Full Version: Getting out the Vote
Forgive me if you have discussed this before (I looked and couldn't find it) - or if I have put it in the wrong place.......
In Mexico, as I recall, voting is mandatory. Here in the USA we are free to vote or ignore the entire process, and a disheartening number of people chose the latter option.
The political parties each spend mucho dollars in every election cycle on 'getting out the vote.'
Do you think that making voter registration easier helps or harms this process? I think a case can be made either way. What do you think?
In Mexico, as I recall, voting is mandatory. Here in the USA we are free to vote or ignore the entire process, and a disheartening number of people chose the latter option.
The political parties each spend mucho dollars in every election cycle on 'getting out the vote.'
Do you think that making voter registration easier helps or harms this process? I think a case can be made either way. What do you think?
I'm not sure how much easier it could be to register to vote. Frankly, I don't think that's the problem--voter apathy is the reason more people don't vote, IMO. They just don't care, or don't think their vote matters, or don't have any sense of civic responsibility, or think all pols are crooked jerks, or are just lazy. I will say this--my wife and I received a postcard from the GOP inviting us to receive our ballots by mail in the last election, and we sent that card in and received advance ballots in our mailbox a week later. We filled out our ballots while we watched t.v., mailed them in, and that was it. It was awesome--I'd take that option every time.
Voting should never be mandatory, you should never have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
This represents one of the basic freedoms we enjoy.
Efforts should be not to 'get out the vote', which seems to be a tactic used by some parties to as a means to their end, ie..paying people and busing them to a polling station.
Instead efforts should be made to educate voters on the constitutional process, a lesson suffering even in the public school system. True efforts, bypassing partisan spin, to inform voters how their vote will change policy in either direction.
This represents one of the basic freedoms we enjoy.
Efforts should be not to 'get out the vote', which seems to be a tactic used by some parties to as a means to their end, ie..paying people and busing them to a polling station.
Instead efforts should be made to educate voters on the constitutional process, a lesson suffering even in the public school system. True efforts, bypassing partisan spin, to inform voters how their vote will change policy in either direction.
Voting should definately not be mandatory. If people don't care enough about the issues, they are not going to educate themselves, and their votes are going to be completely misinformed. These votes will not truly represent public opinion, and it's not feasible to force people to care.
I would strongly encourage employers to give people who do decide to vote the time off to do it. Some people live in such fear of losing their jobs that they won't even take the time off to vote. I think that's sort of sad.
I've always been an advocate of declaring election day a national holiday. I think we could sacrifice one of our many other days off to afford this every other year
I've always been an advocate of declaring election day a national holiday. I think we could sacrifice one of our many other days off to afford this every other year
QUOTE(Jaime @ Jan 20 2003, 10:22 AM)
I've always been an advocate of declaring election day a national holiday. I think we could sacrifice one of our many other days off to afford this every other year
This is a very good idea, Jaime.
Jaime- That is the most brilliant post, ever.
As a guy who doesn't get many days off, which one do you guys suggest we get rid of to make room for a national election day off?
QUOTE(cyclone @ Jan 20 2003, 02:25 PM)
As a guy who doesn't get many days off, which one do you guys suggest we get rid of to make room for a national election day off?
What would be wrong with an additional day off? This is national elections we're talking about. It's not like it's something frivolous.
Something else which I think could help (to a lesser degree) is adding the option of "none of the above" to ballots. About half the people I spoke to who didn't vote in the last presidential election said they didn't go to the polls because they didn't want to support either candidate - and weren't that keen on the alternative candidates (or felt they had no chance of winning). When I suggested "none of the above", many of them said that they would go to the polls to express the opinion that none of the candidates were worth casting a vote on. The other half I spoke to were either too lazy or too stupid (my translation of their alleged reasons) to vote - and there's nothing that'll get those types to the polling place, no matter what.
Okay, say we institute a national election day--everyone gets the day off from work. Ostensibly, the purpose would be to vote. How many people do you think would do it? What percentage of eligible voters would get out and vote? (It was, what, 40-something% this last go-round?)
Maybe you're right on with the "none of the above" idea--maybe people don't vote because they don't like the candidates and want to make some kind of statement. But I have a really difficult time believing people desperately want to vote but just can't find the time. Frankly, I don't think we should have to kiss people's hinies to get them to vote--the ones who give a damn will be sure to make it to the polls.
Maybe you're right on with the "none of the above" idea--maybe people don't vote because they don't like the candidates and want to make some kind of statement. But I have a really difficult time believing people desperately want to vote but just can't find the time. Frankly, I don't think we should have to kiss people's hinies to get them to vote--the ones who give a damn will be sure to make it to the polls.
I am very suspicious of the "get out the vote" drives. They usually involve a democratic party attempt to get their patronage(poor, uneducated, sometimes illegal alien) to stuff the ballot box. Democrats own the patent on voter fraud, rigged elections, buying votes. During the november elections in 2002, democrats took advantage of a Minnesota law that allows you to register, then vote on the same day. They corralled up people from Iowa, drove them across the border, registered them with phony addresses, then ran them back to Iowa. I believe you should have to pass a current events and general knowledge test to vote. That would prevent democrats from signing up scores of illiterate people who love the liberal message of cradle to grave government assistance, anti-rich , anti-military, anti-business propaganda.
Some people, obviously won't take advantage of thier right to vote no matter what is done, because they just don't care, and they shouldn't have to, but a holiday would help those who do want to vote. I know that I have had moments in my job where I was too busy to get out of here and vote. I made it to the polls later on, but some people may not have that option for one reason or another. Why not make it easier for those who do care? IMO, simplifying the process would provide a large amount of incentive for people to vote without the use of force.
Imposing a federal holiday--a full day off--is going to cost businesses money. Who's going to pick up the check? Or will every business in the U.S. be forced to eat a day's salary for all its employees?
Cyclone, businesses get to choose whether or not they want to offer paid holidays or give employees the day off for any given holiday. IMO, this would be a more constructive holiday than most of the ones that we currently have.
I'm not sure if it is state or federal law, but employers have to give hourly employees time on voting day to go cast a vote. I think it is up to four hours.
For salaried, exempt employees, the issue is moot. The employer pays only so much and that is that, although many expect near 24x7 work through all the communications gadgets issued today.
ER doctors, nurses, and techs probably have the most difficul situation on voting day, but you can 1) vote early or 2) mail your ballot in, as has already been described.
I'm in agreement that low voter turnouts reflect a degree of apathy for politics. It's a shame too, because local politics trump national, usually, as far as your quality of life is concerned.
For salaried, exempt employees, the issue is moot. The employer pays only so much and that is that, although many expect near 24x7 work through all the communications gadgets issued today.
ER doctors, nurses, and techs probably have the most difficul situation on voting day, but you can 1) vote early or 2) mail your ballot in, as has already been described.
I'm in agreement that low voter turnouts reflect a degree of apathy for politics. It's a shame too, because local politics trump national, usually, as far as your quality of life is concerned.
Do you think voter registration has anything to do with it? Let me explain.......
People tend to treasure that which they have fought for, been taught to value, or have heretofore been denied. It has occurred to me that in countries where the franchise has been dearly (or newly) purchased it is highly valued. (By 'purchased' I don't mean monetarily - but as a civil right). In countries such as these one sees on the TV news people standing out in the hot sun, or rain, in long lines excited for the opportunity to cast a ballot.
Do you think that as we have made it easier to register (motor/voter, mail-in, same day registration, etc.,) to vote it has devalued the opportunity to exercise the right to vote?
Do people cherish it less because it is easier to do?
People tend to treasure that which they have fought for, been taught to value, or have heretofore been denied. It has occurred to me that in countries where the franchise has been dearly (or newly) purchased it is highly valued. (By 'purchased' I don't mean monetarily - but as a civil right). In countries such as these one sees on the TV news people standing out in the hot sun, or rain, in long lines excited for the opportunity to cast a ballot.
Do you think that as we have made it easier to register (motor/voter, mail-in, same day registration, etc.,) to vote it has devalued the opportunity to exercise the right to vote?
Do people cherish it less because it is easier to do?
Basheva,
Back when I was in high school, I really believed in the political process because both my folks were highly active. I couldn't wait to cast my vote! As soon as I got that right, I exercised it and have ever since. It is a sort of religious thing for me, although I prefer the term "spiritual", having grown up Catholic (yeesh!).
I think that the more wealthy families raise their kids with the knowledge that your vote does count and that it is your duty to vote. My family wasn't wealthy--my folks had a different reason for voting, and both were staunch, old-timey liberals from the rust belt blue collar working class. They voted to be heard. My mother voted Republican once, for Ike, because Stevenson was "stuck up". She never forgave herself.
My folks saw a direct result of their votes: better schools, better labor laws, better pay, better libraries, better highways, better benefits, stronger safety nets. As a result, my two brothers enjoyed much better lives than my folks. I had to go off on my own and maybe should be a conservative (being a freelance and all), but these roots run deep.
Today, I don't think people see the impact their votes have on local, county, state, and national policies. No matter who they vote for, everything remains the same. It is undeniable that the big two parties have gravitated to the middle with relatively minor differences in agendas, however, I also know that what propaganda is spouted by either party to gain power is rapidly dropped once power is attained. So Democrats spout pro-business hogwash while Republicans wear their hearts on their sleeves. This is still illusion: Demos tend to be pro-labor and Repubs pro-business. This is just one example among many.
The voting public is split on this and other issues, some more important than others depending on where the particular voter is coming from. The non-voting public is, I am convinced, largely holding the wrong belief that no differences exist between the big two parties. They are also convinced that third parties don't have a prayer for winning, as has been pointed out. However, third party candidates have won at the local, county, and state levels across the country.
A nod to Jamie and others: The Libertarian party has been the most successful.
We need to stop emphasizing how nothing ever changes no matter what and start pushing that each and every vote counts. I don't know how to do this, but I do know that the registration process is nothing if you want to vote. Making it easier has little effect on voting rates.
Another thing I know is that those holding power don't want a lot of voter turnout, especially at the local level. This I have witnessed firsthand.
Back when I was in high school, I really believed in the political process because both my folks were highly active. I couldn't wait to cast my vote! As soon as I got that right, I exercised it and have ever since. It is a sort of religious thing for me, although I prefer the term "spiritual", having grown up Catholic (yeesh!).
I think that the more wealthy families raise their kids with the knowledge that your vote does count and that it is your duty to vote. My family wasn't wealthy--my folks had a different reason for voting, and both were staunch, old-timey liberals from the rust belt blue collar working class. They voted to be heard. My mother voted Republican once, for Ike, because Stevenson was "stuck up". She never forgave herself.
My folks saw a direct result of their votes: better schools, better labor laws, better pay, better libraries, better highways, better benefits, stronger safety nets. As a result, my two brothers enjoyed much better lives than my folks. I had to go off on my own and maybe should be a conservative (being a freelance and all), but these roots run deep.
Today, I don't think people see the impact their votes have on local, county, state, and national policies. No matter who they vote for, everything remains the same. It is undeniable that the big two parties have gravitated to the middle with relatively minor differences in agendas, however, I also know that what propaganda is spouted by either party to gain power is rapidly dropped once power is attained. So Democrats spout pro-business hogwash while Republicans wear their hearts on their sleeves. This is still illusion: Demos tend to be pro-labor and Repubs pro-business. This is just one example among many.
The voting public is split on this and other issues, some more important than others depending on where the particular voter is coming from. The non-voting public is, I am convinced, largely holding the wrong belief that no differences exist between the big two parties. They are also convinced that third parties don't have a prayer for winning, as has been pointed out. However, third party candidates have won at the local, county, and state levels across the country.
A nod to Jamie and others: The Libertarian party has been the most successful.
We need to stop emphasizing how nothing ever changes no matter what and start pushing that each and every vote counts. I don't know how to do this, but I do know that the registration process is nothing if you want to vote. Making it easier has little effect on voting rates.
Another thing I know is that those holding power don't want a lot of voter turnout, especially at the local level. This I have witnessed firsthand.
QUOTE(HeatherRob @ Jan 20 2003, 09:15 PM)
I am very suspicious of the "get out the vote" drives. They usually involve a democratic party attempt to get their patronage(poor, uneducated, sometimes illegal alien) to stuff the ballot box. Democrats own the patent on voter fraud, rigged elections, buying votes. During the november elections in 2002, democrats took advantage of a Minnesota law that allows you to register, then vote on the same day. They corralled up people from Iowa, drove them across the border, registered them with phony addresses, then ran them back to Iowa. I believe you should have to pass a current events and general knowledge test to vote. That would prevent democrats from signing up scores of illiterate people who love the liberal message of cradle to grave government assistance, anti-rich , anti-military, anti-business propaganda.
well, a score is 20, so when you say scores, do you mean 40? or 60?
What a well-informed post! Damn those illiterate liberals! I'm so glad those upstanding republicans didn't mess with the 2000 presidential election in any way! God bless the conservatives for they will save us from ourselves!
As soon as minorities and women were allowed to vote, politicians and parties used often violent means to stop those groups from voting. "Get out the vote" allowed AMERICAN CITIZENS who had the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO VOTE, to get out and vote without fear of violence.
I have worked in a campaign office as a volunteer, most recently during the last presidential election. I can tell you a bit about my personal experience of what 'Get out the Vote' meant. I am not trying to generalize that this happened in every office, but it did happen where I was. We were given a list of questions to ask people - so we used these printed instructions.
"Get out the Vote" meant calling people who were already legally registered to vote a few days before the election to remind them to vote. The people were asked if they needed a ride to the polls (some elderly or otherwise physically disabled people did). They were asked if they had any questions. They were asked if they had received a sample ballot. They were asked if they knew where their polling place was.
And, that's it. No one was asked to do anything illegal. No one was forced. No one was loaded on buses or brought in from outside the precinct. No one was given false registration. So "Get out the Vote" is not ALWAYS a nefarious activity. It can be a very helpful activity as in one case a lady with four small children and no car, was very happy to be offered a ride.
What office was this? The local Campaign Office for President Bush. I can't speak for others, but I can for this office.
"Get out the Vote" meant calling people who were already legally registered to vote a few days before the election to remind them to vote. The people were asked if they needed a ride to the polls (some elderly or otherwise physically disabled people did). They were asked if they had any questions. They were asked if they had received a sample ballot. They were asked if they knew where their polling place was.
And, that's it. No one was asked to do anything illegal. No one was forced. No one was loaded on buses or brought in from outside the precinct. No one was given false registration. So "Get out the Vote" is not ALWAYS a nefarious activity. It can be a very helpful activity as in one case a lady with four small children and no car, was very happy to be offered a ride.
What office was this? The local Campaign Office for President Bush. I can't speak for others, but I can for this office.
quarkhead,
Gangs of New York, eh? (my cynical interpretation) Shoot, voter manipulation is a tradition.
It has become a science in the info revolution.
I don't doubt there are manipulations from both sides of the aisle.
What I know is that the more powerfull gang is gaining control. It has the control.
Man, I am too old to do punk or garage. But that's what this thing needs. I want reincarnation. A new body. I want to do battle.
Rock on.
Gangs of New York, eh? (my cynical interpretation) Shoot, voter manipulation is a tradition.
It has become a science in the info revolution.
I don't doubt there are manipulations from both sides of the aisle.
What I know is that the more powerfull gang is gaining control. It has the control.
Man, I am too old to do punk or garage. But that's what this thing needs. I want reincarnation. A new body. I want to do battle.
Rock on.
Basheva,
My hat is off to you. Good show!
I'm not too old to volunteer. And I have some talents. Right on!
Now if I can just find my way to bed
My hat is off to you. Good show!
I'm not too old to volunteer. And I have some talents. Right on!
Now if I can just find my way to bed
I guess I'm in favor of the "get out the vote" initiative. I mean, it's got to be a good thing to get people signed up at least.
But what does it really matter? Most of these people aren't going to vote anyway. Sign them all up...
Mike
But what does it really matter? Most of these people aren't going to vote anyway. Sign them all up...
Mike
QUOTE(cyclone @ Jan 20 2003, 03:58 PM)
Okay, say we institute a national election day--everyone gets the day off from work. Ostensibly, the purpose would be to vote. How many people do you think would do it?
I would like to think the number would be rather high. Most of the people who told me they didn't vote in the last election claimed it was because they just couldn't get to the polling place because of work. While it could be people looking for an excuse, it seemed prevalent enough to seem worthy of suggestion.
QUOTE(cyclone @ January 20 2003, 04:32p.m.)
Imposing a federal holiday--a full day off--is going to cost businesses money. Who's going to pick up the check? Or will every business in the U.S. be forced to eat a day's salary for all its employees?
Besides emergency services there is nothing that can't wait. I think we get a little too obsessed with the bottom line and are willing to forego one of the only actions that can make or break our freedoms.
How about half days? I'm not even suggesting with pay. Just a guarantee one won't get fired or lose benefits because they chose to go vote instead of show up to work.
I would like to pursue this a bit further, if I may......
What do you think should be the prerequisites for the indvidual's right to exercise the franchise?
Age?
Citizenship?
Length of Residence?
Proficiency in a certain language - like English?
Literacy?
These are by no means empty questions - as the population of this county continues to expand in diversity, knowledge of a particular language is a matter of concern. Like - how many languages can government be expected to print up a ballot?
What do you think should be the prerequisites for the indvidual's right to exercise the franchise?
Age?
Citizenship?
Length of Residence?
Proficiency in a certain language - like English?
Literacy?
These are by no means empty questions - as the population of this county continues to expand in diversity, knowledge of a particular language is a matter of concern. Like - how many languages can government be expected to print up a ballot?
QUOTE(Basheva @ Jan 22 2003, 10:44 AM)
I would like to pursue this a bit further, if I may......
What do you think should be the prerequisites for the indvidual's right to exercise the franchise?
Age?
Citizenship?
Length of Residence?
Proficiency in a certain language - like English?
Literacy?
These are by no means empty questions - as the population of this county continues to expand in diversity, knowledge of a particular language is a matter of concern. Like - how many languages can government be expected to print up a ballot?
What do you think should be the prerequisites for the indvidual's right to exercise the franchise?
Age?
Citizenship?
Length of Residence?
Proficiency in a certain language - like English?
Literacy?
These are by no means empty questions - as the population of this county continues to expand in diversity, knowledge of a particular language is a matter of concern. Like - how many languages can government be expected to print up a ballot?
Maybe this would be better in its own thread?
Mike
I can't imagine a reason to give a non citizen the right to vote.
As far as age, I think it is fine where it is. Voting should remain an adult decision.
And English should be the electoral language, if not where would it end?
Do we need ballots printed in Hmong? Armenian? Bantu?
The list could go on and so would the cost.
Literacy tests were already used post-reconstruction and deemed racist, so while it would be nice if people could read and understand ballots, it wouldn't pass muster today.
As far as age, I think it is fine where it is. Voting should remain an adult decision.
And English should be the electoral language, if not where would it end?
Do we need ballots printed in Hmong? Armenian? Bantu?
The list could go on and so would the cost.
Literacy tests were already used post-reconstruction and deemed racist, so while it would be nice if people could read and understand ballots, it wouldn't pass muster today.
QUOTE(HeatherRob @ Jan 20 2003, 04:15 PM)
I am very suspicious of the "get out the vote" drives. They usually involve a democratic party attempt to get their patronage (poor, uneducated, sometimes illegal alien) to stuff the ballot box. Democrats own the patent on voter fraud, rigged elections, buying votes. I believe you should have to pass a current events and general knowledge test to vote. That would prevent democrats from signing up scores of illiterate people who love the liberal message of cradle to grave government assistance, anti-rich, anti-military, anti-business propaganda.
Are you capable of participating in a discussion without including some totally unfounded partisan attack, HR? Just asking. I'm no great fan of the Democratic Prty, but each of your posts definitely makes me more sympathetic to them.
I believe you should have to pass a current events and general knowledge test to participate in a forum like this. That would prevent posters who have no purpose here - apart from tearing down those they see as opponents at every possible opportunity - from spreading their ridiculously one-sided propaganda. (Actually, I don't believe there should be any criteria for posting here. I just wish some people were more interested in debate than in advertizing their prejudices for no discernable reason.)
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