No Peace

Time for Kim Jong il to be kicked out CIA "Coup d etat" style!

Then maybe we can support and arm the next Saddam Hussein or Taliban that we can go kick out in the next decade after that. Good for the business of war.

I'm sure that would just do wonders for our already soaring popularity on the Korean penninsula. Even Bush wouldn't try to pull that right now... Behind one communist leader is another waiting to take his place, who will only be driven further away from peace because of his "martyred" predecessor.

It is becoming increasingly apparant that the American policy of overthrowing 'unsuitable' governments is creating a new nuclear proliferation.
The growing numbers of countries who view themselves as threatened by American military dominance will inevitably resort to weapons of this nature knowing America will back off and think twice.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The growing band of nuclear owning countries is far more dangerous than during the so called 'cold war' because of its fractionated nature.

By the way, it seems a little odd that a member of the 'axis of evil' should now be offered increasingly massive aid by America after declaring their intentions.
Why wasn't this approach vigorously persued well before it got out of control?.

Regards....Alan

Interesting....why hasn't Australia helped all these countries Alan? For that matter why are WE (as the US) always looked at to finance what the world wants us to do? I say, make your own money, then put your money where your foriegn policy is.

Darcaine

I think that is because they expect the Superpower to do all the work & not complain about it

Australia has no ambitions on the World scene and has always persued a policy of co-existance wherever possible.
Our meagre military is a defence force (ADF) and serves us well.
We have a well off, peaceful, multicultural society that works well together and prefers to spend it's money on us.
We DO NOT depend on American money and have NEVER had aid from them.
American companies are in Australia MAKING MONEY FROM US.

Wanna know why it is still peaceful?...........because we dont poke our noses in other peoples business and make enemies.
Go ask the Japanese, who own vast properties in America and have a bigger defence force than ours, why they aint getting involved in your latest escapades.
Go ask the Germans, French.

The answer is easy, America taught us well.

We'll just sit back and let the testosterone kids do their 'knight in shining armour' thing and after it's all over make a few bucks on the carcase.

We all know America will not get too heavy handed with NK.
Why?.
Because it might just be too painfull, and that wouldnt do would it?.

It was imperial power in 1942, but was it imperialism when the United States stopped the Jananese in their southward push to take over Australia. Or were we even then protecting our own interests? Or, perhaps, our presence caused the threat to Aussie soil?

Oops, way off topic, I thought this was the imperialism strand.

I'll let you get away with it this time

I say that because it is hard to separate a discussion of American imperialism when we talk of any foreign policy.

To answer the question at hand - no, I do not think North Korea wants war. I think North Korea wants a means by which it may protect itself were it attacked. For as a long time now I have wondered why we bother to dictate what types of arms another nation should or should not be allowed to have. It just seems like a serious waste of time and resources.

North AND South Korea don't want war. Bush messed up royally with his axis of evil speech. I heard the writer of that phrase on NPR, and his original text was different. Axis of something else, then someone changed it before the State of the Union presentation. I bet Cheney did that--a hack job by a power-mad incompetent.

Although speech writers should not make policy, our Commander in Chief should know better.

But he does not. And so, NK will get its fuel oil. Are you surprised? Not me. Expect ever more bizarre twists and turns from this administration. It knows not what it does.

Incompetence. That's what I will forever remember the GWB administration as having for its character.

N.Korea is only doing this for only one reason, they know america has its hands "full" with Mr.Hussein.

jaimeN.Korea a communist nation does not want a means to protect itself just a way to say to the world that korea wont be bossed around by the UN.They may try and inadvert a war using nuclar missles which can stretch to Japan, but how are they going to protect itself against a nation like Russia?

Also they have violated UN treatys to "light up their country" Everyone knows N.K will NOT light up their country, they will use it against a means of attack. If you ask me i think Russia,China,S.K., and all the UN countrys to [i]ATTACK[/u] N.k. if binded necessary

Fine. We'll go into North Korea & start a war that could result in the use OF NUKES

Is that what you want? A NUCLEAR WAR??? A radiated KOREAN PENINSULA?

Wait now, I own three very fine guitars made in S. Korea. If nukes fly, where will I find quality boxes and axes for low bucks?

No war in Korea. US spends heavily to bring NK up. You watch, you see, you will agree.

So NK is using the Iraq war as leverage. Yep, and what idiot (ID10T--my favorite user command) brought this about? Axis of evil speech: just a reminder.

Oh, hey, what if GWB is a dirty freaking LIBERAL????? Do you suppose this is his version of foreign aid?

He's brilliant then.

Nawwwwwwwwww

We can destroy North Korea. North Korea doesn't want war.

North Korea has always been a huge threat and now that they're stepping into the light the current morons in the White House have something to say about it.

If not for Clinton they would already have many many nukes.

During the severe wildfires you guys had a year or two ago, firefighters from MY hometown, paid for by MY taxes, flew specially designed aircraft paid for by MY taxes, to help YOU fight YOUR fires. I highly doubt you paid the bill. Why would you?

Seeing as how your pretty swift at throwing out childish insults twords America....much like the Internet throws out insults twords Microsoft..... I have one for you.

Australia, is as ungrateful for the good deeds that America(ns) do in the world everyday, as the rest of the stuck-up world is.

--cheers

PS: Your welcome

I need not remind any of you we DO NOT "throw out childish insults" here. If you feel someone is saying something inciteful, report it, don't play games.

North Korea doesn't want war, it wants economic benefits. It knows it is likely to get them because it has South Korea in a weakened position. More importantly, it knows the international community won't stop it, the IAEA hasn't even referred this to the security council yet, the UN is irrelevant for the time being. With only the U.S. to stop North Korea, and with many U.S. forces in Iraq. North Korea has seen it's chance and taken it. Unless the UN actually does something to enforce the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, North Korea wins it's gamble. I think the administration will be smart enough to make them dismantle their program, but who knows if DPRK will agree to such a (reasonable) request.

I think turnea has a firm grasp on this topic and agree wholeheartedly. What I disagree with is the way I believe the United States will approach the situation.
North Korea is making quite a gamble, but it's a gamble it would be a fool not to take. It is in dire economic collapse. It has been living in the past and its people have lived the Orwellian nightmare. The information North Korean people are given is that they are the world's superpower and the world worships them and cowers from their might. Yet, they have been relying on U.S. aid. They have been talking the talk. Now, due to economic collapse, they are forced to walk the walk. In order to keep up the charade, thier leader has to save face. HOW? Does he ask for more aid and be seen as weak? Or does he back off the nuclear program for aid and be seen as weak? ROCK vs. HARD SPOT. NO!!!! He threatens to produce nukes unless we give aid in the hope that we buy him off! The image of strength continues, the aid continues, The whole damn Orwellian charade continues.
It looks like his gamble is going to pay off. I think America is going to cave. What we need to do is call his bluff and and threaten him. BACK OFF OR ELSE! I would like to see his reaction.
As for Alan Wood, my words to him are simple. Americans have shed blood to free Frenchmen. Americans have shed blood to free South Koreans. Americans have shed blood to free Kuwaitis. Americans have and will continue to shed blood for anyone's freedom. Yet all I see is people complaining about Americans. Let a free country be invaded, who will they cry to? Australia?

Americans have shed blood to free Frenchmen. Americans have shed blood to free South Koreans. Americans have shed blood to free Kuwaitis. Americans have and will continue to shed blood for anyone's freedom. Yet all I see is people complaining about Americans. Let a free country be invaded, who will they cry to? Australia?

That give us no right to shed blood if and when we see fit. Here is what our allies the Kuwaitis think of us:


link

There is nothing noble about what we are doing in Iraq or anywhere else currently. North Korea is doing exactly what they have to do to protect themselves after the axis of evil speech. No, I don't like it. But I understand it.

I am afraid this is departing from the original concept a little.
Apologies.

It may be of some interest that during the wildfires in California a considerable number of our firefighters were sent to help.
My taxes....etc.
This is people helping people the way it should be.

We are sending part of our meagre defence force to help in Iraq, this 80% of us object to strongly.
My taxes...etc.

America stopped the Japanese from invading Australia.
Rubbish.
I would suggest you look at the map of Australia and decide for yourself why any force, especially one as stretched as Japan was, could never invade, let alone permenantly occupy us.

NK wants its "big stick" as well.
It was reported that they dont want war with America.
I believe this.
All they want is enough of a stick to be heard.

I totally agree. I just didn't want you thinking that your country has never received aid from America.

Stopping the Japenese from invading Aus? lol I've never heard that one before...good one. Your right, hogwash

turnea

I think DTOM mentioned something similar to what you said. He was saying that NK sees an opportunity to take advantage of an occupied US military.

I agree

--cheers

Try as Bush might N.K. refuses to be ignored. Their most recent statements are troubling.


“It is troubling, however.” Ominously, North Korea reiterated the crisis would only deepen unless Washington agreed to substantive talks.

“US should realize this. It will only deteriorate the crisis,” said KCNA. “The US should not work to realize a pie-in-the-sky dream, but have a correct understanding of the essence of the issue and the truth behind the present crisis and accede to the DPRK’s demand.”

Washington has said it will only talk to North Korea about how it can scrap its nuclear programs, offering the carrot of economic and political aid if Pyongyang agrees to do so.

There was no confirmation of reports from Washington that more US troops may be headed for the region. Admiral Thomas Fargo, commander of US forces in the Pacific, reportedly asked the Pentagon last week for more troops, aircraft and warships to deter any North Korean “adventure” should the United States wage a military campaign in Iraq.

Some 37,000 US troops are based in South Korea as a deterrent to North Korea’s 1.1 million-member army, which is fully combat ready according to Pyongyang radio.

“Our army and people are in full combat readiness to cope with reckless military and political maneuvers by US imperialist hostile forces,” the radio said in a broadcast monitored by Yonhap news agency. —AFP

Wouldn't it be awful if war within weeks was not with Iraq but with NK.? Why do they keep saying that the US is about to attack them?

Bush is not going to negotiate while being threatened by Kim Jong & his nukes.



Scary

Bush has Air Force pilots ready to drop JDAM's on those 1.1 million army any time or on weapons facilities

WOW

didn't get to read all the posts but the last few anyway..

I think LFTHNDTRDS has it pretty close. NK is doing what they always do. Puffing out their chest on the public front and on their knees begging on the private side.

War with North Korea would last about a week. China would jump all over them if they threatened trade with the USA. A War in Korea would definitely influence the trade China enjoys right now. They cannot let it happen. The USA is not paying much attention because we know China and Russia are right there. If NK needs invaded let them do it.

Bush will not negotiate until NK gives up its desire for Nukes. If NK does not give up this desire Bush will let the UN handle it I am sure.

Someone else said if it wasn't for Clinton NK would have nukes already....I am sorry for laughing at you ....well kinda sorry... If Clinton had kept his promise we wouldn't be having this problem today. If Clinton had kept a single promise he made to the American people about Bin Laden, NK, Iraq etc. We would live in a more secure world today.

Answer me this... One man makes and sells new inexpensive software, is partially responsible for a technology revolution, gives millions to charity. Another inherits millions, uses the money to build a revolutionary force, attacks and kills innocents over and over again. Yet Bill Clinton spent millions more dollars chasing down Bill Gates than he did Usama Bin Laden.

And you think of this man as a hero? Strange that....


GBYA

Aahz

PS 1.1 million man army with 30 year old weapons. Against 30,000+ higly trained modern equipped US ground forces?....hmmmm Methinks North Korea better go get some more guys.....we will wait...

Sad ain't it? Maybe Bin Laden should have shaved his beard & said he owned a computer company that was doing illegal stuff!!



I like you...welcome aboard the board (sorry)


North Korea will likely just fight dirty by launching nukes towards Seoul, Tokyo, or Hong Kong if caught in a corner like Saddam did with the Israelis during the Gulf War.




That would be me.

Clinton, instead of chucking a few Tomahawk cruise missiles into Afghanistan, could have sent a full force of
F-14's, F-16's & B-2's, followed by Special Ops with SEAL's & Marines to clean house

Whatever happens the politics between the countries happening now is most interesting. War is what America wants and war is what it shall have....but I will say right now, be careful what you wish for.

Wouldn't happen. NK needs the industrial base of the south to rebuild and refit their country if they decided to attack. They covet what their neighbor has.

They need farmlands and paddies to feed their people. A nuclear wasteland would do them no good, especially if prevailing winds blow northwards.

I also think China would have some issues with nukes going off so near their borders.

Being half Korean, this issue has been really high in my mind as of late.

I have read a lot of the news coming out of South Korea through the South korean news agencies and the like. It seems that even the South Koreans think that the North really does not want a war, but if the Americans do go int there, they are worried that what ever stockpile of nuclear arms they have, they will just go ahead and detonate, or shoot into japan.

South Korea wants China to put more pressure on the North Koreans than they currently are. Honestly, out of all of the countries, excluding North korea in that region with the most to lose if anything nuclear detonates, it is China, the populace and the fallout will travel into their country.

Kim Jong Il is crazy enough to think that if the Americans are going to go into NK, that if he attacks Japan that he will be a martyr in the sense that all Koreans would love to see the Japanese hurt. He does not care about his people, he does not care about his country. He is crazy enough to go flying off the handle if the Americans come in.

This can only end badly for Asia. Or if America gives them economic benefits, then Bush gets more egg thrown on his face, becuase is he not in fact negotiating with terrorists in a sense?

I think it put's Bush in a bad position no matter what he does.

If he negotiates he'll be doing something that Clinton did (and he would loathe that) but he is doing so knowing that they lied last time so what's the point?

His other choice is war. N.Korea was told it was part of the axis, see's what's going on in Iraq, and understands that NK will be facing the same threat from the US in the future. They are better off deciding the timing themselves. I would do the same thing in their place.

Going through the UN is not going to work either...and NK is flat out telling Bush HE is the one with the problem...no one else. I have no idea how Bush is going to get out of this.

Link

THis is the whole world's philosophy, if it were up to everyone else, except maybe Britain, everybody would be very to themselves and teh sick world leaders [Hussein] would be able to do whatever their little hearts desire. All because everyone wants to "keep their nose in their own business". It's a dirty job being teh police of teh world, but somebody's gotta do it [US and Britain].

CP

There goes John Wayne again.

I have no idea how Bush is going to get out of this.

Well it looks like the answer to that is in the air...literally... 24 heavy bombers deployed to SK and a prepare for deployment order sent to troops trained to fight that theater. (according to foxnews tv it is not on the website yet)


The best way out for the US is a surgical strike on the nuke plant in question. Dont worry it wont set off any atom bombs that may be stored there. Or I should say it shouldnt if they built them right...


Even a few predator drones with hellfire missiles could take care of the problem. The North Koreans wouldnt even know we were there until the deed was done. Naturally they will try to invade Sk or try to launch something on Japan. We can most likely handle just about anything they do. Again it is a cease fire over there. We can fire the war machine back up anytime we want without world approval.

Trust in China's need for American trade to put this whole business to rest. As the man said earlier....China has the most to lose here. They are just not quite sure what they should do. The smartest thing would be for China to hit the base and then slap Il and make him settle down. However they lose face if they do such a thing. Losing face is a big deal in Asian culture I understand.

That is part of Il's problem now. He has positioned himself to lose face or lose a war. The choice will be his...


GBYA

Aahz

Feed their people?? They don't do that now!!

They give all the food to the higher-up military officials & most of it still goes to Kim Jong