Now, I haven't gotten involved too much in the issues regarding Tom Delay and alleged ethics violations, but I've noticed that he has become a familiar firing target for the Democrats and the Left. Now, if the allegations surrounding Delay are found to be true, then he should be punished accordingly.

That being said, why has Delay become such a target when Democratic lawmakers such as Senators Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Harry Reid (D-NV) have acted in manner that is suspect themselves?

In October of 2003, a PAC run by Sen. Pelosi paid a fine levied by the FEC of $21,000 for "improperly accepting donations over federal limits"

In 2002, Sen. Harry Reid introduced the "The Clark County Conservation of Public Land and Natural Resources Act of 2002". The L.A. Times (yes, that L.A. Times) did a piece on Reid and the bill, which it turns out "promised a cavalcade of benefits to real estate developers, corporations and local institutions that were paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in lobbying fees to his sons' and son-in-law's firms", the Times article detailed.

Now, writing and introducing legislation which would benefit family would be a big deal, especially since similar accusations have been made against certain people on the right.

All that said:

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

Should Congress establish clear and concise guidlines and rules regarding campaign finance reform and legislation involving conflicts of interest?

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

It really gets old when someone points the finger at former officials to justify those currently in power. The Republicans are the majority party and I’m sure they would like nothing better than to enhance that power by taking swipes at Sandy Berger, Bill Clinton or whoever it might be. Like so many other things, the answer to this question is that it is a diversionary tactic by Republicans. I'm sure Republicans would absolutely love for the media to shut up and go sit in a corner.

I like the way Paul Levinson put it:

From Tuesday (4-12) Night’s Scarborough Country



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7489822/

Maybe because DeLay's had so many ethics violations, so many of his associates are under indictment and given his position of power...Plus I don't think he's terribly well liked (which shouldn't matter but often DOES). DeLay's a well known bully within his own party, let alone with Dems and he's made ALOT of enemies. I think it's just been a snowball rolling down hill that's finally threatening to mow him down. Other's may well be ethically challenged but his been busted too often and too close together.

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

Let’s compare, shall we?

Nancy Pelosi stopped raising money through the committee a year ago (according to your source), admitted there had been an error and paid her fine…$21,000, right? We’re talking about a grand total of $140 thou or so in donations, right?

As for Reid, no argument, he’s a real piece of work. But why would the Republicans want to make an issue out of it? He’s in a red state, after all.

Then you have DeLay, who hasn’t paid any fines, as far as I can tell. His crimes are far more numerous and egregious. Maybe that’s why the focus is more on him.

So, to review:

Democratic Senator is accused of wrongdoing, checks records, admits wrongdoing, pays fine.

DeLay, accused of wrongdoing numerous times, fires the accusers.

I can’t imagine why the focus would be on poor Mr. DeLay.

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?
You seem to be suggesting that the right wing is simply too gentle, too passive, and too soft-spoken to raise questions about Democrats. Given the treatment of Senator Kerry in the Presidential campaign, I can't help but laugh out loud at your suggestion.

Should Congress establish clear and concise guidlines and rules regarding campaign finance reform and legislation involving conflicts of interest?

Absolutely, positively, YES!!! I would like to see much stricter rules (not guidelines, but rules) about campaign finance. In fact, I'll start a mighty conflagration here by suggesting that only citizens be allowed to make contributions. This would rule out ALL corporate campaign contributions. Which seems only fair: if corporations can't vote, why should they be allowed to influence elections?

I would love if a revolution of taxpayers and voters stood up in outrage at each violation of rules by a politician.

But I am not going to cry crocodile tears while someone is getting investigated and someone else is not.

We should have ethics investigators so that people get caught before someone throws up red flags because the next politician is in a position of prominence.

The politicians win when the lights are out. So do lobbyists who get to use many tricks to reward behavior that supports the cause of individual lobbyists.

But I have no patience for people who respond to accusations by saying that someone else does it too.

The key is to have an internal affairs office for ethics/legal/improprieties and to act on suspicious behavior instead of only responding when a complaint is brought up.

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?


First of all, you are correct it affects both political parties. Delay is at the center of the controversy for one simple reason, he has a BIG MOUTH. If you put yourself out there, someone is going to eventually bring you down. But our problems go far beyond Tom Delay. Right now, he is the media poster boy of everything that is wrong with our government and politicans (both parties) today. Greed, corruption, arrogance, etc.

This isn't so much an issue of whether its hurting the Democratic Party, its hurting the American people. Party loyalists of both parties are too blind to see that their own is hurting this country. What's really interesting about Tom Delay is he isn't ashamed of anything that he did. I'm not talking about criminal activities because that hasn't been legally proven (not yet), but he is truly an unethical man who shouldn't be in the United States Congress. When real Republicans and Democrats who put their country FIRST step up to the plate, we will be able to get rid of these grumpy old men.


Should Congress establish clear and concise guidlines and rules regarding campaign finance reform and legislation involving conflicts of interest?


Yes, yes, and yes. But the problem is both parties are so corrupt they will leave loop holes in any new laws they pass. We have to remember, corporate America and special interest groups have brought our government. The blind party loyalist have to see that the Republican and Democratic parties do not own America, the people do. Bush, Cheney, Delay, Reid, Leiberman, Kerry are all in the same boat as far as I'm concerned.

Why has DeLay become such a hot target? Well, why not? He's such a big, fat, juicy target and the poster child for the ethically challenged. DeLay is as crooked as a dog's back leg. He's made a living being brutally abrasive, ruthless and willing to do whatever it takes to advance the fortunes of the right-wing and himself.

A lot of his own fellow Republicans don't like him and Democrats rightfully hate him. So why should anyone be surprised if DeLay gives his legion of enemies a sword they impale him on it. That's the way of the world and especially the way of the world in Washington. You serve and you get served.

Nice try to flip the script Titus and put the burden on the backs of the Democrats, but the thing is it's the Republicans in complete control in D.C. As I wrote before in the other DeLay thread the argument "everyone else is doing it" isn't a compelling rebuttal when one of your own top guns is in hot water.

Kill all that noise. DeLay is a Big Kahuna and his own arrogance and hubris are what threaten to end his reign prematurely as it did for Bob Livingston, Newt Gingrich, Tony Coehlo, Jim Wright and Dan Rostenkowski.

Oh, and yes Congress should introduce real campaign reform and eliminate conflicts of interest, but its not a priority for Bush, DeLay, Hastert or Frist so it ain't happening.

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

The idealist answer (and arguably right answer): Everyone should be held accountable to the same standards and a violation of ethics is a violation of ethics.

Reality: The reality is that both of the things you just described are common practice in Washington for both parties and simply examples of politicians being politicians. In my opinion 98% to 100% of them are complete crooks if we go strictly by the books, but for some reason everyone tolerates a certain amount of that.

You get noticed when you get a big head, get arrogant and go for too much power and people are going to step up to take you down. It has really been that way for the whole of human history, ever since we invented government. It has happened all through history in our country, it happens in Europe, it happened in Rome.

So let's talk about PAC's here, which is the specific accusation agianst Pelosi in this thread. Given the research I have been doing lately I know a little something about that subject. If you look closely at it you would see that virtually everyone out there operates this way. You would also see that the FEC is a completely worthless and corrupt organization that isn't very good at enforcing their own rules. You'll also find a lot of practices out there like PAC chaining where one PAC gives to another who gives to another etc, so you don't know the ultimate recipient. The longest chain out there is something like 76 PACs. Think about why someone would go to that trouble for a minute or two. It gets even more murky when you start factoring in PACs that don't belong to politicians.

Regarding the comments on Reid it is a little something called corporate pork and everyone does it. Politicians on both sides of the aisle get millions of dollars a year from corporations and that money doesn't come free. There is an expectation for beneficial legislation and votes on certain issues. They carve out millions of dollars in the budget for their home state and for their sponsors. The fact that Reid has a family relation here is really immaterial, it is just another reason that corporation should benefit from pork spending.

Now don't get me wrong, neither of those two practices are right. However, if you go around yelling about all the violations by members of Congress you aren't ever going to start yelling and eventually no one will be listening because you are now just background noise. The realist approach is to save your outrage for practices that cross the line and are truely worthy of getting into an uproar about. That is the only way you'll ever change things.

So why Tom DeLay? Well there is another thread discussing that so I won't (and shouldn't) get into it here. However, it is increasingly looking like he is in fact guilty of exactly what he was railing against in the late 80's and early 90's in the Democratic ranks. Because he has arrogantly tried to gain more and more power he is finally a big enough target for someone to want to take him down, that is how the game is played every day in Washington.

Will this come back to hurt the Democrats? No it won't, the cycle will simply continue. As I stated (and have quoted in the other DeLay thread) DeLay was railing against ethical violations by the Democrats in the late 80's and early 90's when they were in power. The people that had gotten to powerful were booted out and eventually the majority shifted. Now the Republicans are in power and guess who is guilty now? In 10 years it'll be some Republican in power railing against the Democrats again and the cycle will repeat ad nauseum.

This will never stop until the whole country decides to wake up and expect more from their leaders. But I think that pigs have a better chance of learning to fly before that happens.

Should Congress establish clear and concise guidlines and rules regarding campaign finance reform and legislation involving conflicts of interest?
There already are clear and concise guidlines for campaign reform - that is the reason the FEC exists. The problem is that the FEC is completely inept and often times doesn't even do its job. There are also huge gaping loopholes in campaign finance law - namely regulations governing spending by 527 and 501©4 groups.

What needs to be done here first and foremost is the FEC needs to actually do their job. Secondly we need to close a few loopholes in the laws.

Given that politicians (which benefit from the inefficiency of the FEC and the loopholes) have to make those reforms, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

It is the arrogance of power. All authority is an attribute of power. To be used justly, authority must be granted and not assumed, for all power rests with the people. A despot’s authority is tenuous for it is a usurpation and not a representation of the public will. Likewise, all excess in the exercise of authority is an abuse of power.

Tom DeLay is a political tyrant. He has acted in a manner that is inconsistent with his oath of office to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and actively sought to subvert the principles of the separation of powers upon which our government was instituted. He has flaunted his excesses in the face of public censure, for he knows that he can get away with it. Will Tom DeLay hurt the Democtatic Party? Yes, if they don't act to rid the Congress of this menace.

Should Congress establish clear and concise guidlines and rules regarding campaign finance reform and legislation involving conflicts of interest?

Indeed! Campaign finance reform just needs some more money to make it work.

I would have to agree. If you campaign on ethics, then get caught with your own pants down, it simply doesn't enable anyone to come to your aid...especially when you've burned most of the bridges they would need to cross to get there. Do I think there's a witch-hunt going on on the Democratic side? Certainly. Delay is a big fish. At best, I could only argue that his arrogance allows him to continue to act in a manner that encourages such charges...hardly the place anyone with political ambitions would want to draw their own line in the sand.



Again, I would agree. The question is...why do we tolerate it? The answer to that is that most voters put politics ahead of ethics, which then encourages our politicians to do the same. If we don't demand ethical behaviour....we won't get it. So, when when of 'your own' behaves unethically, don't stand for it. I would further argue that this is even more important for conservatives, as they are the ones frequently trumpeting this very issue. You can't walk that walk unless you're pretty squeaky clean yourself. At the very least, Delay seems to frequently get in the mud.

I believe you asked the trillion dollar question Hobbes, Why do we tolerate it?
This is where the American people as whole need to take responsibilty of who they vote for to take office in the Congress or Executive branch. Politics indeed is always put first among everything which clouds the judgement of many lawmakers when dealing with a difficult issue.

If one lawmaker decides to side with his party on a vote simply because he needs money for his campiagn to run for re-election or have his party support in the primaries, what good does it do for his constituents? We have let this problem go on for far too long and something must be done before the divisions in this country tear us apart. We can all have different views on many issues, but can we do it in a civil manner while being respectful of one's opinions.

[b]Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

I agree with most of your points, as this is a general trend among politicians on both sides, however, I think DeLays actions are especially egregious, because:

(1) He generally talks of morality and claims his base as the Christian Conservatives on one hand, and takes lobbyist money from the Sex Tourism industry on the other hand.

(2) He deliberately does things unethically in order to retain and gain power for Republicans as their leader. i.e. illegal redistricting, bribing for votes, and overusing influence to change rules that don't go his way.

Believe me, that politicians of both parties tend to sway their votes towards the dollars of lobbyists and have some unethical tendencies. However, it isn't very often that you see Democrats say they are pro-gun control and then find out that they are on the payroll for the NRA.

Why is there such a focus on Tom Delay and not a relative whisper when it comes to Democrats who's actions look and in some cases have been proven suspect? Will this come back and hurt the Democratic Party?

Well, he deserves to be the center of focus, by his actions. As a Republican who sees the party heading far to the right and leaving me behind, I am joining with the Democrats in hoping he gets canned soon. I will do the same for all whose ethics are situational.

Should Congress establish clear and concise guidlines and rules regarding campaign finance reform and legislation involving conflicts of interest?

Who will do this? A bunch of lawyers? Surely they will build in back doors, escape clauses, etc. It has been quoted often that the love of money is the root of all evil, but I think that the love of power is even more dangerous.

If Tom DeLay had been around in 1927, then Sinclair Lewis could have used DeLay as a model for his classic work on hypocrisy rather than inventing the fictional Elmer Gantry.

I like reading about DeLay in the morning paper. Night readings tend to send me in a dash to the nearest convenience store in a fit of dyspepsia for a bottle of Maalox.

One of the more enjoyable commentators on DeLay is Texas’ own Molly Ivins. In yesterday’s Fort Worth Star Telegram she wrote:



http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/columnists...ns/11450765.htm

And someone asks why DeLay is focus of ethics investigations?

As soon as DeLay is out of office, I’m going to start accepting donations for erection of a new monument at the U. S. Capital—“Tom DeLay National Hypocrite."