B-A-B-Y-M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
This goes out to all my baby mamas
B-A-B-Y-M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
I got love for all my baby mamas

It's about time we had our own song
Don't know what took so long
Cuz now-a-days it's like a badge of honor
To be a baby mama
I see ya payin' ya bills
I see ya workin' ya job
I see ya goin' to school
And girl I know it's hard
And even though ya fed up
With makin' beds up
Girl, keep ya head up
All my....

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/fantasiabarrino/babymama.html

Everybody wants respect. Even single mothers. Fantasia Barrino, last year's winner of "American Idol" prides herself as being a successful single mother who is living her dream, building a singing career and raising a child without a father.

But is that something to celebrate? Every spring the new babymamas can be seen waiting at the bus stop with the newest crumb-crusher. Where are they going? To get a court-ordered blood test to determine paternalism? To sign up for state and federal assistance? Maybe to day-care to drop off the kid while they go to work?

Perhaps bearing children out of wedlock is no longer the badge of shame and embarrassment it once was, but is it something to be proud of and celebrate as Fantasia does? Gregory Kane, a commentator for Black America Web disagree with the sentiments of the song.

But now we have one of these marginally talented “winners” running around the country extolling the virtues of making a mistake?

Let’s face it: that’s what many “baby mamas” have done. They got knocked up by some loser who couldn’t or wouldn’t marry them. That’sa a mistake. You don’t go around singing songs praising your mistakes. You correct them.

But let’s assume -— and believe me, this is only for argument’s sake -— that Fantasia is right, and that “baby mamas” do deserve praise. Why do they deserve more praise than the sisters who decide to get married and then have children? Why do “baby mamas” deserve more praise than those sisters who decided to wait before either having children or getting married and decided to attend college and get a career and degree first?

And isn’t Fantasia ignoring the wealth of problems single motherhood has brought black America? If I’ve heard one person involved in juvenile justice matters tell me once, they’ve told me a score of times: most of the young black men in “the system” come from homes with a single mother. No father around. In a town like Baltimore, where 75 percent of black boys don’t graduate from high school, you can bet most of those dropouts are the sons of “baby mamas.”

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/b...mentary/kane407

The slow extinction of the conventional black family is nothing to celebrate so I'm less than thrilled with Fantasia's ode to single mamahood (then again, I don't think she can sing either so maybe I'm just biased). I'm also tired of celebrating bad behavior, poor choices, and stereotypes. I tend to side with this woman who wrote in response to "Baby Mama:"

I am a single, highly educated sister who has a good job, nice home, no baby-daddies, and no babies. I was a straight-A student, I am a member of a sorority, pay my taxes, don't sleep around, I am a productive member of society. Where's my song?

Where indeed? The question for debate is: Is Fantasia right to celebrate proudly having children out of wedlock as no big deal as "Baby Mama" does OR is this song a case of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions?

Is Fantasia right to celebrate proudly having children out of wedlock as no big deal as "Baby Mama" does OR is this song a case of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions?

But is that really what she's celebrating? Having not heard the song in question I can only go by the lyrics you've posted and they seem to me to be advocating pride and strength in the face of adversity.

That whilst becoming a single mother is not exactly a situation to look forward to, neither should it be a badge of shame or cause for despair and giving up. To me, paying bills, working a job or going to school whilst raising a baby alone ought to be a badge of honour as the song implies.

The lyrics of the song sound like she is celebrating "baby mamas" as a badge of honor. I think the writer is absolutely correct to point out that this is not right. I believe it is a perfect example of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions. Kudos to the writer that took a stand against this kind of stuff.

And I will also say that this is not just a "Black" term. It is applied by a man to women generally-- to indicate that the woman is the mother of his child. A man can have several "baby mamas". It really says something about our culture generally that this term has come to be at all. Expressions are born out of a need to describe something more accurately.

We should clearly not celebrate this kind of situation. But take it a step further, why should society not voice disapproval at this type of situation?

Haleyanne

But do they?

It seems to me that more is being made of the fact that the singer (who I am not familiar with) used a politically charged term to describe what is essentially an a situation women have found themselves in since the dawn of time than with the actual message of the song. I don't see anything in this song that is encouraging young women to become 'Baby mamas'. What I see is a singer telling single mothers to be proud of themselves for their courage in adversity whilst bringing a new person into the world.


What gives you or any one else the right to judge the life decisions of other people? And how do you know that all these 'baby mamas' even made any such decision to become a single mother?

The thing is, life is not something you can get through by following a formula that dictates how to have a happy life and how to raise children and when is and when is not the right time to act. Becoming a single mother may not be the smartest move a young woman can make, but it should never be something she is punished with social condemnation for.

People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes lead to the creation of new people. There is nothing new or unique about this in contemporary America. It is the same as it has always been and no amount of pointing the finger by society is ever going to change it.

It would be far more to the point if society adapted itself to the reality of the human condition rather than demanding human beings adapt themself to some constructed religious/moral philosophy on what constiututes how to have a happy life, or how to be a mother.


For two reasons.

The first is: single mothers need help and encouragement, not disaproval and social condemnation.

The second is: because its not any one else's business as long as the mother is not violating any laws in the upringing of her child.


editted for clarification

I understand that completely Moif. Life happens in a way that cannot be controlled all the time. Some people make poor choices, others find themselves in difficult situations through no fault of their own.

I am not advocating making these women feel bad. But the fact is that raising a kid as a single mom is not a good thing for many reasons. And we are seeing the effects on society as a whole from this increased phenomenon. It is not like I want to make them feel like I am better than they are. I, myself, happen to be a "single" mom. But I do think that as a society we need to figure out some way to make this stop. We need to encourage two parent families raising kids and not the other way around. How can we do that?

Good topic!

I have heard the song, my wife is an American Idol nut, and Fantacia is coming to concert here next week.

It is a total glorification- a song saying, bascially "I don't need no stinking man to help me raise my child"- and glorifying single parent families.

Listen, I am for gay marriage because I think it is better than a single person alone raising a child.

I see this mentality every day, as I work so often with adolecents- it is not considered by most kids in high school- and I am talking of all races here- for the woman to go ahead and pop out a kid or two, and just get the "money" off the papa and that is the end of the matter.

It is horrible. It turns my stomach to see these kids believing this crap.

I waited until I was 34 years old before I had my first kid- something I recomend to all males these days LOL

She is totally celebrating having children, more than out of wedlock, but irresponsibly and on thier own, even worse. If they even lived together with the papa, I am cool with that- it is the thought that teenage girls should and could have the babies on thier own, and really , they almost always shove that responsibility on others, whether that be a family member or the goverement.

Is Fantasia right to celebrate proudly having children out of wedlock as no big deal as "Baby Mama" does OR is this song a case of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions?



When I read the lyrics to the song, I saw it more as a tribute to single mothers who were taking responsibility for their own actions and trying to do the right thing. Having a child in under those circumstances is a "big thing" and it seems to me the song acknowledges that.



I see ya trying to do the best you can for your kids..... That's what that says to me. And to me, that's a good message. It's a positive message.

We're all human and we all make mistakes in life. Most of the time those mistakes are our own fault, and almost always there are consequences. Now having made the mistake it seems to me that about the only thing a person can do is to live up to it, accept the consequences and move on, doing the best that a person can do under the circumstances. In the case of a single mom, that means taking responsibility for their child and doing the best they can for them. I don't have a problem with encouraging that and maybe I'm missing something here, but that seems to be what this song is really all about.

Ditto, Cruising Ram's comments. (I never thought I would ever say that.)

Society has been enabling actions that harm society for too darn long. I'm not quite ready to go back to the era of shotgun weddings and illegitimate children being labeled bastards but it is time to recognize that two can do almost any job better than one. Particularly a job as complicated as parenting. I know it was the hardest job I ever had and without my wife helping it would have been a heck of a lot more difficult. It's about time society tells stupid people to grow a brain and that society will not enable stupidity anymore.



I think that is what Aquilla missed.

I dunno maybe, but I think not. If the lyrics had been...

"Cuz now-a-days it's like a badge of honor
to become a baby mama"

That would be a completely different thing I think.

Here's the deal to me- and goes to the heart of all my political philosophies- I am against the LEGISLATION of morality- but totally for a culture HAVING morals. I do not want to see legal punishments for moral issues- but I find nothing wrong with someone being made to feel ashamed for thier actions by the culture.

I do not want to see the goverment punish Fantacia for her being a single mom- but if poeple want to call her names and make her feel bad- fine by me. I know this sounds cruel to some degree- but being made to feel ashamed for the mistakes you make is part of being human as much as making the mistakes themselves.

I can relate my own experiance for divorce- it was the most painful thing I have lived through- and I was ashamed for it's failure, ashamed I had made an oath I could not live by, and had picked such an awful mate. However, the goverment doesn't need to make "divorce harder" for me to make me try to make my marriage work- but if my family or friends or my culture wish to make me ashamed, that is fine.

I think it is healthy for a society to say some things are shameful, and ridicule and denigriate those who make poor decisions- as an example for others of what not to do. If everyone called Fantacia horrible names, and there was no glory in her raising her baby on her own, and the father of that child was made to feel like scum for not doing what was right by his family, perhaps other children wouldn't think this behavior is okay.

CR may be onto something there. It seems to me that in Anglo-Saxon cultures, and especially the rainbow of cultures that makes up America, including the non-Anglo-Saxon races that have ended up there, there no longer exists much in the way of "shame".

The public condemnation aspects of it still exist - I can't help but think that this thread would not be here if people still were not prepared to make value judgements about other people, or that tabloid newspapers would sell many copies unless the "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all" rule had much purchase - but there seems to be very little acceptance of the value judgements other people make about ourselves these days.

This cuts right across almost all aspects of society. Nobody seems prepared to accept the judgement of wider society on any matter, whether it be for good or ill. Award-winning actors or scientists all seem to remain insecure, despite having been formally told that they are the best in their field at a particular moment. Multiple criminals are unrepentant, despite being confronted with their criminality. And might not the litigation culture we now see not be a symptom of our refusal to not just to accept the consequences of our own mistakes, but some kind of quest for public vindication of our belief that mistakes can only be made by other people, not by ourselves?

I think this is a spin off from the drive for individualism in our cultures, which is particularly acute in America (and is, rightly, seen as central to national identity).

After giving this some thought I have to disagree with the idea that this is the glorification of an immoral act. For two reasons:

One, being a single mother is neither wrong nor immoral. Neither is having kids out of wedlock irresponsible. Not taking care of the kids is irresponsible. Granted I think a two parent family home is more preferable, but that doesn't make it morally righteous.

Two, I have to respectfully disagree with those of you that are interpreting the song as a glorification of being a "baby mama". A "baby mama" is just something you are. If you got knocked up and decided to have a baby. Nowadays, it refers to divorced mothers as well. And there should be some pride taken in being a baby mama if you are out there representing positive things.

Let me also say it is human nature to take pride in adversity, I don't know why but that is the truth of it. "say it loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud" Is there anything in particular to be proud of, just cause one is born Black??.

It is the struggle in many cases, or perceived struggle in other cases.

"I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free" Wow... Whoopie.. aren't I the greatest to be born in this geographical location, where we "fight" for freedom!!

Pride is a peculiar thing, and the things we as humans tend to find pride in are even more peculiar. Fantasia is a baby mama so there is no doubt that she feels proud of her successes and relates to the plight of other single moms working hard and paying bills... and getting child support checks that don't even cover daycare. The women who think to themselves that this "stuff" ain't fair. But the still struggle and strive and persevere through adversity, and those that persevere through struggles should always be proud and keep their heads held high.

I will say this is an odd debate so far. Hugo agreeing with CR I think I am agreeing with Aquilla, he may puke before long, but it is fun while it lasts

Is Fantasia right to celebrate proudly having children out of wedlock as no big deal as "Baby Mama" does OR is this song a case of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions?These lyrics are ignorant and self-absorbed. Everyone pays bills, everyone works, most everyone goes to school and by school I assume she means college level education, and everyone makes their bed. I hope she is not trying to send a message to all these single mothers that somehow her success was a product of hard work and determination and if all single mothers continue to work hard they too will find prosperity. Her situation is unique since not everyone can sing like her.

Baby's momma is a euphemism for "This girl I got pregnant and left." If being a baby's momma or a baby's daddy ever becomes acceptable in our society then we are backsliding toward savagery. The scorn should generally be directed at the man and not the woman. If it is not then we may as well promote hedonism.

This is going to one of those weird topics where I'm going to be more of a conservative and Aquilla is going to be the liberal guy, but I think "Baby Mama" is a horrible song and I forbid my daughter to play it on the radio.

I see you get that support check in the mail
Ya open it and your like "What the Hell"
You say "This ain't even half of daycare"
Sayin to yourself "This s*** ain't fair"
And all my girls who don't get no help
Who gotta do everything by yourself
Remember: What don't kill you can only make you stronger
My baby mama...

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/fantasiabarrino/babymama.html

I didn't want to print the entire lyrics, but I'm wondering if some of the posters read them entirely or Greg Kane's commentary. I don't share his admiration for Paula Abdul , but I do agree that Fantasia Barrino is saying it's all good if you get knocked up and have to raise a kid alone with Big Daddy Government scratching the checks.

It's a lousy message for young girls of any race to receive. I don't have a problem with feeling positive and praising young girls who take on the responsibility of raising a child, but I don't think encouraging single-parent households and government dependency is good for any community.

Now I'm gonna go watch Fox News and get my daily marching orders....

But you are not really saying how it is encouraging young girls to "get knocked up and raise a kid alone...." there definitely is no reference to living off of big daddy government...

Personally I think it is a stupid thing to make a song about, It can only be dedicated to a limited audience, because while we can all relate to love, or love lost, we can't all relate to being a baby's mama, but the idea that this is a message to little girls that they should become baby's mamas is absurd.

It's just a few of you decided to get on your high horse for a little while.... enjoy the ride!!

Being a single mom has been a reality since the beginning of time. Should you take CR's advise and walk around ashamed that you are in that predicament. Forget that...(sometimes I wish we could have profanity free days so I don't sound sooo.... ya know) Hold your head down for no man, especially in something like this. I mean when it happens I expect there may be some shame because the social norms of this society. But get over it, and as the song says, lift your head up.

To be ashamed of being a single mom is to be ashamed of your child. Because "single" is the adjective describing the mother you are.

Hugo


I'll recognize two is better than one if you'll recognize 3 or 4 is better than two. Polygamy anyone??

NeoCon


The lyrics are a bit shallow to me, but like I said, I don't relate. But one should still feel proud in accomplishments(as they see it) they make. Should a high school student not be proud to graduate high school, simply because majority of his class did the same thing. Funny thing is, I have seen quite a number of people be proud of making their bed, especially when complimented by a Drill Instructor for having perfectly-45-degree-angle-hospital-corners on their "racks".

One does not need to relate to understand that promoting or condoning irresponsible behavior will be detrimental to a society. High school student that graduates and a mother that raises her child is not a valid comparison. An appropriate comparison would be someone that breaths to a mother raising her child. Doing something that you are supposed to do is not something that should be celebrated. It is true, that certain people place value on strange things. For example, I once saw a man punch a woman in the face at a nightclub and knock her out cold. Later on that night I heard him bragging to some of his friends about throwing a 'one-hitta-quitta' except he called it a 'Droopa Dropper.' Can you think of any lyrics?

I read all the lyrics to the song and I tried to go here to watch the streaming video of the song. I thought that perhaps that video might place the song into a different context than what I am reading into it. Unfortunately, I can't get the darn streaming to work.

I think the fundamental disagreement we are having here is whether the song focuses on the act of becoming a single mom and glorifies it or instead focuses on what one does after the fact of becoming a single mom. Obviously, my interpretation is the later one. I wish I could get that darn streamiing to work, it might answer this basic question.

For now, I'll stick with my interpretation (that's my story and I'm sticking to it) and argue from that perspective. Over the years I've known quite a few single moms, some by divorce situations and some who just simply got knocked up and kicked to the curb. I've seen how difficult a thing that can be. Having been a single dad at times in my life, I know how it is up close and personal as well and I had it easy. High-paying job, nice house, good neighborhood and all that, but even with everything going for me I still had to make sacrifices professionally for the sake of my kids. That was just a small taste of what a woman with a basic high school education and a low paying job (or jobs) goes through. The ones that can manage that do so through their own hard work and committment to their kids. They have my profound admiration.

I knew a mail girl at Disney who was living in South Central, commuting to work everyday on trains and buses and raising a son by herself. She fought like hell for that kid, keeping him in school and out of gangs, working a day job and part time on nights and weekends trying to save enough money to get her and her boy out of that hellhole of a neighborhood they were living in. The proudest day of her life was the day her boy graduated from high school - with honors and a scholarship to USC. His goal? He wants to be a doctor and buy his momma a house in the Valley. I'm thinking that young man is going to make one hell of a fine doctor and I've told him that. He's got his momma's genes.

Now, if this song is about that woman and people like her, then I think it's a wonderful song. That's a real success story and it ought to be celebrated.

I’m going to take a middle position on this. First, kids are going to have sex, regardless of what adults think, do or say. Pregnancies are going to occur at young ages—an age bracket where earnings are typically lower. In general, I think having a child to care for, especially with one income is a disaster. The time and money spent providing for a child's needs limits the options and life potential of the youthful parent.



I agree with Hayleyanne (such a rare occurrence ) that such situations are nothing to celebrate.

I’m not sure, however, she is going to agree with my proposed solution. To start with, there are no absolute answers. Just as Nancy Reagan’s “just say no” campaign didn’t work with drugs, such an approach will not dissuade youthful fornication. I personally think sex education is necessary for both teens and parents. If the public schools can get away from teaching to the test long enough, then this is obviously the place to start. Curriculum materials should be provided to parents, so that they will know what is being taught. What would that be? Contraception—pill, condom or whatever. I’m reminded here of the mother who told her daughter, “be safe if you can’t be good." Betty Ford, my all time favorite first lady, took a realistic approach. When asked what she’d do if she discovered her daughter was an affair, Mrs. Ford replied that she wouldn’t be surprised. It's hard to believe, but Mrs. Ford got hammered by the right for her approach.

I’m going to stop short of saying that condoms should be supplied to teens, but…
I’m sure my solution will draw fire from the religious right, but if someone wants to stick their head in the sand that’s fine. For all his greatness, the late Pope Paul II did have some blind spots. But then again, great people seem to have great flaws as well as great virtues.

An editorial by Freida Ghitis in yesterday's Fort Worth Star Telegram mentions some of the late Pope's myopic episodes, including this one:



http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/11353493.htm

Link may require registration.

Is Fantasia right to celebrate proudly having children out of wedlock as no big deal as "Baby Mama" does OR is this song a case of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions?

First off, I'm having a tough time parsing an inane song by a minimally talented singer working to a formulaic blueprint for a monotonous "top 40" format. Blech. American Idol and all its cookie cutter pop tart "winners" annoy the heck out of me! That's the real crime here.

Sadly, though, there are many young girls who do listen to this garbage. While it is one thing not to be ashamed of being a single mom, it shouldn't be something young girls aspire to. But let's face it, right now our society would rather see single "baby mamas" than see teenage girls get responsible sex education, practice safe sex and use birth control.

Good point!! Now how is she condoning or promoting irresponsible behavior, cause ??? As Aquilla put forth, did any of you read something that said "women should become a 'baby's mama'". I didn't.

Do you see her promoting or condoning irresponsible debt??

Cause I see "I see ya payin' ya bills"

Do you see her promoting or condoning sucking off the system while sitting at home sucking down ho-ho's??

Cause I see "I see ya workin' ya job"

Do you see her promoting or condoning being lazy and content and not trying??

Cause I see " I see ya goin' to school"

Do you see her glorifying how wonderful a life it is to be a single mother??

Cause I see "And girl I know it's hard..."

What is it that you are seeing that is so irresponsible in her lyrics or what she is talking about. What?? Should she have had an abortion.... Begged the father to stick around???

Hey old ti..., I mean nighttimer Tell me what you think about these outrageous lyrics, I can almost bet your daughter could hear these...

"Wont you come on and go with me(come and go with me bab-y)(ooo girl)
come on ova to my place"

mmmm-hmmmmm tell me you don't know who sings that!!! Would you turn it up nice and loud?? Is it not glorifying "the one-night stand" or "the hook-up"?? But that 's good music there, hell you would probably get up and two-step with yourself if it just came on, screaming, "ohhh lord, that's the JAM!!!!" Hey, Teddy was one of the pioneers in motivating people to create "baby's mamas"

Point is I could list a bunch of Ol' Skool "good" music that has waaaaaaaaaayyyyy more irresponsible messages than what some of you are harping on Fantasia for. Of course we can excuse the message cause the music was just so damn good!!

Yeah, but there's one (major) difference. Fantasia's "music" is aimed directly at the "tweens", while most of that good ol' nasty R&B, rock and blues was/is aimed at adults....and it was GOOD music, not cookie cutter pop pabalum!

OK, having grown-up as a child of a single mother I have a strong opinion on this. Today's youth view single-parenting as the norm. Which it is becoming. Now from my experience single-parent is an oxy-moron. For a couple of reasons. First someone who has sex while in a relationship that is not ready for it is obviously not ready to raise another human being. They can't even take care of themselves! Second, in todays world some hard-working families get by in the middle class with 2 parents. How can one do it? While I lived with my single mother I saw her about 2 hours a week. WHen she wasn't home she was working. We were on welfare. We didn't pay rent. Didn't pay utilities. But somehow we were always broke. Maybe it was the cigarettes and Taco Bell that was our daily routine. She "needed" theses things because she worked so much. Then she had to work because she "needed" these things. Not to mention as a result of our daily fast food I was 12 years old and over 200 LBS. Now that I live with my father I am 14 and weigh 165 LBS. Both parents work full time (my step-mom). They still work a lot, but we eat together. And we live in a beautiful home a block from Lake Michigan. Oh yeah another thing, my mom was one semester away from finishing College when she got pregnant, she dropped out. My dad had a full scholarship to Boston University, he didn't go. So in my view the less single mothers there are in this world the better.

Without getting too personal here, although you brought it up, I do have to wonder where your dad was in the first 12 years of your life. I'm not making any judgements here, but I would point out to you that it takes two people to make a kid, and if one of those people doesn't take responsibility, what's the other one to do? Work multiple jobs, live in the projects and get welfare to get by with her child. Meanwhile, you need to consider where is/was dad during all this time? Building his own life, buying a nice house just off Lake Michigan so 14 years later, after a whole lot of the hard part is over he can finally step up to his responsibilities, take his kid in and share some meals with him?

Like I said, I don't know your circumstances other than what you've chosen to share with us here. I can share with you my own experiences with 14 year olds however, and to be honest, most of the ones I know still have a lot of growing up to do.

Is Fantasia right to celebrate proudly having children out of wedlock as no big deal as "Baby Mama" does OR is this song a case of twisted values and rationalizing irresponsible life decisions?

I watched Whoopie Goldberg on tv the other night and one of her comments left an impression on me.

To paraphrase it it went something like, "People are getting real worried about morals these days, not THEIR morals mind you, but yours."

I am not a social conservative but I like the golden rule. People need to do right. In this day and age there are all kinds of family situations for all kinds of reasons.

Social conservatives tend to be anti-abortion and anti-single mothers. What gives here?
We are biologically programmed to seek out sex in our teens. Yet we tend not to be ready for the responsibility of parenthood in that situation.

Just like every deserves to wear white on their wedding day, I believe that everybody deserves to have a song.

I definitely do not place a value on shame. I also do not place a high value on planning on permanent government assistance.

I value people who see right and wrong in their daily lives and choose right over wrong almost every time.

If we want to get up in arms about a bad message in lyrics, I think we all can come up with better examples. Ace of Base "All That She Wants" (Is another baby . .) comes to mind for me.

I believe someone can have a child out of wedlock and have things turn out perfectly fine. I understand the argument that people are generally better off if they do not have to deal with the difficult issues of parenting as teenagers. But if we are going to send out a signal of shame to those people, how is the situation going to improve from there.

There are a multitude of family situations that will produce a good solid outcome down the road. it just takes people committing to doing the right thing.

I don't see the lyrics of this song trying to create a fad of single mamas. But I think we go in the wrong direction when we cast stones out of our glass houses and determine what morality is for other people. It rubbed me wrong when Dan Quayle was mad at Murphy Brown (did I get my politician right?) and it doesn't make it sound any better when it is a chorus of condemnation on Murphy Brown.

If a young woman (and our welfare assistance programs as well as WIC/food stamps) realize that it is in the best interest of a child to have multiple positive role models and stable authority figures in their lives we are all better off. At the social engineering level, the debate should be how to encourage young men to take a more active and/or permanent role in the lives of children.

Fantasia seems well positioned to take care of her child's financial needs.

Citing studies that single parent households are more likely to be in poverty is helpful before the statistics are created. But I think there are many ways to help children born out of wedlock to have an equal chance at having his/her needs met without it being a biological father. Grandparents, step-fathers and friends can fill voids where they exist. We just need more people looking around the neighborhoods and families they live in and accepting/embracing these responsibilities/opportunities.

Doing good don't never go out of style.

Bof-- it must be a red letter day, because I agree with your solution.




I believe we cannot stick our heads in the sand on this issue, it is too important. The culture has evolved to a point now-- where unfortunately, sex is portrayed as casual. That message is everywhere. Conservatives want to counter that message by ignoring the effects. That is unrealistic and harmful.

I believe our schools should teach kids everything they need to know to protect themselves against unwanted pregnancies and STDs. I also think that sex education classes should also have a hefty dose of "morality" teaching as well. The message needs to get out there, that it is just plain wrong for them to treat sex casually and that they are too young to be having sex. Period. End of story.

Well I know a few single mothers..one of whom is my dearest and most closest friend..I actually consider her more like my sister than my friend and she is also very close with my mother and father too.

So I have actually seen the struggle first hand..my friend was 20 when she had her child and we were roommates at the time. My friend's history plays a major role in it I believe as she was also raised by a single mother who suffered a hard life raising her child and so I think this idea of condemnation is nothing new..when were single mothers celebrated? When were out of wedlock children celebrated? Hasn't society always condemned this and continues to do so? This certainly is not a new solution any of you offer just more of the same shame the sinner mentality we have always had in our culture....I guess this is part of the "traditional family values" concept.

My friend may have been attracted to the wrong person and had a relationship with a loser...but he was the loser not her. He was the one who chose to not keep to his commitments and he is the one who left and he is the one who never pays child support and he is the one who has never for one moment in his life faced his responsibilities and actual bothered to help financially and emotionally raise his child. All he did was give his DNA and his name...he has since then given NOTHING. I have no idea how the women in these situations are the irresponsible ones..they are raising the babies aren't they?

I think further stigmatizing and degrading single mothers will do nothing to cure the situation. My main concern is for the children of these families and asking for increasement or continued difficulties for their sole provider to encounter in society just increases the difficulties the child must suffer in our society.
Shame does nothing but worsen situations and I am amazed that so many here feel this is a useful tool for a modern society to use...especially in regards to family planning, woman's issues and children.

I have to agree with Aquilla I felt this song was more of a recognition of a struggle..I don't think anyone feels raising babies on your own is easy, fun or cool.

Ignoring your leaden attempts at sarcasm, Droop224, if I have to explain the difference between a Teddy Pendergrass slow jam and Fantasia Barrino's ode to single-mommyhood, I'm afraid you wouldn't understand. But I'll give it a try.

There have always been "Ol' Skool "good" music" to use your clumsy term that have advocated infidelity, knockin' boots, gettin' horizontal between the sheets and doin' it until you're satisfied. But we're not talking about double entendres or latent sexual messages. We're talking about one marginally talented vocalist cheerleading the sad trend of children being raised in single-parent households.

Getting into a silly comparisons between Marvin Gaye's "Sexual Healing" vs 50 Cent's "Candy Store" and which is a more reckless message to listeners is a pointless waste of time. People have often used music as the soundtrack to sexual relations. So what? That's not the point.

I don't find anything uplifting or noble in watching young girls with one baby slung over their arm and pushing another in a stroller as a third one tags along. Sure, there are girls who can finish school, raise their kids without government aid and hold down a job. But those remarkable young ladies are the exception, hardly the rule.

You can dismiss my disdain for "Baby Mama" as just some "old timer" longing for his Motown 45's and the Top 40 radio, but I assure you that's not the case. I'm not hatin' on Fantasia because she's a contemporary artist and not one of my favorites. I'm hatin' on "Baby Mama" because it's a stupidly-written ode to careless and reckless behavior without any regard for the consequences of engaging in unprotected sex with men who only want to hit it, drop a load and be on their merry way.

I don't think baby mamas should be scorned, but neither am I going to hold them up as some kind of twisted role model to be emulated. It's just another attempt to make formerly unacceptable behavior acceptable and you can include me out.

Two things:

1) In my personal case my dad my an active member of my life. The only times that we did not see him when it was arranged was when my mom, on a whim, decided not to send us. One father's day we were supposed to spen at my dad's house my mom decided we were taking a vacation to Florida (on her daddy's dime). Well the first my dad heard from us was a call frmo Florida that afternoon. Also my dad wad obliously not a "runaway dad" because he turned down full colledge scholorships to marry my mom and take care of my sister and I. He also, while living in a shared appartment no where near a beach, lived on peanut butter for a week to send us child support. No, my dad was there as much as he was allowed.

2) in general even if there is a runaway dad. Then the tough time I have had and the imposible task of caring for AND raising a child should not be celebrated. Even if it was somehow the father's fault, the lifestyle my mother and I lived should never, in any way be celebrated.

Just because you lived a hard life with a selfish self-absorbed single mother, doesn't mean everyone is. No one is celebrating that lifestyle. Im with Aquilla and others on this one, I think that song's lyrics are more about triumphing through adversity than glorifying being a single mother. I mean, does anyone know a girl who's said,"I really want to have a baby before I can even land a decent job, and I want to toil away trying to provide a decent life for my child, instead of do things my peers are doing"? Because I haven't met anyone like that, and I think women should be commended for their choice to a) keep their child and face up the responsibility. I also think there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of by having sex, and having a baby. Making people feel ashamed for their choices has never helped anyone.

I don't think that anyone here or in this song is celebrating lifestyle you had. I would agree with you that there's nothing there to celebrate. What I see this song acknowledging is the single mom, being faced with an impossible task (your words), is willing to give it her all to try. The ones that don't give up the fight to make a life, some kind of a life for their kids. It is that fight and dedication and committment that I see as the cause for celebration. Not the mistake that created the situation. But, you are absolutely, positively right, NOBODY should have to live the lifestyle you and your family endured for so many years. NOBODY should have to go through that.

Along those lines, hopefully without straying too far from this most intriguing and provocative topic, I'd like to make a somewhat personal statement here and explain my postion to some who have indicated to me they are somewhat confused by my stance given where I usually come down on issues on the political spectrum. While nobody has come out and called me a damn liberal yet (them's fightin' words), there have been some who might be questioning my invitation to the Great Conservative Chili and BBQ Ribs Cook-off.

My position is on this issue is perfectly in line with what I consider to be modern conservatism. "Pragmatic Conservatism", "Compassionate Conservatism", whatever you want to call it. (Now, I know I have the self-described liberals who have agreed with my position in this thread really worried). Not to worry, "Trust the Force". But, it's not a political issue, not at all. It's a human issue, pure and simple. Teen pregnency is a problem that we in society face. It affects all of us to one degree or another. It needs to be addressed and I would argue that stigmatizing a young woman who's made mistakes and kicking her and her kids while they are down is not addressing the problem. Quite the contrary, it prolongs the problem, extends it for another generation. I don't have any studies to cite on this, or stats to quote, but it just seems to me that telling a child who is born into the single mom enviornment that they are worthless, that their mom is worthless is not a good thing for a society to do. That is counter-productive. So, instead, as many have suggested here, we come up with programs designed to prevent teen pregnancy, and we argue over those and that is fine, it is a national debate we should have. But, at the same we as a society need to recognise that despite all these programs and all this money, teen pregnancy does still happen. And quite frankly telling the mother that she should have used a condom, or practiced "safe sex" (whatever that is) or that she shouldn't have engaged in that behavior after the fact doesn't do a damn thing to address the fact that she is now responsible for another life. She's got a problem, and at some point her problem is going to be our problem whether we like it or not. My position is that we as a society recognize that fact right off the bat and seek ways to mitigate her problem, and ours. A song like this if my interpretation of it is correct is a small step. The "message" of "You can do it if you try, but it's a hell of alot of work" is a good message - that's called "Hope".

But Hope isn't enough, that doesn't put food on the table or a roof over a kid's head at night. It doesn't keep them off the streets and out of gangs and in school. It doesn't let mom come home at night and share a decent meal with her children at a time when they need her the most. She needs help.

So what does a Conservative Republican advocate to help this mom? We do what all good Republicans do - we "cut a deal". We tell that mom, "you make a promise and follow it up with actions that you're going to work your tail off to make a good life for your children, and we'll help you do that." If she needs to go back to school to get a decent job, ok, go back to school, we'll come up with a way to help you pay for it and a way to provide quality daycare for your kids. Now, once again I don't have any stats on this, but I will bet you that the cost of doing something like this would be a miniscule fraction of what it costs to house inmates in our prisons every year. I would bet that the cost of paying tuition for a trade school for mom and providing daycare for her kids until they are ready to go to school would be a fraction of the cost of putting one of those kids in prison for even a year somewhere down the road - not to mention the cost to society of whatever actions landed them in jail in the first place. See? It's a way to save money..... Not to mention it's the human thing to do.

This song starts that process with "Hope" and that's why I like this song. And the message of Hope is not a misplaced one. But, it's not enough. Some people regonize this, some of them products themselves of a "baby mama" home. One such person is an NFL football player named Warrick Dunn. Fabulous athlete, highly successful and paying it back. The Warrick Dunn Foundation "cuts deals" with single moms. Here's the deal......



I would ask people here if this is a "celebration" or a "glorification" of the act of becoming a "baby mama", or is it instead an acknowledgement that a person and generations of persons need help because mom made a big mistake and wants to do the best she can to rectify it.

Aquilla, I share your admiration for Warrick Dunn's charitable good deeds and upon carefully reading your post, I better understand your support of Fantasia Barrino's song.

But at the heart of the matter isn't charity, it's families and I'm sorry, but I hold fast to the belief that it's best for a child to have a mother and a father.

I very deliberately avoided placing this topic in the Race Debate, because single-parent families are not confined to any one race. However, as these statistics from the Joint Center for Political Studies show, what may be a problem in White and Hispanic communities has become a crisis in the Black community.

Between 1980 and 1994, the proportion of all black families that were headed by single parents climbed from 52% to 65%. By 2000, however, this percentage had declined slightly to 63.2%. Among both white and Hispanic families, the percentage maintained by single parents increased between 1980 and 2000, among whites from 17.1% in 1980 to 26% in 2000, and from 25.9% to 35.4% for Hispanics. However, these increases still left the percentage of black families maintained by single parents more than twice the percentage for white families, and 75% higher than that for Hispanics.

The fraction of single-parent families maintained by men is steadily increasing (see chart 2). Nevertheless, in 2000 the overwhelming majority of black single-parent families (90.1%) were maintained by women, and so were 79.3% of white single-parent families

http://www.jointcenter.org/DB/factsheet/sigpatn.htm (emphasis added)

I'm all for uplift and positive thinking about segments of society that have been unfairly stigmatized in the past as single mothers have, but the slang term "Baby Mama" or "Baby Daddy" bug the hell out of me. I am not advocating more loveless marriages, but it seems to me that a LOT of young women see the only outcome of sex without a contraceptive is a baby. I think that's incredibly short-sighted.

There is a larger issue at play here than a silly and insignificant pop song. I don't think Fantasia has a good grasp of how her personal triumph as a "baby mama" is hardly reason to create a holiday to celebrate the further crumbling of the family structure within the Black community.

I agree with your statement that two parents are better, far better than one. Although, there might be exceptions to even that in the case of abusive relationships, but that's a topic perhaps for another thread at some point.

I also agree with your decision to place this in a gender-based area as opposed to a Race issues one because as you pointed out, this is a problem, a major problem for society that cuts across ethnic, religious and social lines. I see it as a key, maybe the key foundational problem that society faces today. That discussion too would be worthy of another thread I think that would allow us to expand away from the meaning of this song specifically. I'll see if I can find some stuff out there to maybe get another discussion going on that.

And, that returns us to the song and our two very different perceptions of the message contained in that song. I don't know about the slang terms used and if they have some specific meaning, I'm a 52 year old guy who still uses words like "slick", "cool" and 'neat". What the hell do I know about "baby mama"? If I had written the song with the message I interpreted in it, it probably would have been a country song along the lines of "Mamas don't let your babies grow up to gang-bangers", but that might not have had quite the play in the demographic I was looking to reach.

(section emboldened by me)

Well Kim, that is not quite true- the MOST influential type of conditioning is social conditioning. What do you do when you get on an elevator? How did you know that was what you were supposed to do? One of the scariest, and eventually unethical studies, was the stanford prison experiment
http://www.prisonexp.org/

which serves to this day as a highlighte of how social roles shapes us into poeple we think we wil never be!

Of course, you will never eradicate teenage pregancy, unless we start putting contraceptives in the water LOL- but making it a matter of taboo, extreme shame etc WILL make it a very rare thing indeed. When there was shame and stigmata involved in out of wedlock births- well, we didn't have so many.

The bad part of that, of course, was the impact to the child, the impact to that mother, and the possibility that the mother was forced into the situation.

But the fact exists- if it is a cultural taboo, then it is rare- if it is accepted, then it is not.

Well, quite the opposit. Anyone who has sex without regard for the fact that a baby could be the result Is making that statement. NO I have never heard anyone say those words but Actions speak ten times louder than words.


To everyone else: The wordds in this song do celebrate the triumph of the single mother.... does anyone else see the obvious flaw in that? No?! Let me spell it out: Single Mother= a mother= someone raising a child. Where is the child in all of this. Mabey the mother is happy for doing the best she could, and providing all she thinks she can. But that has nothing to do with being a mother. Not to mention that it is impossible to replace the love and guidence of a father.


Look, it all comes down to this: Sex. It has conciquences. If you aren't able to deal with them in the healthiest way possible then....... drum roll please. HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA DON"T HAVE SEX!!!

Don't get me wrong I think that making love between a man and woman is beautiful, but it isn't just a man and a woman there are millions of potential births involved. Now I'm a teenage, I know the "Heat of the moment factor." But thats just it, anyone who gets caught-up in the "heat of the moment" is acting like my peers and I. 15 years old. Obviously not someone who can raise a child.

I would assert that most people who end up having unprotected sex do not seriously weigh the consequences, however that does not mean they want to have a baby. In fact, they have the option of getting an abortion. What Im saying is that those who have unprotected sex, and decide to keep the baby shouldn't be ashamed about their choice. And we have no right to judge them.



Im sorry, youre incohoerent sentence hardly demonstrates how triumphing as a single mother is an inherent flaw. And are you joking? A mother doing the best she can for the child has nothing to do with being a mother?! I would that that is what being a mother is all about: providing for a child. Moreover "the love and guidance" of a father? hmmm...Perhaps the same father that left the mother? Of course that's who we want to raise the child...This is a joke. If there is a loving father around, obviously he should be involved but how often is that the case? I'm willing to bet most single mothers don't have a say in whether or not the father sticks around. So don't go blaming mothers for the fact that the father isn't around. Why is it OK to beat-up on single mothers, when we let dead-beat dads off the hook?



This is ridiculous. Your age is showing. The fact is that most people who have sex aren't expecting the consequences, should they just never have sex? Also I would say that "dealing" with the consequence of getting pregnant is giving birth, or are you saying that's not the healthiest way to deal with pregnancy? Science says otherwise.

People make stupid mistakes all the time, regardless of their age, that doesn't mean they shouldnt be banned from having sex or children.



Hmm, then why is hardcore porn so readily available and profitable? And your example of the Stanford prison experiment shows me why it is so necessary to break social conditioning. Obviously, it has its merits, and its not something that be controlled entirely. However, we need to look past our conditioning, or we end up sadistic killers (tee hee). Just because it happens doesn't make it right.

I still say that making people feel ashamed for something, especially something like having a child while single, is not the way to go. What would be better is allowing those people resources to better themselves and make appropriate lifestyle choices. What good does it do for us to treat single mom's like the plague? That's not going to help them raise healthy, responsible children, and it's certainly not going to make them healthy and responsible.

And in the end, I feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a single mother. I know that's not a popular position, but Im not into moralizing behavior or personal choice. And I hope nobody twists this around to mean that I think there is something with a mother and father raising children, or whatever else ridiculous notion some ADers come up with. I advocate creating community, and shunning single mothers does nothing to create community. A having a strong community, I feel, is just as good as having two loving responsible parents raising a child.

Wow, after reading this thread. NT, Im kind-of perplexed.

I see the song as a tribute to what has been a sort of inevitable. I dont see it as an encouragement to do the same.

I remember Maddona's "Keeping my baby" coming under the same type of scrutiny, encouragement of teenage pregnancy, single motherhood and the like.

I dont have time to mess around with the logistics, so to put it bluntly, either we love babies or we dont. If we love them enough not to abort them, they have to be cared for. You cant have it both ways, IE: single mothers vs. abortion. Or education.

Either Republicans decide to let go of their stringent rules on NOT educating teenagers about sex because of their ideology (that if we dont educate, teen sex will not happen)- or make room and money for single motherhood ( the consequences of NOT having sex education)--- or give up the anti-abortion stance.
As it is, conservatives have placed girls, teens and women in a corner with NO REASONBLE SOLUTION to their problems except abstinance which is proven to be ridiculous and unviable.
Id like to say something that ALL men know about penises and the sex drive in men, young and old; it is the male drive for constant sex that makes this world turn as it does. This is evident in ultra male issues such as extra-martital sex affairs, the proliferation of pornography, the widespread use of prostitution, strip clubs and massage parlors, as well as the lesser, incest, rape and pedophilia.
It is shameful to continue the lie that young women are at fault for promiscuity and pregnancy, especially without basic sex education. The very fact that teen women are not educated on sex is a male dominated power play, as who would sex education benefit most? And who might be left out in an educated scenario?
The common thought is that sex education would teach teenagers how to have sex. The reality is that sex education would teach females how NOT to have sex without protecting themselves, not males for the most part, who will have sex with sheep, dogs and holes in bathroom walls if given the opportunity. Lets just say, especially at that age, they will have sex with anything viable, at anytime anywhere with no shame of momentary distraction nor thought of future.



This is ludicrous. Shame never brought anyone knowledge and shame brought upon women for having babies is ridiculous. If bringing a child into the world, even if the father left (which is so many times the case) is shameful, then abortion clinics should be plentiful and not protested and sex education the order of the day. If you think shame should be brought upon pregnant unwed women, especially teens-than you are not Pro-choice, but pro-death of unborn children to single mothers, based on lack of the fathers lack committment and responsability. Its a sad scenario and blame of females has gone too far and too long for unreigned cocks in the hen house.
Again, either we love and support having babies or we do not. Noone seems to be shaming men into keeping their dicks in their pants. Never shall hell freeze over.

If you get pregnant, by Republican/Conservative standards you should: 1. Certainely give birth because abortion is wrong.(IE: alternative being a one time cost of $300) 2. Not expect a dime from the government and negative backlash because you are a sinner who has done the wrong thing in getting pregnant in the first place (lifetime cost). 3. Sorry we didnt educate you on sex, birth control or STD's, we thought it would keep you from 'impure thoughts, sex and having babies'.

Anyone think 'somethings gotta give'?

By conservative standards, Fantasia has chosen to give birth to her baby, not abort. She should be hailed as a bastion for the religious right for doing the right thing. Not that she had any help after the fact. Not that any woman choosing the right thing ever does, in fact she is a worthless mother and a sinner by Republican standards.
Do you all see, it doesnt matter what they choose, they are wrong.
Fantasia and many like her became responsible a single mothers. Should they have aborted or shackled their man to the bed-post?

Lets please reserve a place for these women, and if they sing songs about it, so what?

P.S. What do you want to bet the the father of Fantsia's child is going to sue all too soon for 'rights'?

Oh, Artemise, I know that Andrea Dworkin died this week, but do you really want to take up her male bashing crown of thorns?

I don't think there's anything remotely cool about irresponsible young males running around spreading their seed and fertilizing young women with children they won't take care of. I would never tell my daughter to keep her legs closed while I tell my son to go out, be fruitful and multiply.

You go waaaaay too far in your zeal to make this dilemma a purely politically issue or one where once again the Patriarchy wags a disapproving finger at all those young girls with swollen bellies.

It is shameful to continue the lie that young women are at fault for promiscuity and pregnancy, especially without basic sex education. The very fact that teen women are not educated on sex is a male dominated power play, as who would sex education benefit most?

Oh, spare me. By your thesis, young women bear NO personal responsiblity for their own decisions! I never said women were primarily at fault for promiscuity and pregnancy. But I do think that it still takes "two to tango" here and unless it is a case of rape or incest, the woman still has a central role in deciding to lay down with some loser and have unprotected sex.

Yes, there are some idiot men who still advocate the idea of "keepin' 'em barefoot and pregnant" but Artemise, don't try to sell me on the absurd notion that young girls have NO control over whom they decide to have sexual relations with.

Id like to say something that ALL men know about penises and the sex drive in men, young and old; it is the male drive for constant sex that makes this world turn as it does. This is evident in ultra male issues such as extra-martital sex affairs, the proliferation of pornography, the widespread use of prostitution, strip clubs and massage parlors, as well as the lesser, incest, rape and pedophilia.

Wow. All that happens because of a piece of flesh hanging between a man's legs? Well, I don't want to get into a lengthy sidebar discussion about prostitution, porn and pedophilia because it's off-topic, but I will say this about that. Yes, men are sexist and yes, men do spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about and seeking out sexual gratification. But if there is a demand for sex, why do so many women willingly participate in prostitution, pornography, infidelity and provide the supply? For these horny males there seem to be no shortage of willing female partners.

I don't believe it is as easy and as simple as you make it Artemise to damn men as irresponsible sexually-obsessed creatures while giving a total pass to women who can also be irresponsible and sexually obsessed as well. There is such a thing as a libido for women as well as men, and let us not make the error of thinking that women aren't motivated into liasions with immature and irresponsible males by sexual urges too.

And IF the father of Fantasia's child should make a song called, "Baby Daddy" then I'd be the first to condemn him too.

Uh, excuse me Nightimer? Werent we talking about Fantasia who is a single mom and who is bringing up her child, and who is singing the song? Not her man-husband-parent who is NOT in the picture? As usual the 'someone' taking responsability happens to be the female, in all that hullaballoo about young women bearing "No" responsability. I havent seen other than young women bearing all responsability and men shooting them down for it, when they become successful to boot!

This was not a dilemma to make anyone right, I was simply saying that I didnt think the song was off balance, I didnt think it extolled the virtues of single motherhood but the hardships of it, and as usual for me I dealt with the issues surrounding teen pregnancy. I am a big proponent of sex ed and I think that the conservatives are wrong about this, and I have alot of backround as you well know.
Im talking about sex education, not sexuality. I was on issues not the war of the sexes.

Touchy this morning?

If we want to talk sex, males and females, you know Im open but lets take it to email.



Damn right, and we all know its true. Its a different sort of thing. It is predator to prey, it has little concience, it is even a personality apart from the man who owns it. That is the subject of another and impossible thread, but it is a reality never discussed except in the most closed circles. You cant say that the male teen and the female teen have the same objectives in mind. Sex ed definatively puts the female in a better situational position, otherwise she is in a detrimental position.

You made my point. Are these the people we want raising children?


A mother doing the best she can for the child has nothing to do with being a mother?! I would that that is what being a mother is all about: providing for a child.


My point was this: Even if a single mother is able to provide for her child, then why celebrate the mother's victory? It's about the child. WHat makes the mother a mother? The child.


What I'm saying is that those who have unprotected sex, and decide to keep the baby shouldn't be ashamed about their choice.


Hmm and my age is showing? So now we're advocating unprotected sex? I'm not saying don't keep the baby, thats not it at all. I'm saying don't have sex until your in a relationship that is stable and ready for a child. And if this shows my age then so be it, but I wish you could elaborate on that. Most of my peers sound more like you. Have sex and damn the consequences.


would that that is what being a mother is all about: providing for a child. Moreover "the love and guidance" of a father? hmm...Perhaps the same father that left the mother?------

Yes, once again you made my point. Don't have sex until the relationship is stable and both partners are committed to the fact that they can raise a child. Anything else is a selfish act by the mother and the father.(I'm using those terms loosely)


I'm willing to bet most single mothers don't have a say in whether or not the father sticks around. So don't go blaming mothers for the fact that the father isn't around. Why is it OK to beat-up on single mothers, when we let dead-beat dads off the hook?------

What I'm saying is don't have sex until you know that there will be no single mother. no dead-beat dad. no one is getting off the hook. It takes two to have sex.
And as to how many fathers are out there who want to be involved but can't, I can't give you a number except 1/1. My father. but that is a bit off topic.



This is ridiculous. Your age is showing. The fact is that most people who have sex aren't expecting the consequences, should they just never have sex? Also I would say that "dealing" with the consequence of getting pregnant is giving birth, or are you saying that's not the healthiest way to deal with pregnancy? Science says otherwise.-----

To answer your question, YES!!! how can you even hint at the fact that someone who doesn't expect the consequences and is not ready for them should have sex! I thought that I was still maturing and my peers are immature, bu