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America's Debate > Archive > Policy Debate Archive > [A] Domestic Policy
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Lin731
Apparently the Federal government will be handing out 1 billion in tax payer funds to states that have been hard hit with the costs of providing free healthcare to illegal aliens. The reasoning behind this move being that we need to provide healthcare to illegals to prevent the spread of communicable diseases such as TB that could spread to a wider population and that providing care (in general terms) to the sick and injured is simply the right thing, the humanitarian thing to do.

Question:

Given that we have 40 plus million Americans with NO healthcare coverage at all, do you believe this is a prudent use of our tax dollars? If so, please explain why. If you don't feel it is a prudent use of taxpayer dollars, how would you address the issue of disease control/prevention to protect the general population?
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Hobbes
QUOTE(Lin731 @ May 10 2005, 08:13 AM)
Apparently the Federal government will be handing out 1 billion in tax payer funds to states that have been hard hit with the costs of providing free healthcare to illegal aliens. The reasoning behind this move being that we need to provide healthcare to illegals to prevent the spread of communicable diseases such as TB that could spread to a wider population and that providing care (in general terms) to the sick and injured is simply the right thing, the humanitarian thing to do.

Question:

Given that we have 40 plus million Americans with NO healthcare coverage at all, do you believe this is a prudent use of our tax dollars? If so, please explain why. If you don't feel it is a prudent use of taxpayer dollars, how would you address the issue of disease control/prevention to protect the general population?

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I'm not really sure why we keep having this issue. These people are here illegally, right? So, why don't we provide them with free transportation back home? Honestly, I think we lose site of the 'illegal' part of illegal immigrants. Let's put this in perspective. Wouldn't this be the exact same discussion as providing free healthcare to criminals (also illegals) which we wouldn't provide to law abiding citizens? Why isnt' there a movement for that (the answer being, of course, that criminal don't carry many votes, while minorities do). If the issue is spreading communicable diseases, why would we stop at our borders? Shouldn't we then be providing this free service across the world, as our citizens travel everywhere, and could catch diseases anywhere and bring them back here? The humanitarian aspect exacerbates this angle. One would quickly get to us distributing money across the world until equilibrium was reached..essentially draining us of our wealth to elevate others. As is my stance on most government expenditures of this type...I struggle enough to provide for my own family. I don't have the resources to take care of others, too. I certainly don't need the government mandating such charity for me...I'm fully capable of deciding how much, and where, I'd like to commit my money to such ventures on my own. Why should my daughter suffer so that people we've never even met, and shouldn't be here to begin with, can be provided services we don't have access to ourselves? I'm struggling with how to pay my own medical bills currently, and I'm here legally...are the countries these people came from, or these people themselves, doing anything to help me out? No, they're not. Here's the real question, politics aside. If they're here illegally, and they have a dangerous communicable disease, why are we allowing them to stay?
Lin731
QUOTE
I'm not really sure why we keep having this issue. These people are here illegally, right? So, why don't we provide them with free transportation back home? Honestly, I think we lose site of the 'illegal' part of illegal immigrants. Let's put this in perspective. Wouldn't this be the exact same discussion as providing free healthcare to criminals (also illegals) which we wouldn't provide to law abiding citizens? Why isnt' there a movement for that (the answer being, of course, that criminal don't carry many votes, while minorities do). If the issue is spreading communicable diseases, why would we stop at our borders? Shouldn't we then be providing this free service across the world, as our citizens travel everywhere, and could catch diseases anywhere and bring them back here? The humanitarian aspect exacerbates this angle. One would quickly get to us distributing money across the world until equilibrium was reached..essentially draining us of our wealth to elevate others. As is my stance on most government expenditures of this type...I struggle enough to provide for my own family. I don't have the resources to take care of others, too. I certainly don't need the government mandating such charity for me...I'm fully capable of deciding how much, and where, I'd like to commit my money to such ventures on my own. Why should my daughter suffer so that people we've never even met, and shouldn't be here to begin with, can be provided services we don't have access to ourselves? I'm struggling with how to pay my own medical bills currently, and I'm here legally...are the countries these people came from, or these people themselves, doing anything to help me out? No, they're not. Here's the real question, politics aside. If they're here illegally, and they have a dangerous communicable disease, why are we allowing them to stay?


Believe me Hobbs, I don't understand the logic here either. We have citizens patrolling our borders trying to keep illegals from crossing into the US while our government rolls out the welcome mat for illegal aliens via Visiting Workers Visa's (nice reward for breaking US laws don't you think), student aid for illegal immigrants to attend our colleges (at lower costs than outstate American students get) and now 1 billion for free healthcare while 40 plus million Americans have no health insurance at all. Oh and the BEST part, if they live and work here illegally for long enough, they qualify for SS benefits! What a slap in the face to US tax payers. Personally I think that money would be better spent actually ENFORCING our immigration laws, be it in the form of more officers patrolling the borders or more US immigration officers deporting illegal aliens in our cities and towns. You'll find cities and small towns all across the US teaming with illegal aliens and law enforcement/US Immigration officers seem unwilling or unable to round them up and kick them out.

As for the communicable disease angle, hard to control THAT problem when you have millions flooding across our borders illegally.
deerjerkydave
If American politicians cared, they could halt the influx of illegal immegrants in a heartbeat. The Minuteman project proved that.

Free healthcare for people who entered U.S. territory illegally only exacerbates the problem. Hobbes is correct, the only fair solution is to deport them, with a reminder that there are proper legal channels for immigrating to America.
Lin731
QUOTE
If American politicians cared, they could halt the influx of illegal immegrants in a heartbeat. The Minuteman project proved that.

Free healthcare for people who entered U.S. territory illegally only exacerbates the problem. Hobbes is correct, the only fair solution is to deport them, with a reminder that there are proper legal channels for immigrating to America.


That's precisely the problem and I want to know why our politicians DON'T care to stop it? Cheap labor for big business? Minority pandering for votes? Whatever the reason, I think the American people are increasingly fed up with this turn-a-blind-eye, Welcome Wagon policy we have in place.

As for their medical treatment...Perhaps we need to deliver the BILL for their medical care to the Mexican government? Since it seems clear they are doing LESS than nothing to discourage this illegal behavior on the part of their citizens.
entspeak
Question:

Given that we have 40 plus million Americans with NO healthcare coverage at all, do you believe this is a prudent use of our tax dollars? If so, please explain why. If you don't feel it is a prudent use of taxpayer dollars, how would you address the issue of disease control/prevention to protect the general population?


Being one of those 40 plus million, I certainly feel the same regarding the doling out of free healthcare to aliens. If illegal aliens are going to be allowed to work in this country, they certainly should have access to healthcare, but I should not be expected to pay for their healthcare when I can get none of my own.

Regarding the protection of the general population from communicable diseases: many countries will not allow you in if you have a communicable disease. Those applying for visiting work visas should be tested for disease, if it is found, they should be deported immediately. This sounds inhumane, but there are many American citizens without healthcare, if the government is unwilling to spend tax payer dollars to provide me -- a citizen -- with healthcare, it certainly shouldn't be spending tax payer dollars to provide healthcare for illegal immigrants. If the government was concerned with the spread of disease to the general population, it would provide healthcare for the general population.
aevans176
QUOTE(entspeak @ May 11 2005, 08:23 AM)
Being one of those 40 plus million, I certainly feel the same regarding the doling out of free healthcare to aliens.  If illegal aliens are going to be allowed to work in this country, they certainly should have access to healthcare, but I should not be expected to pay for their healthcare when I can get none of my own.

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The only problem with this argument is that as of right now, we're only providing emergency healthcare to said Aliens. It's not like they can get teeth cleaning or reading glasses on the US Tax payer's dollar.

That being said, what people are suggesting here is to let the Aliens die. Being a staunch republican, I have a hard time even swallowing that. The whole reason they came here was to have a better life. What I would suggest is that we use this healthcare system to document the aliens, and force them to become citizens and pay taxes, etc.

I believe that being American means that even the poor people in our nation have automobiles and microwaves... if not cable TV and Nikes on their feet. Even Europeans can't say that... much less people in Asia or Africa. With these luxuries, I believe, comes some responsibility.

I'm not saying that we ought to open the doors to the hospitals,etc. I just can't see not providing life saving medical care to people in need, regardless of citizenship.
Hobbes
QUOTE(aevans176 @ May 11 2005, 08:31 AM)
The only problem with this argument is that as of right now, we're only providing emergency healthcare to said Aliens. It's not like they can get teeth cleaning or reading glasses on the US Tax payer's dollar.

That being said, what people are suggesting here is to let the Aliens die.


I understand this sentiment, aevans, but I think what's being suggested is to send them back home. I would add that everyone already has access to emergency healthcare....people aren't refused service at the emergency room. The problem, I suspect, is that this clogs the emergency room with non-emergency service, which is where the added costs come in. So, one aspect of this bill (which is also an factor in providing health care to everyone) is that there are savings to be obtained in providing non-emergency room access to those who have no current alternatives.

QUOTE
Being a staunch republican, I have a hard time even swallowing that. The whole reason they came here was to have a better life.


Yes....but should I have to pay for it?

QUOTE
I believe that being American means that even the poor people in our nation have automobiles and microwaves... if not cable TV and Nikes on their feet.


...see above.

QUOTE
I'm not saying that we ought to open the doors to the hospitals,etc. I just can't see not providing life saving medical care to people in need, regardless of citizenship.
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Two points. First, they already have access to life saving medical care....just not necessarily in a cost effective manner. However, the bigger issue is that if you start providing illegals with free medical care....care they wouldn't receive in their own country, this will just encourage more illegals to come. Further, those most likely to come would then be the very ones with the medical conditions we are supposedly trying to eliminate. So, in essence, we'd just be wasting our money, and making the problem worse.

So, this issue really has nothing to do with communicable diseases, or access to emergency health-care. What it does have to do with is politicians pandering to the minority vote, where such issues hold a lot of sway. How well do you think the 'let's get rid of all the illegals' platform would do in California, or Texas? Once again, its politicians using our money to buy them votes. Buying votes is bad enough....but its especially irritating when its my money they're using to do it.
aevans176
QUOTE(Hobbes @ May 11 2005, 09:44 AM)
I understand this sentiment, aevans, but I think what's being suggested is to send them back home.  I would add that everyone already has access to emergency healthcare....people aren't refused service at the emergency room.  The problem, I suspect, is that this clogs the emergency room with non-emergency service, which is where the added costs come in.  So, one aspect of this bill (which is also an factor in providing health care to everyone) is that there are savings to be obtained in providing non-emergency room access to those who have no current alternatives.


The only problem with your argument (as it mirrors that of many, regardless of political affiliation) is that if we're talking about sending illegals home, then maybe we should spend more money on border patrol, more money on INS staffing, and then less illegal aliens would be wasting our tax dollars. Wasting tax dollars in more ways than simply health care.

Pandering the minorty vote is a political specialty. Frankly, every politician since the inception of politics has catered to someone simply on the basis of gaining their votes. I don't see that one going away, especially because the hispanic vote has become the largest swing component of our political landscape.

If we were concerned with deporting illegal aliens as a general rule, the process would not be difficult to do. We could target industries that cater to such aliens, and easily deport them. Being from Texas. I think I could find a handful in the next 30 minutes all by my lonesome....
greyparrot
"Apparently the Federal government will be handing out 1 billion in tax payer funds to states that have been hard hit with the costs of providing free healthcare to illegal aliens."

This is nothing short of treason, as far as I am concerned! Here is why:

2 years ago, after working 19 years for a big name travel agency I, along with 200+ other corporate travel associates were laid off. One of my biggest concerns was the loss of my health insurance, as I was a 38 year old female with a family history of breast cancer. I also had a mortage and only modest savings (I had used most of it as the down payment on my home a few years earlier). The cost of COBRA was astronomical...almost as much as my mortgage payment, so I chose my home over my health..and prayed. Despite the fact that I have a degree, and my only critera was modest pay with a decent health insurance plan, it took no less than 10 months of dogged searching to secure employment.

What is my point you ask?

Had ANYTHING happened to me within those 10 months that required moderate/major health care (cancer, auto accident, ebola) my uninsured *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** would have been on the hook to PAY UP as long as I had assets! Indeed, my inability to pay would have led to liens against my home and/or 401k, no matter the fact that it could have left me penniless and homeless...despite years & years of contributing to the tax base.

Again, I submit that ANY appointed U.S. leader that fails to address (or turns a blind eye) to ANY known illegal activity that has a negative affect on his/her constituents, is a TRAITOR..in every sense of the word.

Greyparrot
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