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DaffyGrl
The shooting in Red Lake, Minnesota is tragic on many levels. A young man from a remote, poor reservation whose father had committed suicide, whose mother is brain damaged and in a nursing home snapped for some reason and killed 10 people at his school before finally committing suicide.
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In April last year, Weise told racist website Nazi.org: "I'm being blamed for a threat on the school I attend because someone said they were going to shoot up the school on 4/20, Hitler's birthday, and just because I claim being a national socialist, guess whom they've pinned."

On May 26 he wrote: "The school threat passed and I was cleared as a suspect, I'm glad for that. I don't much care for jail, I've never been there and don't plan on it."

Weise, a Native American, apparently agreed with Nazi notions of "racial purity".

He also told the website he was annoyed that young Native Americans were ignoring their own culture, listening to rap music and were "wanting to be black". Herald Sun

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The secluded Red Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota has been plagued over the decades by more than its share of the seeds of violence: troubled schools, poverty, unemployment and bitter intertribal battles over basic rights and control of the reservation.

Red Lake High School scored second-lowest of Minnesota schools last year on state comprehensive tests for 11th-grade math and third-lowest for 10th-grade reading. According to the state Department of Education's 2004 report card on the school, nearly one-fourth of the 355 students required special education, and the school failed to meet federal standards for reading and math. Four in five of the students met government poverty standards making them eligible for free and reduced-price lunches and other benefits. Star Tribune

Rather than focus on the "usual suspects" in a school shooting, I’d like to discuss the racial/ethic issues surrounding this tragedy. Please understand I am in no way defending Weise’s admiration for Hitler and Nazis, but he has a point about Native Americans losing their ethnic identity.

When Native American tribes were wiped out or corralled into reservations, there was a push by whites to eradicate their culture, their languages and their religion. Native Americans at the time rebelled against this. Ironically, Native American youth of today are desperately trying to assimilate the way the whites tried to force them to a hundred years ago, and intermarriage with other ethnic groups has diluted tribal identity. I believe Native Americans should hold onto their culture and ethnic identity.

I wonder if Weise truly felt his culture was in danger of being eradicated, or if he was just a troubled young man unsure of his place in the world, angry at his life situation, and his professed admiration for Nazism were really what tipped him over the edge. What do you think?

Is the assimilation of Native Americans into popular American culture a good thing or a bad thing?

When does the desire for ethnic identity turn into something more ominous (eugenics, ethnic cleansing, violence, etc.)?

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Victoria Silverwolf
Well, let's set aside this specific tragedy, which probably has much more to do with the mental illness of an individual than with any other issue. Let me address your other questions.

I think that there has to be a balance between the mixture of individual cultures in the United States and the overall culture (if there is such a thing.) If we insist on the "melting pot" metaphor, where "everybody is an American," the plain fact is that this will mean that the American culture will be the European-American culture. If we insist on some sort of "cultural purity," we wind up with misunderstanding and resentment. Rather than a completely homogenous melting pot, or completely separate oil and water, I prefer to think of the United States as a stew, full of many good things that come together to add to each other, without loss of individual identity. We are all enriched by each other.

The specific situation of Native Americans is a very sad one. There is no way to make up for the human and ecological disaster of the European invasion of the Americas, so all we can do is to attempt to strike the right balance between accepting Native Americans into (for lack of a less insulting term) the "mainstream" culture, while accepting the many rich and complex Native American cultures.

The desire for "ethnic identity" can lead, as you say, to horrors in the name of "racial purity." I don't see a better way to avoid this than to remember to respect all individuals fully.
AuthorMusician
I wonder if Weise truly felt his culture was in danger of being eradicated, or if he was just a troubled young man unsure of his place in the world, angry at his life situation, and his professed admiration for Nazism were really what tipped him over the edge. What do you think?

The Nazi thing wasn't what did the tipping. I think that's a symptom of what was really going on.

The father's suicide could have left Weise feeling guilty. The mother's illness could have had another affect, but I'm more familiar with the guilt that kids feel when a father takes his own life. It's a life-long thing, from what I've seen.

The grandparents were killed first. That hints at something, but I'm not sure what. Need more info.

Is the assimilation of Native Americans into popular American culture a good thing or a bad thing?

Heh, I'll go with a bad thing -- but that's due to the state of popular American culture that includes music and entertainers I don't personally like.

I'll go with a good thing if the assimilation is into the culture, period. In other words, decent education and opportunities. Weise didn't like that the Ojibwa (Chippewa) traditions were not being observed enough, or at all. The traditions are simply the trappings of something greater. I'll call it community, but it's more than this. It has to do with being a good person in a good group.

Judging by other school shooting tragedies, it doesn't matter if you're red or white. There are universal problems in the mix. Assimilation into the culture -- maybe it's too hard for anyone? Maybe the culture is too messed up?

When does the desire for ethnic identity turn into something more ominous (eugenics, ethnic cleansing, violence, etc.)?

Wish I knew the answer to that one. Seems to be getting worse with time, the over-identification with group based on genetics and/or belief. In a tribal setting, the identification works for survival. We don't have tribal settings any longer, so it goes back to community, but our communities have gotten bigger, more confusing, harder to figure out where anyone fits. For most folks, it looks like family and friend circles work well enough, with community being secondary.

One thought comes to mind though. This shooting happened in March, and in Northern Minnesota, my old home turf. Perhaps winter depression had something to do with it. Months upon months of cold, dark days -- that can push people over the edge.

Overall, this thing has hit me even harder than Columbine due to having some personal connection to Red Lake. Wish things were different, better. Sorry for all who were killed and wounded, sorry for the whole community. Maybe something good will come of this, and I hope very much that good does result. Maybe the Red Lake community will come closer together and realize that we all need each other. Maybe flowers will bloom.

I'm hearing the low, mourning calls of the loon while looking over a misty lake, leaning against a red pine in the rain.
DaffyGrl
You have to wonder about the racial/ethnic aspect to this tragedy, especially when you hear...or rather, don't hear, this:
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…grief-stricken American Indians complained that the White House has offered little in the way of sympathy for the tribe situated in the uppermost region of Minnesota.

"From all over the world we are getting letters of condolence, the Red Cross has come, but the so-called Great White Father in Washington hasn't said or done a thing," said Clyde Bellecourt, a Chippewa Indian who is the founder and national director of the American Indian Movement here. "When people's children are murdered and others are in the hospital hanging on to life, he should be the first one to offer his condolences. . . . If this was a white community, I don't think he'd have any problem doing that."
<snip>
The reaction to Bush's silence was particularly bitter given his high-profile, late-night intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman caught in a legal battle over whether her feeding tube should be reinserted. MSNBC

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Bush's responses to the Schiavo case and the school shootings track with the preferences of two of his core constituencies.

Conservative Christians pressed Bush to intervene for Schiavo, while the National Rifle Assn. and other gun-owner groups generally look to minimize the relevance of political responses to mass shootings. LA Times
Lesly
I wonder if Weise truly felt his culture was in danger of being eradicated, or if he was just a troubled young man unsure of his place in the world, angry at his life situation, and his professed admiration for Nazism were really what tipped him over the edge. What do you think?
Every culture that is pushed to the brink of extinction or immigrates to a new country is in danger of being assimilated to the point where its cultural identity is indistinguishable from others if it allows this to happen. I'm not denying the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans our government condoned, but to suggest Native Americans are in danger of cultural irrelevance right now for assimilating is to criticize immigrants that choose to do the same thing.

Is the assimilation of Native Americans into popular American culture a good thing or a bad thing?
As with Hispanics, former Soviets, Sudanese, etc., it's both. You give up things like speaking your language 8 hours a day for five days a week, or give up cultural perks like noon siestas to improve the quality of life for yourself and your kids in a new place.

When does the desire for ethnic identity turn into something more ominous (eugenics, ethnic cleansing, violence, etc.)?
When you go off the deep end? I don't understand the question. Is this syllogism?

QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Mar 25 2005, 02:24 PM)
 
You have to wonder about the racial/ethnic aspect to this tragedy, especially when you hear...or rather, don't hear, this: 
QUOTE
…grief-stricken American Indians complained that the White House has offered little in the way of sympathy for the tribe situated in the uppermost region of Minnesota. 
 
"From all over the world we are getting letters of condolence, the Red Cross has come, but the so-called Great White Father in Washington hasn't said or done a thing," said Clyde Bellecourt, a Chippewa Indian who is the founder and national director of the American Indian Movement here. "When people's children are murdered and others are in the hospital hanging on to life, he should be the first one to offer his condolences. . . . If this was a white community, I don't think he'd have any problem doing that." 
<snip> 
The reaction to Bush's silence was particularly bitter given his high-profile, late-night intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman caught in a legal battle over whether her feeding tube should be reinserted. MSNBC

QUOTE
Bush's responses to the Schiavo case and the school shootings track with the preferences of two of his core constituencies. 
 
Conservative Christians pressed Bush to intervene for Schiavo, while the National Rifle Assn. and other gun-owner groups generally look to minimize the relevance of political responses to mass shootings. LA Times
*


You know, Daffy, it's reasonable the NRA would prefer stories like Weise's are off the radar ASAP. I was even going to suggest the White House may not want to give the appearance of lending legitimacy to tribal self-rule with Myers' nomination, but Minnesota is on the 8th, Myers' nomination for the 9th. It's a possibility, but it doesn't stick very well.

What really doesn't make sense to me from your post is the following:

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"From all over the world we are getting letters of condolence, the Red Cross has come, but the so-called Great White Father in Washington hasn't said or done a thing," said Clyde Bellecourt, a Chippewa Indian who is the founder and national director of the American Indian Movement here. "When people's children are murdered and others are in the hospital hanging on to life, he should be the first one to offer his condolences. . . . If this was a white community, I don't think he'd have any problem doing that."


Remove race from the quote and I have to wonder why should anyone look up to a White/Black/Brown/Yellow "Father" in Washington D.C. at all. I don't mean that just in Red Lake's case, but the Oklahoma bombing, Columbine, 9/11, etc. Once you seek and receive his recognition you may not like the next thing Father "recognizes."
Jaime
Let's remember to focus on the questions and not take it off track.

TOPICS:
Is the assimilation of Native Americans into popular American culture a good thing or a bad thing?

When does the desire for ethnic identity turn into something more ominous (eugenics, ethnic cleansing, violence, etc.)?
yehoshua
I wonder if Weise truly felt his culture was in danger of being eradicated, or if he was just a troubled young man unsure of his place in the world, angry at his life situation, and his professed admiration for Nazism were really what tipped him over the edge. What do you think?

According to his MSN Profile Page (here)
He claims to be located in "endless scrutiny, Minnesota," which can have meaning under a judgement because of his heritage. He further describes his occupation as "doormat," that sounds pretty 16 year old.

However more disturbing comes from under the heading of "A Little About Me" to which Weise claims "I can feel the urges within slipping through the cracks, the leash I can no longer hold..." What leash? Is this some sort of inner rage? Could this be due to his Native Culture or lack there of?

I think not. This is something deep within him, as he continued under the heading Favorite Things "moments where control becomes completely unattainable...times when maddened psycho paths briefly open the gates to hell and let chaos flood through...those few individuals who care enough to reclaim their place..." Mostly we read the ramblings of a disturbed young child, until the last thing. His favorite thing being "those individuals who care enough to realm their place..." Place in what? Is he talking Native Americans who reclaim the land?

Wises Hobbies and Interests include "planning, waiting, hating." This was in the works for sometime. For some time he admire the individuals who reclaimed their place. The picture at the top of his profile is of two boys carrying duffle bags into a school. Does he wish to reclaim the school?

Wises MD Categories include "Military, High School, Death & Dying." It is not very "Native American" to be pro calvary.

To claim that this boy had any concern for his native American culture is absurd. From his own words, he does not claim to have any ties to the Native American cultural. Even his movie (here) Does not show a native american killing the white man, but a man killing other men in various different ways, and ultimately taking his own life. This is Weise, who calls himself a "Native American teenage-stoner-industrialist" killing the world. This a boy how wants to shoot the world. He is anger at the world, and his place in the world.

It is reaching to claim that Weise intentions had anything to do with his heritage, however if there is proof (school essay's, teachers impressions, student impression) that match his profile with the additive term of Native American, then I will believe that this was based on his heritage.

When does the desire for ethnic identity turn into something more ominous (eugenics, ethnic cleansing, violence, etc.)? Ethnic identity turn into something more when the person attack out violence towards other racial groups. Like the Black Panthers on white cops and Nazi on the Jews.
DaffyGrl
QUOTE(yehoshua)
To claim that this boy had any concern for his native American culture is absurd. From his own words, he does not claim to have any ties to the Native American cultural. Even his movie (here) Does not show a native american killing the white man, but a man killing other men in various different ways, and ultimately taking his own life. This is Weise, who calls himself a "Native American teenage-stoner-industrialist" killing the world. This a boy how wants to shoot the world. He is anger at the world, and his place in the world.

The "claim" comes from Weise himself. He professed to be angry about Native Americans trying to act "black" and he believed in racial purity, thus the misguided fondness for Hitler. Hello? blink.gif

Yes, he had violent fantasies. And this is unique how, exactly? 16-year olds all over the country play violent video games where they are able to do worse things, and with more realistic graphics, too.
yehoshua
QUOTE
The "claim" comes from Weise himself. He professed to be angry about Native Americans trying to act "black" and he believed in racial purity, thus the misguided fondness for Hitler. Hello?  blink.gif

UMM, that is why I said
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"It is reaching to claim that Weise intentions had anything to do with his heritage, however if there is proof (school essay's, teachers impressions, student impression) that match his profile with the additive term of Native American, then I will believe that this was based on his heritage.
Now I haven't read what you have read, where would I find such articles that describe this need to follow Nazi ideals?

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Yes, he had violent fantasies. And this is unique how, exactly? 16-year olds all over the country play violent video games where they are able to do worse things, and with more realistic graphics, too.
The unique part is he acted on them. Most people have 'violent fantasies, however a huge majority never act on them. You think because of his native american culture he acted on his violent fantasies? That is to say that if he were some other culture, say black or white, he would have never acted out his fantasies? This would violate all that psycho pathetic research has taught us about mass murders. That they act on impulse not urges and that removing the urge would never prevent the person from acting on his or her impulse; regardless if the impulse of a mass murder is calm and calculated or a momentary lost of sanity.
carlitoswhey
This doesn't solve the ethnic question, but I think we can all stop referring to Weise in the singular. This was apparently a group effort - as they are all of the same tribe, it really makes me wonder what exactly happened here. The FBI is piecing stuff together from the PC's in the school computer lab.

Washington Post
QUOTE
Others Aware of Red Lake Plans, Officials Say
As Many as Four Believed to Have Helped Plot Attack

By Dana Hedgpeth and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, April 2, 2005; Page A03

RED LAKE, Minn., April 1 -- As many as 20 teenagers may have known ahead of time about plans for the shooting spree that resulted in the deaths of 10 people on the Indian reservation here March 21, tribal and federal officials said Friday.

Capt. Dewayne Dow of the tribal police told a group of parents, teachers and staff at a three-hour school board meeting that authorities believe as many as 20 students were involved.

One law enforcement official said the FBI believes that as many as four students -- including gunman Jeff Weise and Louis Jourdain, a classmate arrested Sunday -- were directly involved in planning an attack on Red Lake High School, and well over a dozen others may have heard about the plot.
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