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America's Debate > Archive > Assorted Issues Archive > [A] Science and Technology > [A] Health and Medicine
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yehoshua
In America, disease such as polio, malaria, leprosy were a thing of the past. Most medical students only learned about these disease through text books; however, since 1997 there has been a steady increase of these disease according to the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons recent article titled Illegal Aliens and American Medicine.

According to the study, many illegals entering this country have tuberculosis. "That disease had largely disappeared from America, thanks to excellent hygiene and powerful modern drugs such as isoniazid and rifampin. TB's swift, deadly return now is lethal for about 60% of those infected because of new Multi-Drug Resistant Tuberculosis (MDR-TB). Until recently, MDR-TB was endemic to Mexico. This tuberculosis is resistant to at least two major anti-tubercular drugs. Ordinary TB usually is cured in six months with four drugs that cost about $2,000. MDR-TB takes 24 months with many expensive drugs that cost around $250,000 with toxic side effects. Each illegal with MDR-TB coughs and infects 10 to 30 people, who will not show symptoms immediately. Latent disease explodes later."

America's "must treat everyone" policy has lead to the closure of 84 California hospitals according to the Journal. The study fines that these hospitals are closing their doors as a direct result of the rising number of illegal aliens who are unable to pay for their medical bills.

In the report, Cosman says, "Anchor babies, born to illegal aliens instantly qualify as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused enormous rises in Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental Security Income and Disability Income."

In addition, the report says, "many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease."

So we as Americans are left with three major problems as a direct results of our governments lack of ability to stop illegal immigration:
  1. Closure of Hospitals
  2. Anchor Babies
  3. Disease
The report concludes with the following actions be taken in order to secure the health and safety of Americas:
  1. Closing America's borders with fences, high-tech security devices and troops.
  2. Rescinding the U.S. citizenship of "anchor babies." (the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution)
  3. Punishing the aiding and abetting of illegal aliens as a crime.
  4. An end to amnesty programs.
QUESTIONS:
  1. Is the study accurate, or are the other studies that show the increase in 'dead' disease is caused by source other than illegals?
  2. Do you agree with the list of 'major' problems facing American's listed above? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.
  3. Do you agree with the reports conclusion to securing the health and safety of Americans? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.
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Paladin Elspeth
Is the study accurate, or are the other studies that show the increase in 'dead' disease is caused by source other than illegals?

Do you agree with the list of 'major' problems facing American's listed above? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.

Do you agree with the reports conclusion to securing the health and safety of Americans? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.


I am a fan of Lou Dobbs and his crusade against governmental neglect of our borders, but to attribute our nation's current health status solely to the problem of illegal immigration and anchor babies is to willfully turn a blind eye to the woefully inadequate health care for the poor citizens of this country.

As long as those in power are willing to view health insurance coverage of the disadvantaged as somebody else's problem and those who are in need as just S.O.L. (out of luck for our foreign readers), the United States will continue to have diseases stemming from poverty; regardless of who is coming across our borders.

I cannot understand Vicenzo Fox's bald encouragement of Mexicans streaming into the United States. What happened to the great things that NAFTA was going to do? Didn't our companies outsource all kinds of jobs to Mexico? Wasn't that supposed to buoy up their economy and raise their standard of living? And yet, the fruit pickers continue to sneak in.

Yes, the immigration laws need to be changed. But so too must the assumption that health care is somehow for the privileged; but the poor, citizen or illegal, can suffer and die without any responsibility accepted on the part of our government.

(Edit: Just wait until we start getting the Bird Flu from Asia. unsure.gif )
Amlord
PE,

Diseases such as TB do not simply re-appear out of thin air. If the disease has been wiped out in the US, being poor will not cause a fresh case to spring up.

I do think that disease is one of many issues which center around the illegal immigration debate. Since these migrants are illegal, they cannot be screened for potentially deadly diseases when entering the country.

Health care in this country is already skyrocketing due to the "treat everything" mindset. There are some things that need to be treated and others which should run their course. Adding a new list of deadly pathogens to the environment does no one any good.
smorpheus
Wow, to assert that our healthcare problems are caused by immigrants. How could we possibly have an easier scape goat? A population who doesn't even speak English, has no economic influence in our society, and are the labor-class in our great state of CA. What a dream proposition: Poor Health Care in America can be solved by closing our borders!!

This report is tremendously biased Yenoshua, and even the slightest investigation of the sources raises suspicion. The '84 hopsitals' closed statistic is cited to an LA Times article which states clearly in the title "J-R. Hawthorne Hospital to shut doors. R.F. Kennedy Medical Center cites financial problems for closure…sixth ER in LA County this
year." Unfortunately, the article is not available on the Time's website. Certainly the corralation between hospitals closing has nothing to do with the dozens of non-immigrant related factors such as corruption, accounting, bad business practices, etc, etc.

Using the Cato Institute, an organization committed to conservative/libertarian causes as a source for statistics does not further the argument, but instead detracts from it. The Cato Insititute, like all other organizations in it's class, routinely distorts statistics for their own causes.

I would be truly embarressed if I was a member of the "scientific" organization that published this article masquerading as an objective analysis to cover for an ethnophobic perspective.

QUOTE
Aiding and abetting illegal aliens is a crime.  Punish it.  This will anger devotees of illegal aliens who believe the Consitution guarantees them civil rights that trump American administrative, civil, and criminal laws.


WOW, has hatred for Illegal immigrants evolved to this? Didn't you people see Day Without a Mexican?!

Umm.. The articles goes on to appear to suggest that health professionals should be denying a dying immigrant child emergency health attendence. I'm sorry, but what exactly is the solution here? Turn our backs on men, women, and children who are dying within our borders? That's not only against the basic moral structure of our society (frightneningly, the article claims this is in essence defending America), but is about as morally abhorrent of a thing to do as I can imagine in facing this problem.

1. Is the study accurate, or are the other studies that show the increase in 'dead' disease is caused by source other than illegals?

This question is incoherent, you may want to edit it. This article is written entirely to propel forward an ideology, and has no more grounding in reality than your average conservative op-ed piece.

2. Do you agree with the list of 'major' problems facing American's listed above? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.

ANCHOR BABIES does not make my list of a major problem facing Americans. I mean that's laughable. As to the other two. They may be major problems to some people, but neither of them are going to break the top 25 of major American Issues anytime soon.

3. Do you agree with the reports conclusion to securing the health and safety of Americans? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.

Actually, my reading is that the report's conclusion is to systematically have health care professionals denying access to health care to uninsured clients who have brown skin and no license. This literally turns my stomach. Suggesting securing our borders is one thing, suggesting that allowing people to die in America is the moral perogative is completely and utterly different.
Just Leave me Alone!
Is the study accurate, or are the other studies that show the increase in 'dead' disease is caused by source other than illegals?
It seems accurate. Although Smorpheus has already pointed out some propaganda within the facts, there is nothing that makes me believe that illegals are not the main cause of dead diseases arising in the US.

Do you agree with the list of 'major' problems facing American's listed above? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.
They are all problems, but closing of hospitals is the major problem here. The other two are just a few of the causes for the hospitals running out of money.

Do you agree with the reports conclusion to securing the health and safety of Americans? Why or why not? To which item(s) do you agree/disagree.

1) Closing America's borders with fences, high-tech security devices and troops.
Maybe. How much would something like that cost? Why spend a ton of money to keep people out of the land of opportunity if it is more expensive than the problems of letting them in?

2) Rescinding the U.S. citizenship of "anchor babies." (the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution)
NO! News flash, 99% of the US population has someone in their history that was an immigrant. At least one of your parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents, etc. was an "anchor baby". If you want to drop the 14th Amendment, make sure that you go back to your original country too.

3) Punishing the aiding and abetting of illegal aliens as a crime.
Yes. I actually thought they did this already. Treat it like speeding, it's a crime - here is your fine.

4) An end to amnesty programs.
Amnesty programs would clean this up wouldn't they? If you have amnesty, you are not afraid to go and get your shots.
Paladin Elspeth
QUOTE(Amlord @ May 24 2005, 02:30 PM)
PE,

Diseases such as TB do not simply re-appear out of thin air.  If the disease has been wiped out in the US, being poor will not cause a fresh case to spring up.

I do think that disease is one of many issues which center around the illegal immigration debate.  Since these migrants are illegal, they cannot be screened for potentially deadly diseases when entering the country.

Health care in this country is already skyrocketing due to the "treat everything" mindset.  There are some things that need to be treated and others which should run their course.  Adding a new list of deadly pathogens to the environment does no one any good.
*



Amlord,

It's already happening. Do you presume to think that it isn't spreading among the poor already? At that point, it doesn't matter so much where the disease came from as it does how to treat it and make our population healthier once again.

How many sick immigrants came through Ellis Island? We'll never know.

Health care is skyrocketing because of misuse or overuse of antibiotics, I'll grant you that. But it is also skyrocketing because primary, prevention-based health care is not provided for all, so secondary and tertiary treatment become the order of the day.

We can either pay for emergency room visits by the indigent, or we can recognize that we are all affected by illnesses, rich or poor; and it is time that basic health care be afforded (a little less to spend on weapons, thank you very much) to all, because it is coming out of your pocketbook anyway.

And it's not all the fault of the brown, red or yellow-skinned people who sneak into the country. If you think our health statistics are right on, you probably also believe the census reports. rolleyes.gif You only become part of the statistics if you end up seeing a doctor. For many, it's the coroner.

I'm just saying, sure, make the immigration laws stricter. Hell, we could use the jobs here in Michigan! But remember that we had a problem with sick people before the latest influx of illegal immigrants, and we will continue to unless we either set the infirm out on ice floes en masse or determine to provide health coverage for all so these diseases don't run rampant.
yehoshua
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ May 24 2005, 03:42 PM)
But remember that we had a problem with sick people before the latest influx of illegal immigrants...
*


We didn't have a problem with malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease. I mean really these disease were 'dead' disease in the US. According to the article:
QUOTE
TB was virtually absent inVirginia until in 2002, when it spiked a 17 percent increase, but Prince William County, just south of Washington, D.C., had a much larger rise of 188 percent. Public health officials blamed immigrants. In 2001 the Indiana School of Medicine studied an outbreak of MDR-TB, and traced it to Mexican illegal aliens. The Queens, New York, health department attributed 81 percent of new TB cases in 2001 to immigrants. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ascribed 42 percent of all new TB cases to "foreign born" people who have up to eight times higher incidence. Apparently, 66 percent of all TB cases coming to America originate in Mexico, the Philippines, and Vietnam.


And even in your home state of Michigan:
QUOTE
Virulent TB (Chinese version of MDR-TB) outbreaks afflicted school teachers and
children in Michigan, adults and children in Texas, and policemen in Minnesota. Recently TB erupted in Portland, Maine, and Del Rey Beach, Florida.


Furthermore you asked:
QUOTE
How many sick immigrants came through Ellis Island? We'll never know.
You are right, we may never know. However, we do know that, unlike today's illegal immigration process of crossing the border where ever an opening occurs, Ellis Island had a strict health inspection that lead many immigrants to be quarantine for illness know to examine physicians and later sent back on to the country of origin.

As outlined in the article:
QUOTE
When my grandfather came to America, he first kissed the ground of New York's Ellis Island, then he stripped naked and coughed hard. Every legal immigrant before 1924 was examined for infectious diseases upon arrival and tested for tuberculosis.  Anyone infected was shipped back to the old country. That was powerful incentive for each newcomer to make heroic efforts to appear healthy.  Today, immigrants must demonstrate that they are free of communicable diseases and drug addiction to qualify for lawful permanent residency green cards.  Illegal aliens simply cross
our borders medically unexamined, hiding in their bodies any
number of communicable diseases.


Granted this is not the end all be all to fixing the health care problems in the US; however, it does stand as a fair warning to people who deal with illegal immigrants on a daily bases, that these people may have some harsh and exotic diseases such as leprosy and plague.

Just the simple fact that school teachers and students in your very state are coming down with a MDR-TB so advance that it will cost them $250,000 (see my first post) to cure, should be warning enough that stricter regulations are required in our health care system.
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