilt is losing money and cannot afford to pay any more employees, but I forgot, they exist solely to provide employment for people, profit or not. Oh, and health insurance too.

Here is the thread on rising health costs.

...I know I'll take heat for this.

If you want luxury items, you have to pay for them. This includes televisions, computers, cars, healthcare, or even kids for that matter.

Maybe if the employees agreed to sacrifice their next few pay raises, the company would be willing to deal.



The increase will be in the employee's copayment. If you use more healthcare services, you pay more. If you have kids, you took on the responsibility to provide healthcare for those kids. GE had nothing to do with it. Of course you should pay more for healthcare. After all, you receive a larger benefit.

Madtown, would it be ok if they kept the healthcare the same, but didn't give raises for the next two years to people who use the healthcare plan more often? After all, they do cost the company more money. And benefits (maybe I should look that one up in the dictionary) are included in your salary.

Hey, I've got an idea! Let's give everyone a tax cut. If the feds could just keep their greedy hands off of our money, we could all afford health insurance.

Boo-hoo-hoo. I'll be crying for the $50,000+ a year employees who can afford to take days off work but can't afford to take care of their own families.

Mike

Mike stole some of my thunder.....What does what the CEO's salary have to do with the cost of insurance? Also, unions have lost their value in my opinion. They were once well intentioned and a good idea, but now all they are about is getting more dues. I have worked in a closed shop as a member of a union, and then was promoted to supervisor and was non-union supervising union employees. I have also worked in an open shop where some people were in the union and some were not. I can honestly say that all the union does is protect those who are ineffective and non-productive. The UAW has tried to come into our plant 3 times, and we have sent them packing 3 times. Why? Because pay is good and we don't need their B.S. It was particularly interesting the outright lies they would have on the handbills they passed out, and also that they bussed in about 200 teamsters from another plant to rally outside our plant the night of the vote. They would go on and on about job security and the union, and you would ask them "what about layoffs at Ford and Chrysler? Aren't all those people in the union?" You can imagine their stuttering response. What a joke! Why do the people who are already in a union shop care about whether we have the union in our plant or not? Simple, $$$$. We know that our company is kicking butt and we all have good job security and we don't need the crooks to come in and take $50 a month so they can pay the idiots sitting outside Peterbilt and such.

I agree Mike.

What do you mean they can't afford $200 a year? That 200 won't even be a lump sum.

$200 / 12 months = $16.70/mo

an extra sixteen bucks a month isn't going to put anyone out. And like most have said, just be glad you HAVE a job and qwitchyurbitchen



Unions had their place in Americas history. Life would be as it is now, without unions. They are no longer necessary...all they do is strike nowadays, which penelizes no one but the consumer, and everyone in general.

--cheers

Unions have a very important place in American society. I am concerned about my benefits (not a morsel tossed out by my employer out of the goodness of his heart but a part of my agree compensation for providing my services)

This little GE union is making a political point with its strike. It is also reacting to a change that is not part of the union contract three months before the negotiations for the next contract begin.

Unions played a vital role in improving American society. Most of us are dependent upon large corporations for jobs. We need to be able to pool our resources together (our labor) or to be able to threaten to in order to get some security from our job conditions, benefits, and compensation.

Recent corporate misbehavior and growing evidence of over compensation to executives is going to get more unions forming and more unions asking for a different share of the pie. Workers are valuable. Discarding an employee of twenty years and putting up a for hire sign is not good business.

I couple of small points - I really don't want to get embroiled in a discussion of unionization - and, I suspect you guys wouldn't want me to, either.


First, the argument that "times are tough" and there'd be lots of other people lining up for the strikers' jobs is specious. It is a form of blackmail.

Second, benefits are called benefits for a reason - to disguise the fact that they're not "benefits" at all. They're a rationale for companies to pay lower wages. It's far cheaper for a business to subsidize their employees health insurance than it is for them to pay their employees enough to afford the full costs of insurance on their own. If the payment of benefits significantly cut into corporate profits, do you think they'd be paying them? Hell, no - they'd be out there hiring some of those "times are tough" people.

Third - actually I'd better stop there. The little Eugene Debs in me is struggling to get out - and when he does, it's not a pretty sight.

I know, Wertz, you don't want to get embroiled in a big debate about unions. Does that mean what I say won't be refuted? Good.



...and saying, "We won't work if you don't do what we say" isn't? Unions are all about blackmail...



OK. I'm lost.

Benefits are called benefits for a reason - to disguise the fact that they're not "benefits" at all?

What would be a benefit then?

It only makes sense to purchase individual healthcare plans in bulk so you get a discount.

When health insurance costs are increasing so rapidly, any company that isn't looking to reduce costs is being irresponsible.

While these people are complaining about a couple of hundred dollars, the single mother of three is wishing her mom and pop restaurant employer would off any sort of discount, so she may afford insurance.

So, how exactly is health insurance not a benefit? Really. I'm lost on this one.

Mike

Mike,
Healthcare is NOT a luxury, it is a necessity.

If GE hires new people it will only be a matter of time until they become unionized. Meanwhile GE will be stuck with unexperienced workers that need training which takes time and costs money.

Why should GE employees sacrifice their next few pay raises? Let the CEO's sacrifice their bonuses. Did I hear right on the news tonight? Jack somebody got 900 mil.?

Buying tv's, computers, cars etc....that's the idea Mike, that's what makes the economy go round.

Let GE hire without health care. People will then join the ranks of the uninsured who use Urgent Care and Emergency Rooms when they have a health problem. This is already one of the big reasons why health costs are so high. When enough people are without health care the government will be forced to do something about it.

Madtown

Good thing their were pre-established hospitals and medical care facilities staffed with who-knows-what when the first human was born. Otherwise, we would have never advanced to where we are. That is if healthcare is, in fact, a necessity.

Healthcare is a luxury.



See, that's just it. ANYONE can do factory work. Employees come and go, and the companies don't go bust. If you are an unskilled employee, you are replaceable.

As for other positions, like product designers, quality control, etc., there are plenty of highly-educated, out-of-work professionals who would love to land a job with a secure company like GE.

I don't see unionization being inevitable.



While making a point with "Jack somebody" almost makes it not worthy of response, I can't let it stand as it is.

It is Jack Welch. He built GE into a hugely successful company, allowing it to employ mass quantities of unskilled laborers and offer them very generous compensation and benefits.

Jack Welch was involved in a messy divorce. Because he is high-profile, the media ran with it. His personal finances were disclosed. This was his retirement compensation package. He has since give back all of it.

I think it was a foolish move for him, as he earned it through his years of dedication and hard work, but I don't think he wanted the ex to get half of that, too.



We can agree on that.



Oh yeah, the government forces hospitals, privately owned businesses, to provide services to people who can't pay. I'm all for repealing that law. After all, healthcare is a luxury, and if you can't afford it then, well, we know the unfortunate result.

Mike

What family pays $200 for health insurance? Decent health insurance for a family is a lot more then $200, how about $600 a month. If they get good health insurance for $200 a month sign me up.

I tell you Mike, at my age healthcare is a NECESSITY and yes we know the unfortunate result of no health care . Spoken like a true compassionate conservative. Why am I not surprised?

The government forces hospitals to provide services to people who can't pay AND the hospitals pass that expense on to their customers which causes healthcare costs to keep going up. The more people without health insurance, the higher the cost will be for everyone.

It may well be that anyone can do factory work, but they still have to be trained and that takes time and money. Employees do come and go, but not whole departments all at one time. And BTW, even if you are a skilled employee, you are replaceable.

There will always be unions because there will always be employers who break contracts and take advantage of their employees.

Jack Welch may have built GE into a hugely successful company, but he could not have done so without the mass quantities of unskilled laborers he is now trying to cheat. He compensated them? Well, golllly, did he expect them to work for nothing? What good are benefits if he starts withdrawing them? Next it will be the "generous compensation" that he can't afford.

Who ever heard of a retirement pkg of 900 mil? (It really was 900 mil? I thought it was my bad hearing playing tricks on me) If he could set up a retirement pkg. like that , he doesn't need to charge his workers more for their health care.

Oh yeah, he gave it back! Right! Guys like him have all kinds of ways to hide money. Boo-hoo-hoo. I'll be crying for the multi millionaire who gave back his obscene retirement pkg and now only has multi millions to live on.

If you take on a wife you have the responsibility to provide for her and pay for your own messy divorce. The GE workers had nothing to do with it.

Madtown

Yep. I'm just gonna sit over here and simmer for a while...

Hey, I'm compassionate. I understand that some people can't provide for themselves. How much more compassion do you want? Maybe they should pass a law.



Stop forcing hospitals to take on credit-risk customers and the price goes down. They don't require mortgage companies to lend money to bankrupt people now, do they? A home is a necessity. We can't deny people the right to own a house just because they can't repay the loan they agreed to repay now, can we?



Yep. If the company completely cut health insurance for all employees and told them to go get their own (they're not benefits, right Wertz?), I'm willing to be that in the long run, they'd save money. Once they train their new employees, problem solved. A hundred million now for no health insurance premiums long into the future? Sounds like a wise investment to me...



And there will always be greedy employees who feel their employer owes them something more than a paycheck.



Hey, you got his last name this time... Again, why do employees think that their employers owe them any more than a paycheck? Is there a gun being held to their head, forcing them to work for a particular company?



No, it wasn't $900 million that he gave back. It was his benefits package, which was worth up to $2.5 a year. It included things like using the company jet, using the company apartments in different cities, using season tickets to sports games, etc.

A nice package? You bet. But GE has them anyways, why not let the man that made them so successful use them? At least, that is, when they are not being used by sales reps and executives to land new accounts. Hey, do you think landing new accounts could allow the company to hire more people?



So only compassionate for the poor then, huh? The wealthy are people too, you know.



Yeah, and who said it did?

Mike

Ranciduncle I think you need to shop for health insurance. There are many outside of your employer that are really pretty reasonable. I get ads all the time on the computer for health insurance for the "whole" family for $49.00 a month.

MO3,

Yeah. How come everyone doesn't just go with those $49 deals?

Because, well, you know, there's a shyster behind every piece of unsolicited email. If it sounds too good to be true, it is--and that goes double online!

As far as unions go, many believe the conventional wisdom that their worth has passed. This will prove to be a mistake in thinking, IMO, because the corporate behaviors that brought them about are still with us. Before the economic downturn, noise was being heard in Silicon Valley about unionizing call centers.

Mike, Mike, Mike,

This is the short-sighted thinking that gets corporations into trouble. If you gouge your employees today, they will leave tomorrow. Benefits are hiring perks, as you well know. GE is setting itself up to fail tomorrow when the economy swings back, the hiring frenzy kicks in, and all those disgruntled employees jump ship. Then we will hear the whining about no employee loyalty.

For land's sake alive! (Where the heck did *that* expression ever come from?)

A far wiser course to take is to ask nicely for employees to take cuts in bennies or pay, or both, to keep the company afloat through hard times, and then *increase* bennies and pay *over the original rates* during good times. That, sir, will lead to employee loyalty.

I don't understand why corporations insist on going brain dead every decade or so.

We saw what happened when United Airlines made the same request from its union mechanics this past year.

Yes, that would be a wiser course. Also, I believe the company can deduct insurance costs on their taxes, whereas individuals cannot. So, overall, it would be more advantageous to reduce pay rather than for individuals to pay for insurance.

BTW, what's a bennie?

This is never going to happen Mike, even though conservatives would like to see this. Trouble is they cannot appear to be so uncaring. As more and more people are without health insurance the problem will get worse and worse.

I haven't time to go into this any further now, but you'll be hearing from me.

Madtown

<<They're a rationale for companies to pay lower wages. It's far cheaper for a business to subsidize their employees health insurance than it is for them to pay their employees enough to afford the full costs of insurance on their own.>>Bill

Hey man,

By the way, I'm back from Canada and it rocked! I hit the slopes and did some dog sledding. It was mighty cold, but worth it. Us Texans aren't very used to three solid days of snow without let-up but the white Christmas created some lasting memories.

Ok, your comment - doesn't it seem that corporate America has actually made it more likely that they could pay higher wages because they pick-up the benefits? In your scenario, the company would have to gross up the cost of the premium for all the payroll taxes in order that the employee could net enough to pay the premium. The way it is currently set up, the taxes are avoided and the corporation has extra dollars, which could go to the employees.

Of course, the cynic (Mr. Debs?) would say, "fat chance, that savings is going to the evil Chairman of the Board."

Mark

Something for you to simmer over Wertz

Sorry, no. Why do you think many companies this day and age, are outsourcing many functions and handing over reigns to contractors? Because it is cheaper to pay a salary to a contractor that is twice what the FTE was making, than it is salary + benefits for your FTE.

I work for a telco who recently outsourced their IT dept to another company. Do you think that they pay this other company the same amount of money they were paying before? Heck no, they pay lots more. But on the books, it will be cheaper because they aren't paying us benefits anymore.

Otseng: It's not bennie, it's binnie. And it's slang for benefit.

--cheers

AM I was referring to ranciduncle saying health insurance being 600.00 a month. If you or me had to pay 600.00 a month for insurance you better go look for something else.

The law of supply and demand. Businesses need pay no more than what is needed to maintain the workforce they desire. They try to do more, in a competitive marketplace, they will not be in business for long.

MO3,

$600 a month for family coverage is probably competative right now, for the full health insurance package. I suppose just major medical would be cheaper, and if you went with something like a $1,000 deductable, you might get a better rate. I don't know, my income has been so low this past year that I've gone without coverage. My lawyer says that's the best thing to do--then just go to the ER if something starts leaking or breaks. If something really big happens, then do bankruptcy after treatment. What a crummy system! Bankruptcy is the national healthcare for the unemployed!

BTW, I am one of those highly paid contractors when I'm working full time. The contracting outfits pay me anywhere between $30 and $50 an hour, and they get two to three times that much from the paying company. Contractors are expensive, but you can lay them off simply by not renewing the contract. That means fewer lawsuits from former, disgruntled FTEs. Some contracting outfits offer "binnies", some do not. The higher rates are with the ones that do not.

Last time I checked (some years ago), I could get full coverage for about $350 a month. So, I'd have to work a day or so each month to cover just me. It'd take 2-3 days to cover a family.

Oh hey, I interviewed for a 6-month contract gig yesterday. Going rate? $17 an hour! Yeesh, but it's better than zippo or minimum wage. Fortunately, IBM up north is crying for my type. Maybe I'll get in there for around $37 an hour--much better, eh? But then I have to live near YuppieLand where the atmosphere is so liberal, even I get the willies!

Anyway, I am a big supporter of national healthcare insurance now. The present system is very bad for the unemployed, the healthcare industry, the unsecured debt industry, and just about everybody except bankruptcy lawyers. I suspect this economic downturn has convinced a lot of other folks about the need for national healthcare insurance, especially those with young families.